My Home Hero - Vol. 8 Ch. 68 - Our Treasure

[cgr]

@laiseran

I don't know why you think him disobeying instructions about kidnapping Reika is a clear sign he wasn't given instructions to not kidnap her

this sentence is a paradox.

His only job is to get Reika for the syndicate, that's it.

for syndicate is very different from ransoming to grandpa tosu directly, if kocho was their employer as moozoh's theorized, syndicate would have given clearer instructions to not ransom directly at the start (before koizumi lost contact with syndicate) because kocho would not get any benefits

 

[mgRdr]

@cgr

I wasn't talking about employer identity, but even a few basic instructions like: ‘don’t kidnap reika until signal (by employer)’ because koizumi (fake shin) seriously contemplating kidnapping reika https://mangadex.org/chapter/1008403/4 is clear indication kocho didn't hire syndicate to screw over her dad & family

Shin is not a full-time syndicate member; the syndicate went black and does not send him any more instructions; he's got found out so the mission is fubar for him - he's trying to salvage the situation for himself, the syndicate has no involment with him and his actions at this point.

https://mangadex.org/chapter/994505/4 the syndicate is bound together by trust, fear and solidarity. kyoichi breaking it was a major anomaly that only happened because his circumstances were that dire

A good chapter demonstrating that trust, fear and solidarity are meant to keep grunts in check, and higher-level syndicate members are not bound by these principles. The syndicate is not an organization where everyone is on equal footing, there are at least two levels of hierarchy, and grunts on the lower level may not be receiving all the intel about the mission by virtue of being too low-level to be trusted with such info.

which means it would have also looked suspicious and stupid if she tried hide her desire for revenge

Do you always proclaim your desires? Especially the ones which can incriminate you? Ok, let's go the opposite route. Let's presume Kocho is behind all of this and is having her revenge. Why does she have to tell that to Kasen?

there is not a single word like 'disagreements/rebel/traitor/conflict/informant' from tosu family.

We've got half a chpater about a single Tosu family representative, there's not enough room to spout out dictonaries of text. Also why do you keep insisting that something needs to be said out loud to be true? We're reading a manga about a world full of lies and misdirections where it is a rule that your adversaries need to know as little as possible about your goals and intentions.

wakufu no tosu has always been referred to as a group. Nothing indicates a single member is unique among the group (and would thus betray them).

Nothing indicates

Again, we were shown bits and pieces about the group, it is too early to dismiss any theories based on what little we were shown. There's no rule saying that you must hold a special position to be capable of betrayal, and being an obedient daughter of the group head is a pretty strong position. Kasen contacts her, meaning Kocho probably does have some sway over at least the matters of inheritance.

syndicate's actions all suggest that they are trying to get as much intel and money as they can from wakufu no tosuku, which they wouldn't do if they were actually working with someone major on the inside like Kocho.

They will get all the money if they take control of Reika, I never saw them trying to lure out more than that from the group. About the intel - I think I missed the point where they were doing extra actions to grab more info

 

[cgr]

@mgRdr
I already repeated enough about shin's instructions, so I just say one final line: kocho really was employing them, then syndicate's instructions were obviously unclear so their members like koizumi have too much freedom to act on their own, a least some of them would probably have been arrested already: but not a single arrest happened: https://mangadex.org/chapter/991159/7 . conclusion: kocho wasn't employing them.

Do you always proclaim your desires? Especially the ones which can incriminate you?

kocho already proclaimed her hatred of kasen, that can already seriously incriminate her. any more wouldn't make a difference as long as she doesn't go into details.

We've got half a chpater about a single Tosu family representative, there's not enough room to spout out dictonaries of text.

more than that, we've got syndicate members and tesuo/kasen mentioning them several times throughout the manga, not a single word about one of them being different from the others.

it is too early to dismiss any theories based on what little we were shown.

not about the entire group, but saying Kocho --a middle aged lady who has been a filial daughter for her entire life (40~50 years), whom kasen knew for a long time (but Kasen doesn't think even once that she might betray their father), and whom has a high position in the family-- is betraying her family to untrustworthy and violent people like the syndicate, is pretty far-fetched.

 

[mgRdr]

@cgr

so their members like koizumi have too much freedom to act on their own

Shin is not their member, he was not even told that the syndicate is disbanded. He was on a tight leash (and even then he managed to fuck everything up), and now, since the syndicate is no more, no one is holding the leash, so he runs around on his own like rabid dog. The syndicate could have left him with some instructions before disbanding, but for whatever reasons (be it security concerns or just plain fuck up), they did not. The syndicate were shown to be able to afford failing their missions, so they probably weighted that they should abandon the Tosu mission for now in face of a risk of being arrested.

a least some of them would probably have been arrested already: but not a single arrest happened:

They are good at covering their tracks and erasing their problematic members - chapter 61 exists to tell us that.

conclusion: kocho wasn't employing them

And if Kocho was employing them, the mission would have definitely been a success, right? She hired them, and they turned out to be incopmetent at their job - why rule out the Hanlon's Razor?

kocho already proclaimed her hatred of kasen, that can already seriously incriminate her. any more wouldn't make a difference as long as she doesn't go into details.

