Oshibana! - Ch. 22

[comeonnow0]

You're the one who took an offhanded comment from me to spout a bunch of poorly-thought-through philosophical speculations that had nothing to do with my actual point that majority opinion does not equal artistic quality.

I already responded to a similar point earlier, when I said that every single character in this manga is heavily flawed but people single out Marika for hate for mysterious reasons (sexism and homophobia).

My position is pretty straightforward. Marika is by far the most interesting character in the manga. The author is not good at writing interesting characters so her arc has tons of issues. But none of those issues have anything to do with her being "negative" or "self-destructive." Those qualities are precisely what make her interesting! The problem isn't with the character concept, it's with the author's total failure to execute.

And that's the last thing I'll say to you, as you can tell because I got so bored of this argument I didn't look at it for a couple days.

You call it boredom. I call it being scared to admit you're wrong.

Again, I wrote a lot on why majority opinion does matter. You ignored all of that, called it pseudo-philosophical, gave zero reasons why what I said was wrong, and you continue to give zero reasons. It's sad how you say it had nothing to do with your point when it all showed that majority opinion does matter.

And the counter position is straightforward. Marika is too negative to be interesting. You handwave away accusations of negativity and just say that's the author's poor execution. Again, you can't even admit you're wrong. It's not "poor execution" of nothing. It's poor execution of something, of a character, of Marika, that makes her negative.

And again, you try to just sweep away any criticism as being from bigotry. It's your escape card, even if the criticism is justified. Just like how you try escape from being your dad, thoughtless posts.

Whatever. You clearly refuse to put thought into your posts, so there's no point in me trying with you.

 

[micz7ryu]

I hope she fucking dies

 

[dementati]

I like how this manga has relatively believable characters compared to the norm for this subgenre. I kinda like Marika and her character arc too. It feels like she's slowly warming up to Hachiouji and I'm kinda rooting for them. Still looking forward to more Oota x Sawa developments as well though.

 

[meeklee]

Oh I'm well aware that I'm in the minority among the readership on this website. That just gives me further confidence that I'm right. Maybe you haven't noticed but this website, particularly fans of het male-led romcoms, tend to be extremely misogynist and homophobic.

This is one of the most braindead comments I've ever read, holy shit. It's not misogynistic to point out that she is an emotionally abusive piece of shit.

Marika's "boyfriend" is completely aware of the entirety of Marika's situation, knows for a fact she's using him, and plays into it because it means he gets to fuck her.

This kinda makes it clear that you don't understand at all. He's with her because the alternative was her going and fucking some random guys instead, and then put him in a position where she knew he couldn't deny their "relationship" to their friends without making her look like the POS she is - which he doesn't want to do.

 

[Cogito3]

This is one of the most braindead comments I've ever read, holy shit. It's not misogynistic to point out that she is an emotionally abusive piece of shit.

What's misogynistic is to act like (a) she's the only flawed character in the manga and everyone else is squeaky clean and (b) to reduce her entire complex character and motivations to "piece of shit" when male characters (and women like Sawa who constantly glaze and justify the male characters) get every benefit of the doubt.

This kinda makes it clear that you don't understand at all. He's with her because the alternative was her going and fucking some random guys instead, and then put him in a position where she knew he couldn't deny their "relationship" to their friends without making her look like the POS she is - which he doesn't want to do.

If you think Hachiouji is doing this out of pure selflessness, and the fact that he gets to fuck the girl he has a crush on has nothing to do with it, then you're the one who doesn't understand his character at all, sorry.

Anyway I don't actually care about this manga anymore and even thinking about it kinda pisses me off tbh so I won't respond to you further.

 

[meeklee]

What's misogynistic is to act like (a) she's the only flawed character in the manga and everyone else is squeaky clean and (b) to reduce her entire complex character and motivations to "piece of shit" when male characters (and women like Sawa who constantly glaze and justify the male characters) get every benefit of the doubt.

Nobody is saying that from what I read. She is simply the most flawed character, and in ways that are extremely manipulative and abusive towards others - and not particularly redeemable in my opinion, but then I have been hurt by similar shit in the past so I may be biased there. The rest of the characters are also very flawed across the board (although flawed implies that there's depth to any of them - I'd go with "poorly written"), but there's only one in my opinion who is worth actively disliking. She just also happens to be a female character - again, that is not misogynistic. She is objectively being an emotionally manipulative piece of shit. It's not that FWB-type relationships are inherently bad, but the way she started said relationship is, and she went into it knowing that the other party had feelings for her.

If you think Hachiouji is doing this out of pure selflessness, and the fact that he gets to fuck the girl he has a crush on has nothing to do with it, then you're the one who doesn't understand his character at all, sorry.

Again, that's not what I said. You're just reading whatever meaning you want from my comments. I just said he was put in a position where he pretty much can't refuse. I think most people, when put in a position where the person they love is going down such a self-destructive path would do whatever they can to help them. Also didn't she imply/outright say that she was lying about that, and just knew that he couldn't refuse? (genuinely don't remember, the writing in this got so goddamn psychotic that it's hard to recall and I really don't want to re-read).

Anyway I don't actually care about this manga anymore and even thinking about it kinda pisses me off tbh so I won't respond to you further.

Nice way to cop out of the conversation, but we can agree on one thing - that this manga is in no way worth continuing with.

 

[Cogito3]

Nice way to cop out of the conversation, but we can agree on one thing - that this manga is in no way worth continuing with.

You say "cop-out," I say "I don't care."

I do, however, care a bit about you, since you also understand this manga is awful, so I will say: maybe you aren't sexist, I can't see into your soul. But I've seen comments sections on so many different manga and manhwa, and the flawed female characters always get more hate than the flawed male ones, every single time. Especially if those female characters don't suck the MC's metaphorical cock. So yeah, I think when tons of readers ignore Marika's complexity (she is the only remotely complex character in this manga) to just blindly hate on her, I think that's just yet another example of misogyny.

Hope you and I both find better manga to read.