Ririmu Horikku - Vol. 1 Ch. 1 - Two People Crazy About Each Other

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Kind of a minor thing that bothered me through the first half:

So we go from approaching fantasy races in the modern day through the lens of cultural sensitivity, establishing that consent is valued in this society, and that assuming succubi are always erotic is kinda racist... to a few pages later our "I'm not like the other succubi" FL responding to knowledge that the ML "isn't into erotic stuff" by deciding "Eureka, I shall do sex crimes to him rather than confess my feelings!"

Seriously? Like, I remember how the author introduced the reader to a character being gay in Love and Lies was also through a kinda problematic moment, but come on.

I'm similarly unsure if the author realizes that the way they handled the ML's whole battle leaves him coming off as not just a pickme-ass bitch but a total hypocrite. "I need her to realize I'm not like those other filthy men when I'm the one starin' at her crotch. I'd better police the modesty of her wardrobe."

Thanks to a few decisions, parts of it read like a clumsy satire of "stupid reiwa kids and their woke." I think it was aiming for "laughing with" and winged "laughing at." Takes me out of it a bit.

Which is a shame, because I actually kinda like the characters and setup, otherwise. I'll keep reading.
I don't think he's a hypocrite for having those desires, simply because... well he's a high-school boy around a supernaturally beautiful high-school girl. Of course his hormones are going to go off, and of course he's going to be tempted. If he got upset about other people looking at her like that while eating the eye candy without hesitation, then yeah: massive hypocrite. But the fact he tries to rein in his baser impulses and is constantly making sure to keep himself in check is, in my books, admirable. He's showing a lot more self control than some other high-school boys in manga. Hell, he's showing more respect and self-restraint than a lot of IRL adult men, even.

The "policing her wardrobe" thing is also... well, upon rereading it sure seems like he waited long enough to see her T-back underwear (clever implication by the illustrator without actually showing it, BTW) before suggesting she put on some modesty shorts, and I can certainly see why it might be considered 'policing'. I think it might just be a culture clash, though; Japan is big on respect and mindfulness, so even subtle displays of possessiveness like that is probably seen as thrilling. It might also be a bit of humor, too. That for all his attempts at high-minded ideals, he's still a teenager in close proximity to the girl he likes and burned the image of those T-backs into his mind.

But I haven't read any of the authors other works and am familiar with much more crass "slop", so maybe my standards are a bit lower.
 
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honestly i kind of feel like her being a succubus doesn't (at least so far) really matter for the story.
Like story wouldnt really change if she was just a woman who before had been generally uncomfortable with erotic stuff and being seen in that light and being looked at that light.
obviously this is just the first chapter so obviously cant say much based on it
 
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I do not know if it is a cultural different and a translation stuff but this whole thing read so weirdly and I do not mean sentence by sentence, I mean it's not like i can type one myself perfectly but like how character talk what are they though how it is passed.

If I have to describe it in one sentence it look one one of those collaboration video where each creator in a video animate like 10s of the video and each one has their own style and not trying to be that coherent but expect it is a single author trying to put as many "trope" as possible without like thinking how to weave that together properly and anything, like it feel like a bucket list twitter one shoot written over 60+ pages

Also little point to add on the policing of the outfit but it's not like when someone forgot to zip the zipper... you do not wear that short of a miniskirt and forgot a spat or that stair are "danger"
and overall I think it a better way to write the ML would have been making him imagine the scene before going up the stair and decide to walk faster so he walk next to her instead of you know still getting the lucky pervert moment and getting the "mylady I though about your panty and you should wear a spat" cause it feel more of an after though than "care" at this point

I mean same with how he describe her legs when the people in the store look... like you know describing your crush as a piece of meat and not making a hand signal to the guy washing about you know... stop doing that or anything, nope just describe her as a piece of meat that all he did, and like if you are okay with him telling her what she know (and btw that fine different view point) you should also be pissed he did nothing here, like feel like a real try hard that is not trying to be a good human but only to appear as one
 
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I don't think he's a hypocrite for having those desires, simply because... well he's a high-school boy around a supernaturally beautiful high-school girl. Of course his hormones are going to go off, and of course he's going to be tempted. If he got upset about other people looking at her like that while eating the eye candy without hesitation, then yeah: massive hypocrite. But the fact he tries to rein in his baser impulses and is constantly making sure to keep himself in check is, in my books, admirable. He's showing a lot more self control than some other high-school boys in manga. Hell, he's showing more respect and self-restraint than a lot of IRL adult men, even.

The "policing her wardrobe" thing is also... well, upon rereading it sure seems like he waited long enough to see her T-back underwear (clever implication by the illustrator without actually showing it, BTW) before suggesting she put on some modesty shorts, and I can certainly see why it might be considered 'policing'. I think it might just be a culture clash, though; Japan is big on respect and mindfulness, so even subtle displays of possessiveness like that is probably seen as thrilling. It might also be a bit of humor, too. That for all his attempts at high-minded ideals, he's still a teenager in close proximity to the girl he likes and burned the image of those T-backs into his mind.