Kasen already knows that her sister hates her, it's too late to hide that, so no point in acting in any different way (and, in fact, would be suspicious). And if Kocho hates her, it could mean a lot of different mutually exclusive things, like: [ul]
I hate you, so get out of my sight;
I hate you, so I'm gonna take care of the situation myself and relieve your daughter and our family heir from your incompetent clutches (seems kinda like the narrative she goes with);
I hate you, so I'm gonna have revenge on you by sicking a crime syndicate on your family (the potential revenge plot we're discussing);
[/ul]If she says she's in for a revenge, this means she is gonna take an active part in the conflict, and gonna act with intentions to harm her sister and her family. And I would like to repeat my question: why does Kocho have to state out loud that she wants revenge?

not a single word about one of them being different from the others.

Do they need to mention every important plot point in their passing conversations? If we go this route, for any future theory to be plausible, every plot point should have been revealed before the manga even started, which is not quite possible.

a middle aged lady who has been a filial daughter for her entire life (40~50 years)

She's not just a filial daughter - she's ruthless enough to be plotting on her own and having her own enforcers capable of killing.

but Kasen doesn't think even once that she might betray their father

Kasen left the snake nest around 20 years ago; the only thing on her mind right now is saving her daughter; the fact that Kocho is in on the situation is shocking for Kasen; and it's only a half of a chapter of their interactions, there's not enough time both in universe and in manga panels to reflect on what's happening.

is betraying her family to untrustworthy and violent people like the syndicate, is pretty far-fetched.

We do not know how she actually feels about the family - pretty much the only thing we know is that she said that she was dutiful to her father. It does not rule out that she hates the old man with burning passion, or that at least she's indifferent enough to not care about him getting hurt or killed. The Tosu family has a very twisted understanding of family values, after all.

 

[criver]

Prepare for the next retcon.

 

[cgr]

@mgRdr

About the intel - I think I missed the point where they were doing extra actions to grab more info

shino and kubo badmouthing nobuto because they don't have enough intel : https://mangadex.org/chapter/952234/22 . if they did have an informant like Kocho, it's weird that they didn't mention her here.

Shin is not their member,

sure, non-official member, but he was seen interacting with other members and was still on the job , so is thus a major security risk to official members. Giving him too imprecise instructions is not a good thing.

They are good at covering their tracks and erasing their problematic members

kubo is, but not really the others. Takeda was indecisive about killing his comrades, and kyoichi escaped when he was surrounded by three of them. Kubo isn’t even in japan all the time https://mangadex.org/chapter/839710/8 , so there is no way their members would disobey orders that often. conclusion: koizumi (fake shin) probably wasn't disobeying orders when he thought about kidnapping reika himself.

She hired them, and they turned out to be incompetent at their job

did you miss my entire reasoning? it’s about them not directly ransoming reika to grandpa tosu. Not obeying one simple instruction is much too incompetent.

do they need to mention every important plot point in their passing conversations?.

not needed, but it's extremely weird that not a single conversation throughout the entire manga even alludes to the possibility of a traitor in wakufu no tosu.
most of the major plot points were heavily foreshadowed:
tesuo needing to deal with matoba and kubo,
wafuku no tosu being shady and being extremely relevant later,
tesuo and kyoichi teaming up,
police involvement being a serious threat to tesuo ,
etc.
even many trivial details were foreshadowed this manga:
tesuo getting his friend https://mangadex.org/chapter/734172/11 who needs some work, a job to get rid of matoba's furniture https://mangadex.org/chapter/952234/26 ,
tesuo being a mystery novelist - he has a police officer dad, and was scriptwriter in college,
kasen being much calmer than tesuo at dealing with nobuto's death : her family is really shady, and probably did something similar.
kasen being an experienced drama club actor helps when she poisoned kyoichi, then tricked his mom,
tesuo using his father's death to trick kyoichi,
kasen making use of the als flashlight she stole from kyoichi,
tesuo knowing a detective- not surprising since his dad was an officer,
etc.

