Ore no Shibou Flag ga Todomaru Tokoro wo Shiranai - Vol. 7 Ch. 44 - Beltis Forest

[MangaDex]

 

[Kaarme]

As my first comment after commenting having been disabled for so long, I'd like to thank you for translating this manga. It's one of my favourite isekai titles.

 

[grueneraffe]

just finished binging, wasn't expecting it to be this good

 

[Kaarme]

just finished binging, wasn't expecting it to be this good

Indeed. It didn't seem like much, in fact it seemed like 100% stock isekai based on the description, but it's actually pleasantly different from most of the others in some simple but fundamental ways that please me: The MC isn't OP immediately but has to work for it (including no cheat powers), there's no harem, there're no slaves, all the dialogue and various relationships actually matter and achieve something, the MC can't achieve everything on his own for real, the MC still kicks ass despite his limitations (this I like), there's no totally corny edgelord stuff.

I also really, really like the story between Harold and Erica. I loved the misunderstanding (or deception, whatever you'd call it) and how much it affected Erica, and how it's still affecting them. It's also funny how in the beginning Erica was ignorant, yet now it's Harold who's ignorant since he doesn't realise Erica knows everything. It's like Romeo+Juliet, except there's no reason for it to be, yet I keep enjoying it and I just don't get frustrated by it.

It's pretty cheap humour, but I also like how the MC can't control all of his cussing and cursing that came as a package with Harold's body. It's an interesting remnant of the real Harold still remaining.

Sorry about the long post, haha.

 

[UXLZ]

@Kaarme

Since you say it's one of your favorites and you might have a better idea of what's going on here, what sort of hiatus is it on? I think I remember hearing something about the source material doing kind of poorly so perhaps it's related to that.

And yeah, it's pretty good as far as Isekai go.

 

[Kaarme]

@Kaarme

Since you say it's one of your favorites and you might have a better idea of what's going on here, what sort of hiatus is it on? I think I remember hearing something about the source material doing kind of poorly so perhaps it's related to that.

And yeah, it's pretty good as far as Isekai go.

Alas, I have no idea. I certainly hope it's nothing permanent, but of course a hiatus is a bad sign. It wouldn't surprise me if the novel was doing poorly (despite the award), and this manga as well, because those things I listed above are, in fact, the exact opposite to what an average Japanese isekai reader is looking for.

 

[UXLZ]

Alas, I have no idea. I certainly hope it's nothing permanent, but of course a hiatus is a bad sign. It wouldn't surprise me if the novel was doing poorly (despite the award), and this manga as well, because those things I listed above are, in fact, the exact opposite to what an average Japanese isekai reader is looking for.

That's unfortunate. While I wouldn't really say it's among my 'favorite' Isekai, it's still quite good, and my actual favorite (OteMob) is apparently about to take a swan dive into the garbage heap if what one of my friends who's aware of what happens in the source material is correct.

As far as what the 'average Japanese Isekai reader is looking for,' I actually had a talk with that same friend recently in regards to what we actually want from Isekai (and what I might want to write when doing one myself), the prevalence of things like 'living lazily and easily,' or 'farming slow life' stuff is hella depressing when you consider what sort of life leads to someone wanting that as their escapist fantasy.

 

[Kaarme]

As far as what the 'average Japanese Isekai reader is looking for,' I actually had a talk with that same friend recently in regards to what we actually want from Isekai (and what I might want to write when doing one myself), the prevalence of things like 'living lazily and easily,' or 'farming slow life' stuff is hella depressing when you consider what sort of life leads to someone wanting that as their escapist fantasy.

Yeah. Based on everything I've learned of the Japanese society, it makes 100% sense, including the prevalence of dying in order to get the trip to the other world. Of course in order to get reincarnated, dying in a necessity, but just the fact dying is no big deal tells something about the stress (and suicide) levels. After all, there's also the option of getting summoned/transferred. It's just my gut feeling, but it's mostly high school students who get summoned, while those already working will want to die and get a fresh start.

 

[UXLZ]

Yeah. Based on everything I've learned of the Japanese society, it makes 100% sense, including the prevalence of dying in order to get the trip to the other world. Of course in order to get reincarnated, dying in a necessity, but just the fact dying is no big deal tells something about the stress (and suicide) levels. After all, there's also the option of getting summoned/transferred. It's just my gut feeling, but it's mostly high school students who get summoned, while those already working will want to die and get a fresh start.

Hmm, now that you mentioned it, people out of school getting transferred probably is a bit less common relative to just biting the bullet. Though, to give a slight amount of extra credit, the method does generally lead to some pretty fundamentally different base assumptions that could contribute as well.

