Mezametara Saikyou Soubi to Uchuusenmochi Datta node, Ikkodate Mezashite Youhei toshite Jiyuu ni Ikitai - Vol. 7 Ch. 36.2

[Hocbobby]

At this point, what's stopping them from making a heavily shielded torpedo which is used to quickly eliminate high priority target?

 

[KnightSpark]

Show of hands: who else has gotten flashbacks of trying to play mahjong in Yakuza/Like a Dragon and utterly failing?

 

[IvanDFakkov]

ship porn, ship porn

Jokes on you, I'm into Arpeggio, Kancolle, Azur Lane and Warship Girls.

 

[Arcara]

Well no space opera is complete without inner ship melee action

Boarding ship is a well worn trope in scifi tho, 40k has one for each spaceborne civilization, Lensman series, LOGH, but sadly no Stellaris (yet)

 

[BlackAeronaut]

If the uncle can assassinate the count and Chris and clean up the mess later, the count can clean it up later as well, since he'll have no trouble finding out the connections later on.

The Imperial fleet was unresponsive and let that ship in without firing a shot.

If you can't wrap your head around the count playing military and politics the way the uncle does, I suppose there's no helping you, either.

Wait wait wait....

I think I see what's going on now. This whole time I've been talking battlefield tactics and rules of engagement, and you've been talking politics and diplomacy, right?

(Dude, they are entirely separate things. Though politics does have its own form of tactics and strategy, that's not the same thing as battlefield tactics. That's like comparing Machiavelli's The Prince to Sun Tzu's The Art of War - they do belong on the same book shelf, but they cover entirely different topics.)

As such, I suspect that you may have been getting caught up in how Nobles in this setting are seemingly portrayed as being all-powerful. And as such, I take it that you're assuming that the Count doesn't have to answer to anyone, am I right?

Well, here's the thing.

HE'S A FUCKING COUNT.

HE DOES HAVE TO ANSWER TO OTHER PEOPLE.

Refer to this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial,_royal_and_noble_ranks

You see that? He's got at least two noble ranks above his head (three if this empire uses the Grand/Arch Duke title, which I'm betting it does because it's an "Empire" and not a "Kingdom" - YES THERE IS A DIFFERENCE), and that's not even getting into the Royalty. Though more often than not, the children of royalty are usually granted Ducal titles or, for the crown prince(ess) ("crown" here meaning they're next in line for the throne), then they could have the title of Grand/Arch Duke.

What does this mean?

No matter what, this Count cannot go firing on other Imperial ships unless he has reason to do so that is absolutely clear and utterly unmistakable. And while failing to render assistance to the Count is a serious foul, it's not serious enough to warrant the Count's ships firing on other Imperial warships.

And before you say that these ships belong to the Uncle...

...At what point was it mentioned that in the previous incidents that those ships had been under the command of said Uncle?

That's where you have the Uncle's plausible deniability. These ships all belong to other noble lords. And through some means of subterfuge, bribery, or even blackmail, the Uncle has managed to get them roped into this.

And before you can say that the Count himself can play the same game with plausible deniability? He can't. And that is precisely because the Uncle is not using his own ships, he's using the ships of other nobles.

To put this into perspective, to an outside observer it would be like as if two people were driving down the same road in separate cars, and then suddenly one got t-boned by someone else in an intersection. What would it look like to the outside observer if the guy who got hit suddenly got out of their car with a gun and started shooting up the other guy's car? Just because he was there and didn't do anything to stop the other car?

THAT'S THE TRAP.

That means that the Count just can't wave a magic wand and say, "Oh, it must have been some kind of tragic accident" or some other BS. Because then the other nobles will be taking it up the to the next higher noble, or even all the way up to the Throne itself, screaming bloody murder about how this guy just fucking shot up their fleet of ships.

No, he cannot just sweep this under the rug. He cannot just hide it. Because if he tried to, then that means that somebody (or several somebodies) will have just lost a whole bunch of men and ships, and that will demand answers to some very hard questions. And no, it doesn't matter if the Count is in the so-called "Right" just because his ship has been attacked by a single, unknown, unregistered, never-before-seen type and class of ship that is flying no colors, no flags, and no identification.