She's not just a filial daughter - she's ruthless enough to be plotting on her own and having her own enforcers capable of killing

We do not know how she actually feels about the family - pretty much the only thing we know is that she said that she was dutiful to her father

You're missing my point, Kocho stayed loyal for her entire life; if she truly couldn't stand it, she could have left 20 years ago like kasen did, or at least objected to the marriage. kasen lived her life for 20 years without any interference so this shouldn't have been some ridiculous notion to Kocho. People in this manga are realistic so it's extremely unlikely for Kocho to be inhuman enough to let her hate simmer for decades, and plot revenge

Kasen already knows that her sister hates her, it's too late to hide that, so no point in acting in any different way

If Kocho really wanted to hide a larger revenge plot, she should have acted like she wanted small revenge on Kasen since she has already shown she hates Kasen,
kocho should say something like: 'I really want to hurt you', or actually slap/punch Kasen. It would be more suspicious if Kocho just says she hates Kasen but doesn't actually do anything, not even anything small

 

[ciera]

@cgr

>If Kocho really wanted to hide a larger revenge plot, she should have acted like she wanted small revenge on Kasen since she has already shown she hates Kasen,
kocho should say something like: 'I really want to hurt you', or actually slap/punch Kasen.

that's ridiculous. do you expect everyone to emote every little thing they are thinking? having reika in the situation she is in is revenge enough.

and as already pointed out kocho doesn't need to work hand in hand with the low level members of the syndicate to get the results she wants. simply leaking the details of the inheritence to the desired undesirables can be enough to set things in motion in her favor. even a filial daughter can turn when matters of inheritence don't go as desired. families are routinely torn assunder over disputes over who does and who doesn't get their due.

 

[Kong_fart]

Guys pls stop I don't have enough money to buy more popcorn

 

[laiseran]

@cgr Firstly, that sentence is not a paradox, you are just misreading it.

I did not say:
"[Statement 1] I don't why you think Shin disobeying instructions to not kidnap Reika is a clear sign.

[Statement 2] He wasn't given any instructions to not kidnap Reika." as two separate statements.

I wasn't saying that Shin wasn't given any instructions in the second part (if you notice the lack of comma or full stop in the original). I was saying:

"I don't know why you think the fact that Shin disobeyed his employers instructions (hey Shin seduce Reika so she falls in love with you) somehow proves that he was given no instructions about not kidnapping Reika".

The only thing that doesn't make sense there is the fact that when Shin goes "time to betray the syndicate and kidnap Reika" you conclude "wow why didn't the syndicate tell him not to kidnap Reika, this theory is dumb".

Secondly, it's not Shin's job to ransom Reika, it's his job to pretend to be a cool guy and get her to go out with him so the syndicate has control over her and can ransom her whenever. He has no need to know what's going on beyond that, he's a freelancer. Him deciding to ransom Reika himself isn't a smart decision, is a decision made by someone who has zero idea what is going on. The syndicate probably did tell him not to kidnap Reika himself, but they didn't expect him to be stupid enough to try and ransom her himself.

If Shin really knew what was going on as you claim, why would he be wondering about the lack of contact? His whole reasoning behind his choice is that the syndicate isn't telling him what's going on, so he's betraying them. Not exactly the tight-knit group you describe

 

[cgr]

@laiseran

If Shin really knew what was going on as you claim, why would he be wondering about the lack of contact?

This is irrelevant. I was discussing the instructions he was given at the start. recent changes does not change the instructions he was given.

The syndicate probably did tell him not to kidnap Reika himself

the heck? probably did not is much more accurate because his thoughts directly contradict your theory https://mangadex.org/chapter/1008403/3 .

but they didn't expect him to be stupid enough to try and ransom her himself.

re-read my previous comments about too incompetent , too much freedom , 'security risk' , etc.

I'm rehashing my points too often with you so I'll stop debating.

@ciero

that's ridiculous. do you expect everyone to emote every little thing they are thinking?

re-read my debate with mgRdr , I was saying that mgRdr 's reasoning - that because Kocho hates Kasen, and didn't state her desire for revenge, Kocho probably truly desires revenge is pointless .

and as already pointed out kocho doesn't need to work hand in hand with the low level members of the syndicate to get the results she wants. simply leaking the details of the inheritence to the desired undesirables can be enough to set things in motion in her favor

I agree that this theory isn’t as far-fetched as moozooh ’s theory that Kocho is working with syndicate and promised a cut by kubo because your theory seems to be more of a family/business power play than a full on betrayal.

It’s annoying that you only clarified this theory now though because it looks like you’re backtracking: I was only discussing moozooh ’s really ridiculous theory which he seems to think of as fact.

I still think your theory is unlikely because Kocho doesn’t seem like the type to play with fire like the syndicate, and wakfuku no tosu doesn’t seem to be that rich/influential (reika only inheriting 500 million yen ?) . But I agree it’s more of a difference in opinion, so I will stop debating with you over it.

@Kong_fart
glad you enjoyed this all-text movie, since we don’t offer extra popcorn though, I’ll stop here .

 

[Zabgoobs]

bru

 

[Lonelyluigi]

Moar characters

 

[Zero13]

So they kept tabs on Reika afterall? Getting good now as they are all getting involved and Shin was probably killed uff. Poor grunt it all was for nothing afterall. He had no clue where to go with her either.

 

[tigerstar186]

Good lord this series has gone downhill. Everyone knows what everyone else is doing at all times and make wild assumptions considering the information available to them yet they are somehow always right.

 

[LaughingManCZ]

So that weird kid could be some spy of the Kasen side of family to check if Tetsuo is good father or something, that could potencialy save that story arc in my eye.