Reincarnation is a lot better for providing a clean slate, transference is more likely to have 'connection' from our world because the possibility of returning exists, and it's much simpler to justify having people that the protagonist is already familiar with show up as well. To begin with, school settings are more common to begin with, and even beyond that 'someone and their schoolfriends/class' is more easier to work with at face value than 'someone and their office group/work friends.' Though come to think of it, there still are some older people transference stories, maybe it's more common for MMO-based settings.

Some part of me finds enjoyment and comfort in the genericness of isekai. I think my main criticisms usually boil down to terrible protagonists and plank-like characters, rather than the world. I don't mind the slavery tropes, or the cheats, or the game systems. I just feel like they're handled wonkily. 'Slavery is bad but it's okay if I have a slave because I treat them well and they fall in love with me.'

Rising of Shield Hero is something I'd actually say initially handles the slavery stuff quite well, giving the protagonist major trust issues and drawing him to slaves because they literally cannot betray him, it's an interesting dynamic, but it never actually pays off the character development and have him release all the slaves because his heart's been mended and he trusts again. Instead it just has a gimmick where it's beneficial to be enslaved by him because it gives stat boosts.

 

[Kaarme]

Some part of me finds enjoyment and comfort in the genericness of isekai. I think my main criticisms usually boil down to terrible protagonists and plank-like characters, rather than the world. I don't mind the slavery tropes, or the cheats, or the game systems. I just feel like they're handled wonkily. 'Slavery is bad but it's okay if I have a slave because I treat them well and they fall in love with me.'

Rising of Shield Hero is something I'd actually say initially handles the slavery stuff quite well, giving the protagonist major trust issues and drawing him to slaves because they literally cannot betray him, it's an interesting dynamic, but it never actually pays off the character development and have him release all the slaves because his heart's been mended and he trusts again. Instead it just has a gimmick where it's beneficial to be enslaved by him because it gives stat boosts.

I read so much isekai that all those tired old tropes apparently don't bother me, either, all that much. But they do make the value the series with such tropes much lower than those random gems that avoid them.

Slavery in isekai wouldn't actually bother me if it wasn't depicted in such a positive manner. If it was slavery where the slaves want to be free, it would be much better. But it's always the male MC acquiring female slaves who are perfectly happy to be his slaves. In the worst series free women actually want to become the MC's slaves. Of course there's normally some stupid boost they get by becoming a slave to serve as a ridiculous justification. I also like Shield Hero's beginning because there really wasn't anything positive about it. The slave mechant is an obvious shady person and the slave was bought with no holier-than-thou feelings. Naofumi needed a slave in order to survive and he didn't pretend it was anything but slavery enforced by magic.

I saw it mentioned in one of those "Ask questions about/interviews in Japan" Youtube videos that high school is the best time in a Japanese person's life. Because after that, the around the clock grinding of working life (in a black company) starts to get so close, even if a student continued to college or other further education. That was presented as one reason for the popularity of high school themed manga/anime. So, if you are a high school student, chances of being happy already are higher, so getting summoned instead of dying for a fresh start might be more relevant.

 

[UXLZ]

I read so much isekai that all those tired old tropes apparently don't bother me, either, all that much. But they do make the value the series with such tropes much lower than those random gems that avoid them.

For the most part that's true of me as well, though I've yet to start dredging up the murkiest depths, just digging pretty deep. I still cringe looking at most the titles, "I blah blah blah", "blah blah so I blah blah." First person pronouns, man. This manga's 'My' is a little better, albeit not by much. Though trying to name my own writing, I do admit it's actually quite challenging to come up with a title that is short, relevant to the story without spoiling things, and evocative.

Slavery in isekai wouldn't actually bother me if it wasn't depicted in such a positive manner. If it was slavery where the slaves want to be free, it would be much better. But it's always the male MC acquiring female slaves who are perfectly happy to be his slaves. In the worst series free women actually want to become the MC's slaves. Of course there's normally some stupid boost they get by becoming a slave to serve as a ridiculous justification. I also like Shield Hero's beginning because there really wasn't anything positive about it. The slave mechant is an obvious shady person and the slave was bought with no holier-than-thou feelings. Naofumi needed a slave in order to survive and he didn't pretend it was anything but slavery enforced by magic.

Honestly, I don't think I'd even mind it if the MC took in a slave girl that was perfectly happy to be his slave, so long as she was eventually set free. 'You don't need to be a slave to stay by my side,' yada yada. Could serve as some nice character development, though isekai are often allergic to that.