But I haven't read any of the authors other works and am familiar with much more crass "slop", so maybe my standards are a bit lower.
To clarify, I'm not trying to condemn the character, but am kinda saddened by a minor aspect of the writing.
Having the desires is completely fine. Expressing them, unsolicited, to someone who's not attracted to you is inappropriate. He understands this - great! There's a difference between shutting up about it and pretending you're a desireless monk, though - and the misunderstanding over "being uncomfortable with sex stuff ('not good with erotic stuff')" and his continual suppression of any outward expression of his attraction to her provides the fuel for the comedy in the whole series I guess. Fine.

What makes him a hypocrite is the fact that the dude literally says "I want her to think 'this guy isn't like other men, he's not looking at my face or my body, but at my personality.' And then I'll ask her out." It's a different kind of cynical as the guys who are hitting on her because they think she's hot, but it's equally motivated by selfish desires.

That's the joke that the manga's making. There's no other way to read his little mantra to himself than that he's full of contradictions and more than a little hypocritical (after he has her put on the shorts,) "Yes, my human rights awareness is proper. I am a sincere man. [Panty-eyes.]" And it's a funny joke. The whole thing is relatable on a certain level, and I'm glad somebody's writing this story.

Like, it seems like what it wants to mine for humor is the tension that comes from trying to embrace new and unfamiliar progressive values in good faith, but feeling like you're walking on eggshells while doing so. The characters are mindfully trying to be better people in a conscious way and also performing (both senses of the word) the kind of "sensitivity" that's expected of good people in the "modern era." The way the author's trying to do that is by latching onto how doing that requires a kind of self-examination that feels unnatural, leading to them getting all in their own heads and doubting everything they do.

There's a lot to laugh at, there, in a sympathetic kind of way. And I think a lot of it is a look inside the author's own head, which is why the characters feel authentic. Thus, I think it's coming from a good place - "laughing with, instead of at," as I said previously.

... and that's why a couple of moments stick out to me where the story wants to have its cake and eat it, too. Yes, it's hypocritical of him to think he's earned a Special Boy cookie for putting in the bare minimum to control his "baser impulses" when he lives in a "reiwa era where looking at someone's panties without their consent isn't permitted" and everyone else is also controlling those impulses. The joke relies on the MC internalizing equally-outdated sexist tropes about all men being wolves and to a lesser extent, women basically being property whose value is diminished when looked at lewdly by others. Not what the author was going for.

Similarly, one of the punchlines in the safety shorts bit is her DESPERATELY wanting to know whether his interest comes from him desiring and wanting to be possessive of her before she talks herself out of it by saying basically "no, he said he's not good with sexy stuff, so he must just be a 'gentlemanly sir' looking out for me." Thank GOD we were spared the usual dialogue where the man lectures the woman that "as a girl, you need to value your body more" and she gets all heart-eyes over it.

But it still requires the idea that it's an okay thing to do to demand that a girl adjust her perfectly fine wardrobe just to accommodate your weird sexual hang-ups. She didn't thoughtlessly wear those undies - she specifically picked them out because she was excited to go out with him. By "correcting" her behavior, he's either implying she's an idiot who didn't know better or a slut who did. Yikes. That sucks. Again, not what the author was going for.

I say all that to get to this point:
While I really appreciate what the series is doing in making the humor the people, the above bits highlight that it's a really short walk over towards accidentally making the joke that they're trying to be sensitive at all, when it "sucks all the romance out of romance." (for example, this is a world where your romcom can't have an earnest kabedon for its own sake, because that would come across as super rapey in the real world - the joke needs to acknowledge that in some way or the premise falls apart)

It makes me a li'l nervous, and feels like maybe author's playing with fire. I like how it's handled so far (two whole chapters lol) but... yeah.
 
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I wonder what was up with the feminism and LGBT books in the bookshop? Just random background placement, or something more? It sorta seems like there's parallels being drawn between the fantasy races, and real life minorities, with the text overlays of talking about biases and discrimination. I wonder if this is going to be a serious plot point, or it was just a throwaway as part of the initial scene setting.
 
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Their interactions were kinda fun to see but I think it will get boring quick and new characters will show up and there will be no relationship progress at all right up until the last chapters years from now.
 
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Kind of a minor thing that bothered me through the first half:

So we go from approaching fantasy races in the modern day through the lens of cultural sensitivity, establishing that consent is valued in this society, and that assuming succubi are always erotic is kinda racist... to a few pages later our "I'm not like the other succubi" FL responding to knowledge that the ML "isn't into erotic stuff" by deciding "Eureka, I shall do sex crimes to him rather than confess my feelings!"