This is because the Count cannot say, "Well it's obvious this unknown ship is part of their group." Because then the other nobles will go, "Are you fucking braindead? We have no idea where the hell that ship even came from!" And yes, that argument will fly because, unless evidence of the bribery, blackmail, and/or subterfuge turns up, then the investigators would have nothing to trump their word. Just like what happened in the previous incident on the vacation world.

Now, are we clear as to why it is a very very VERY bad idea for the Count's ships to just go firing on other Imperial warships all willy nilly?

 

[GrimGriefer]

They should have used Jeff Bezos' spaceship design for that ramming ship.
Missed opportunity...

 

[ForTheJerusalem]

The little cat girl got penetrated!

 

[electro_neanderthal]

Wait wait wait....

I think I see what's going on now. This whole time I've been talking battlefield tactics and rules of engagement, and you've been talking politics and diplomacy, right?

(Dude, they are entirely separate things. Though politics does have its own form of tactics and strategy, that's not the same thing as battlefield tactics. That's like comparing Machiavelli's The Prince to Sun Tzu's The Art of War - they do belong on the same book shelf, but they cover entirely different topics.)

As such, I suspect that you may have been getting caught up in how Nobles in this setting are seemingly portrayed as being all-powerful. And as such, I take it that you're assuming that the Count doesn't have to answer to anyone, am I right?

Well, here's the thing.

HE'S A FUCKING COUNT.

HE DOES HAVE TO ANSWER TO OTHER PEOPLE.

Refer to this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial,_royal_and_noble_ranks

You see that? He's got at least two noble ranks above his head (three if this empire uses the Grand/Arch Duke title, which I'm betting it does because it's an "Empire" and not a "Kingdom" - YES THERE IS A DIFFERENCE), and that's not even getting into the Royalty. Though more often than not, the children of royalty are usually granted Ducal titles or, for the crown prince(ess) ("crown" here meaning they're next in line for the throne), then they could have the title of Grand/Arch Duke.

What does this mean?

No matter what, this Count cannot go firing on other Imperial ships unless he has reason to do so that is absolutely clear and utterly unmistakable. And while failing to render assistance to the Count is a serious foul, it's not serious enough to warrant the Count's ships firing on other Imperial warships.

And before you say that these ships belong to the Uncle...

...At what point was it mentioned that in the previous incidents that those ships had been under the command of said Uncle?

That's where you have the Uncle's plausible deniability. These ships all belong to other noble lords. And through some means of subterfuge, bribery, or even blackmail, the Uncle has managed to get them roped into this.

And before you can say that the Count himself can play the same game with plausible deniability? He can't. And that is precisely because the Uncle is not using his own ships, he's using the ships of other nobles.

To put this into perspective, to an outside observer it would be like as if two people were driving down the same road in separate cars, and then suddenly one got t-boned by someone else in an intersection. What would it look like to the outside observer if the guy who got hit suddenly got out of their car with a gun and started shooting up the other guy's car? Just because he was there and didn't do anything to stop the other car?

THAT'S THE TRAP.

That means that the Count just can't wave a magic wand and say, "Oh, it must have been some kind of tragic accident" or some other BS. Because then the other nobles will be taking it up the to the next higher noble, or even all the way up to the Throne itself, screaming bloody murder about how this guy just fucking shot up their fleet of ships.

No, he cannot just sweep this under the rug. He cannot just hide it. Because if he tried to, then that means that somebody (or several somebodies) will have just lost a whole bunch of men and ships, and that will demand answers to some very hard questions. And no, it doesn't matter if the Count is in the so-called "Right" just because his ship has been attacked by a single, unknown, unregistered, never-before-seen type and class of ship that is flying no colors, no flags, and no identification.

This is because the Count cannot say, "Well it's obvious this unknown ship is part of their group." Because then the other nobles will go, "Are you fucking braindead? We have no idea where the hell that ship even came from!" And yes, that argument will fly because, unless evidence of the bribery, blackmail, and/or subterfuge turns up, then the investigators would have nothing to trump their word. Just like what happened in the previous incident on the vacation world.

Now, are we clear as to why it is a very very VERY bad idea for the Count's ships to just go firing on other Imperial warships all willy nilly?

You mean you invented a non-canon reason as to why it may be plausible the uncle can do what the count can't. Or are you reading ahead in the light novel? I'm not, I'm working with what I know from the manga.

Also, we don't know what the rank system is, as depending on whether you're English, French or Spanish, those titles and their ranks change name and hierarchical rank.

