My Dear Lass - Vol. 6 Ch. 73

[Gothic_Catalyst]

Thank you for the chapter.

 

[MakoMachine]

@ElariaFlori @vvboondoggirl

Can I say that I think you both make good points here?

I think it's fair to say trans people get villainized for trying to explain how a character can be trans rep without official confirmation. I'm glad to know I have support in trying to carve out our representations.

I'm also aware and appreciate that it's very possible the author thought it would be good development for the character to figure out their identity. It was probably on purpose to portray her as avoiding commitment to their identity and portray that particular phase of trans self-identification. We would be wise and respectful to wait until the author, a GL author specifically, clarifies things.

Sadly it's often not so simple. I think both of these stances are important means of defense for trans communities though. For now, this battle is over. Let's just celebrate the victory of getting another fictional sister~ 🩷🤍🩵

 

[vvboondoggirl]

i guess my only final word, is that when you create or uphold a "graded scale" of femboy->NB->Trans Woman it has unsavory consequences and implies a "severity" to the latter solely because of how transmisogyny works, internalized or not. "Trans woman" is always going to be perceived as the worst "option", regardless of how precise of an alignment it might be. "Femboy" provides a convenient minimization of the things that could signify that. Regardless of the current usage of "femboy" (and really this is barely history, it was 2018-2020 when people still just called them "tr*ps"), it ties trans women to a term that was conceived out of transmisogynistic fetishization and targeted efforts to deny undercut representations of transness.

 

[ElariaFlori]

i guess my only final word, is that when you create or uphold a "graded scale" of femboy->NB->Trans Woman it has unsavory consequences and implies a "severity" to the latter solely because of how transmisogyny works, internalized or not. "Trans woman" is always going to be perceived as the worst "option", regardless of how precise of an alignment it might be. "Femboy" provides a convenient minimization of the things that could signify that. Regardless of the current usage of "femboy" (and really this is barely history, it was 2018-2020 when people still just called them "tr*ps"), it ties trans women to a term that was conceived out of transmisogynistic fetishization and targeted efforts to deny undercut representations of transness.

I don't see it as a graded scale, but a spectrum. Femboys can absolutely exist independently of trans women, and vise versa. And being non binary is just it's own thing as well. My point is that I think you're falsely equating people's uncertainty on a character's identity to abject transmisogyny, which I find to be extreme and wrong. I think it's fair and reasonable and justified to be angry at the hate against us as a group, but this just isn't one of those situations at all.
Also, it seems to me that you're implying that femboys and nonbinary people are just stepping stones to being a trans woman, or even that being a trans woman is the only option for anyone feminine who isn't a cis woman, which also is just objectively wrong and very very stupid. If you're not, I apologize, but I'm genuinely concerned that you possibly believe this.

 

[ElariaFlori]

@ElariaFlori @vvboondoggirl

Can I say that I think you both make good points here?

I think it's fair to say trans people get villainized for trying to explain how a character can be trans rep without official confirmation. I'm glad to know I have support in trying to carve out our representations.

I'm also aware and appreciate that it's very possible the author thought it would be good development for the character to figure out their identity. It was probably on purpose to portray her as avoiding commitment to their identity and portray that particular phase of trans self-identification. We would be wise and respectful to wait until the author, a GL author specifically, clarifies things.

Sadly it's often not so simple. I think both of these stances are important means of defense for trans communities though. For now, this battle is over. Let's just celebrate the victory of getting another fictional sister~ 🩷🤍🩵

I appreciate this comment and its reasonable demeanor. I disagree on Xiaoyang being a victory, but that's only because I hate every aspect of her besides the supposed transness. Though I'm glad others can find comfort in her character

 

[vvboondoggirl]

I don't see it as a graded scale, but a spectrum. Femboys can absolutely exist independently of trans women, and vise versa. And being non binary is just it's own thing as well. My point is that I think you're falsely equating people's uncertainty on a character's identity to abject transmisogyny, which I find to be extreme and wrong. I think it's fair and reasonable and justified to be angry at the hate against us as a group, but this just isn't one of those situations at all.
Also, it seems to me that you're implying that femboys and nonbinary people are just stepping stones to being a trans woman, or even that being a trans woman is the only option for anyone feminine who isn't a cis woman, which also is just objectively wrong and very very stupid. If you're not, I apologize, but I'm genuinely concerned that you possibly believe this.

it is not me that is suggesting stepping stones but rather I am pointing out that that is the form the discussion took with the trans fem naysayers, which I was pointing out. Even "spectrum" can play towards that pattern (which jesus fuck i will never put "femboy" on the same spectrum as trans woman). That is where I am positing the transmisogyny lies. The general, "we can't say trans woman yet, x could be NB or a femboy". That is the point when ppl are negotiating down. There is a direction there. "Trans woman" is positioned as an escalation from either of those. And I am aware that that is not the case all the time! But here specifically, when there has been a lack of explicit language in the text about a possible nonbinary identity, or explicit language that would mark "femboy" e.g. "I want to be a man that dresses this way, not a girl", I don't believe the NB identity is being invoked equitably and is instead it is taking a lot of signifiers strongly associated with transfemininity in the trans woman sense and shrinking them down to fit an ambiguity that is simply more palatable. Again the only "proof" is the character uses masculine terms currently, something that if people bothered to listen to trans women, isn't implausible for closeted or out but very dysphoric trans women to do.


I feel like I have to repeat that I am of the opinion that anyone seriously using femboy as a label does in fact have some level of transmisogyny to check given the term's history and this specific usage that we have been talking about. We all got our shit.

 

[pdah83]

I finally understand. At first i thought it just a translation mistake. Confusing brother with sister. 🙏🙏🙏
I just read this story from the start this past few days. Great story. Beautiful art. I'm glad this is different from any GL manhua i read. I always feels like some plot missing when i read a chinese GL manhua but this one is really good.

 

[nyannibalism]

thanks for the translation!!!

YES GO GIRL!!!
DO NOT CEDE TO THOSE WHO WANT TO BEAT YOU DOWN!!!