Thankfully I don't think I've encountered too many where free people are actively wanting to become the MC's slave, Shield Hero aside. I imagine it's not that uncommon with the dregs of isekaidom, though. Maybe the one with the guy larping as a demon king? His name was Diablo, I forget the series name. The two main female leads were enslaved due to reflected contract magic, but I can't really remember if more people joined in or if it was anything other than incidental beginning to the plot. That series was actually fairly decent, the juxtaposition between trying to present as some almighty confident ruler and mentally freaking out is vaguely similar to this series, though intentional rather than a forced quirk like poor Harold's arrogant mouth.

I intend to go with the slavery trope in my own story, but the MC wil not have a slave of their own, and it will generally be presented as pretty much purely a bad thing that should be eliminated. As far as involvement with main characters goes:
The history of one of the main girls has her parents being killed by another 'isekai'd person' wanting them/her as a slave due to being a rare type of demi-human, being a sort of 'collector'. Though she's not aware of it herself.
A later heroine will initially appear as if the MC will get a slave contract/death link (if master dies slave dies) for her, but he'll overwrite the terms in a way that could be considered a self-sacrifice because he finds it morally unacceptable to enslave someone if there's an alternative. (It makes it two-way, so the slavery aspect is negated but their lives become linked, putting himself at risk.)

Then again, even if I'm trying to handle slavery better than standard faire, I also intend to go full harem, so I can't hold my head too high, lmao. As in, actual polygamy, rather than a crush asterisk of five girls lusting after one indecisive person.
Still, I believe it can be done well, and the key is that all the girls need very strong bonds as well. OteMob is much of my inspiration, the connection between the two main girls might honestly be developed a bit more than their connection to the MC, and it seems completely believable, in fact, pretty much inevitable that it ends up as a harem of the three rather than one being picked over the other. (Other girls that apparently get introduced... perhaps not so much.

I saw it mentioned in one of those "Ask questions about/interviews in Japan" Youtube videos that high school is the best time in a Japanese person's life. Because after that, the around the clock grinding of working life (in a black company) starts to get so close, even if a student continued to college or other further education. That was presented as one reason for the popularity of high school themed manga/anime. So, if you are a high school student, chances of being happy already are higher, so getting summoned instead of dying for a fresh start might be more relevant.

Not entirely wrong for Westerners either. I personally long for high school as well to be honest, even though I'm only mid twenties. Admittedly, I think part of that is as much part of surrounding circumstances as it is about 'school life' itself. So more about the time period than the occupation.

 

[Kaarme]

Honestly, I don't think I'd even mind it if the MC took in a slave girl that was perfectly happy to be his slave, so long as she was eventually set free. 'You don't need to be a slave to stay by my side,' yada yada. Could serve as some nice character development, though isekai are often allergic to that.

Sure, slavery is still better than death, and being a decent person's slave would be better than being a monster's slave. I'd still like there to remain a certain understanding that while being a slave can be better than some even more tragic fate, being a slave is still the bottom position in any society. Furthermore, it would be greatly more interesting to read about the inner conflicts of a slave who wants to be free but can also appreciate the good treatment given by a master who treats slaves like real people, not possessions, in a world where good treatment is an exception. If the slave was freed and remained as a partner, it would be a genuine show of trust. Just as interesting would be a slave who left after being freed, despite having had a seemingly good relationship with the master. Because freedom just is such a big thing.

 

[jdoa]

@Kaarme

Since you say it's one of your favorites and you might have a better idea of what's going on here, what sort of hiatus is it on? I think I remember hearing something about the source material doing kind of poorly so perhaps it's related to that.

And yeah, it's pretty good as far as Isekai go.

Coming from a novel reader for about the past 5ish years, from what I've gathered from google-translated tweets from the author and announcements on the raw website, the raw releases should be resuming starting march 1st, and the raws I could find online go to about chapter 48, but some tweets I was seeing from the author led me to believe volume 6 may be done (the author is a big baseball fan so sifting through all his tweets to find ones about manga/novel releases with google translate is kinda tough).
For reference we're currently prob somewhere between 50%-75% through volume 5 depending on how much they condense details and where they cut off the volume. The novel releases have been slow since the author has also been working on the manga but chaps have been coming out. No clue about the actual popularity of the novel/manga in japan but the author does retweet a lot of fanart people send him if that's any indication

 

[Coolyeah145]

I did not expect to open the comments and see so many paragraphs without there being an argument, surprising.

 

[hungba]

It have started boring now 😩

 

[Connoisseur_Ryan]

I did not expect to open the comments and see so many paragraphs without there being an argument, surprising.

Fr. I enjoyed reading their comments

 

[ExecutiveDirector]

I like the idea of Sumeragi reinforcing Harold way more than him wearing an enemy nation’s uniform to cause confusion.