Furthermore, as count, a simple order to the opposition ships (leave at once, or else be considered a traitor) to determine who's committing treason and is a worthy target is more than do-able.

By the way, dead is dead; trouble is better than dead. It would be in the count's best interest to order the other ships to begin engagement on all non-retreating ships if it looks like he and his granddaughter will be killed soon. The other ships under his command would open up against the enemy ships and, worst case, the dead count takes the blame for the orders.

If he survives, as I said, there's enough known about the situation to investigate and provide (or even create) the proof he needs. And trouble is better than being dead.

Plausible deniability, without inventing a non-canon situation as to why the uncle can do what the count can't.

Speaking as to the hypodermic ship design: It really is dumb against a numerous near-peer adversary (in this situation especially) for a couple of reasons.

1) The assassins or kidnappers are against a lot of people trained just as well as them, on a ship they aren't familiar with, and without backup. It's a suicide mission with an extremely low rate of success, and hey, they might just testify against the person who sent them if they're captured.

2) The tech it displayed would be better used in large missiles if the mission is to kill them. As far as we know, that's been the plan all along. I don't think the uncle killed Chris's family because he wants to marry her or something.

3) Nearby ships, or smaller weapons on the ships itself can shoot to disable the now stationary invading ship, if it's still even capable of leaving under its own power. That's evidence left behind.

As I implied, this concept works great in a different scenario. This isn't the scenario for this kind of ship, especially since the mission seems to be to kill the count and his granddaughter.

If he were trying to kidnap them, then I'd at least say there's some sense to using it, but that really doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[E421T]

Ah yes the suppression ship. Was already wondering how the design would be. It's pretty nice tbh, when I read the novel I for some reason imagined some fire nation looking thingy.


Well time for Hiro to get some swords now...

 

[tnemmoComment]

Well, true to being a beginner and despite playing it online, Mimi somehow places 8 (or more) tiles per row in her discards.
(It's supposed to be 6 per row. It's entirely inconsequential to the rules of the game itself, and just for aesthetics.)

 

[Carn109]

A good old Kamikaze attack

 

[SalvySaroj]

And the count ended just like that, seriously these otherworldly nobles shit annoys me to no end...🤬🤢🤮

 

[SunSun]

This makes no sense, such a forced encounter. Why wouldn't the targeted ship just fly out of the way? And how are those few ships that are massively spread out around the fleet keeping the fleet in place, if they decided to go left or go forward real fast, what would those few ships do? They are so spread out they would have to face the entire fleet 1 at a time. And apparently this ship has indestcructable shields? Maybe they should use those shields on combat ships, just a thought.

Flying away would crash into escorts. That's the point of the unidentified fleet, to keep the escorts in place.

Yes they're spread out but there's a safety margin for big ships to keep in terms of distance from each other.

 

[electro_neanderthal]

Flying away would crash into escorts. That's the point of the unidentified fleet, to keep the escorts in place.

Yes they're spread out but there's a safety margin for big ships to keep in terms of distance from each other.

Combat maneuver space is always built into formations. There's enough space to move around.

That said, in a couple of chapters, the design of the boarding ship is ridiculed and an adequate explanation is given as to why anyone would crash a ship into another ship to board it.

And I think that explanation also applies to why they just let it happen and aren't retaliating:

Spoiler

Nobles sure do have a lot of pride.

Edit because I don't know if I'm allowed to post two in a row: I'm reading the novel now, and there are a couple of changes in the manga that, while not affecting the larger story, does change the event happening and view of the ship discussed in the argument before this one.

Spoiler

The grandfather's group is distracted by a single, fast military ship trying to pretend it's not a military ship (through jamming), and then approached by the hypodermic ramming ship at super high speeds with a shield generator so powerful it rivals a full battleship despite being the size of a corvette or destroyer.

There's only 2 ships attacking them, not a fleet.

This is a specialty ship designed for and lobbied into existence by nobles.

It's known among the empire's military industrial complex as the "noble’s fancy exclusive-use mobile coffin, a surprisingly effective decoy, and the Imperial military’s most expensive secret weapon."

It's success rate, including this time where they succefully pierced the ship, is 60%. The rest were shot down en-route.

 

[DanYHKim]

I don't know a goddamn thing about mahjong.

What's funny to me is seeing the little bamboo pieces inscribed on the tile. I wonder if they simply do that out of tradition, not knowing that these are sections of a particular plant.