Seriously? Like, I remember how the author introduced the reader to a character being gay in Love and Lies was also through a kinda problematic moment, but come on.

I'm similarly unsure if the author realizes that the way they handled the ML's whole battle leaves him coming off as not just a pickme-ass bitch but a total hypocrite. "I need her to realize I'm not like those other filthy men when I'm the one starin' at her crotch. I'd better police the modesty of her wardrobe."

Thanks to a few decisions, parts of it read like a clumsy satire of "stupid reiwa kids and their woke." I think it was aiming for "laughing with" and winged "laughing at." Takes me out of it a bit.

Which is a shame, because I actually kinda like the characters and setup, otherwise. I'll keep reading.

I think a lot of this is just a Japanese cultural thing. Being a) broadly very socially conservative and resistant to change and b) ridiculously homogeneous means that Japan isn't all that great at exploring topics of racial/cultural/sexual differences with any real deftness and sensitivity. I think the author is honestly trying to show a society that's attempting to be considerate of the demi-humans innate differences and the characters are trying to be progressive and conscious of their behavior, but the author just doesn't have the experience and familiarity with what that's really like to pull it off well in the writing. So it comes off as somewhere between extremely surface-level performative ("look! we mention not to treat different people badly while also still treating them differently in a way that's a bit insulting") and hypocritically disingenuous ("I know your differences are not your fault and you can't help it, but I'm still going to passive-aggressively or even indirectly/non-judgementally hold them against you because the nail that sticks up gets hammered down even when it only sticks up on account of there being no way to nail it in any further than it is")
 
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I think a lot of this is just a Japanese cultural thing. Being a) broadly very socially conservative and resistant to change and b) ridiculously homogeneous means that Japan isn't all that great at exploring topics of racial/cultural/sexual differences with any real deftness and sensitivity. I think the author is honestly trying to show a society that's attempting to be considerate of the demi-humans innate differences and the characters are trying to be progressive and conscious of their behavior, but the author just doesn't have the experience and familiarity with what that's really like to pull it off well in the writing. So it comes off as somewhere between extremely surface-level performative ("look! we mention not to treat different people badly while also still treating them differently in a way that's a bit insulting") and hypocritically disingenuous ("I know your differences are not your fault and you can't help it, but I'm still going to passive-aggressively or even indirectly/non-judgementally hold them against you because the nail that sticks up gets hammered down even when it only sticks up on account of there being no way to nail it in any further than it is")
Basically this, 100%, because I didn't want to quite get into it - from an american standpoint it hits like your well-meaning gen-x aunt from the boonies who's never been outside the right-wing talk radio sphere of cultural influence but is still inventing 1990s Political Correctness/2010s Woke 1.0 from first principles based on what she's seen on Fox News a decade ago. I think the author's doing way, way better than the average person pulled off the street might.

I'm not a japanese teenager, so I don't want to definitively state that no japanese teenager would be like "well, it's an era of diversity," etc., talking about reiwa like it's someone else's problem. But c'mon. The author's obviously a well-meaning older person. It's hard to quite tell, but I think their POV is that of a "good person trying to be better" who's "mainstream except for the far right" at this point. Like, a lot of english speakers might not know that japan still hadn't even started to try and take the basic, modern gender equality stuff that would be expected of a first-world nation seriously (e.g., addressing chikan on a national level) until the last five years or so.

For the record, I think that in a society as "traditionally-valued" and majority-dominated as japan, there's a definite value to this kind of reassuring humor. If you're part of the existing power structure (and I say this as one of the most privileged humans on this whole stupid planet) it's completely normal to "perform" progressive values before they truly feel "instinctively natural" or whatever. You're defying generations of cultural programming - of course it feels weird. The fact that you doubt yourself isn't bad, it's good. We should all critically evaluate more of our initial takes without it being a shameful thing. And that was absolutely missing from american discourse a decade ago, when callout and cancellation on twitter more resembled the japanese ijime form of bullying to begin with.

I'm sure it's a difficult needle to thread, making something accessible but not scolding, and still publishable in a very conservative and risk-averse manga industry, etc. And I'm sure that the people who will bounce off this kind of story would bounce off it regardless of how it's handled, dismissing it as however you translate "woke mind virus" to the language of conservative japanese nationalism. Reminder here that japan's current PM is a prominent member of the fucking yikes-ass "japan did nothing wrong in WWII" Nippon Kaigi wing of ultranationalist lobbying and is described in a "yeah duh" tone of voice by those who know what they're talking about as "an obvious fascist."

So I like what the author's doing, and I think this is obviously funny and cute, and it's instantly more socially challenging and "important" than other progressive shounen manga like Tsumiki Ogami* because it's discussing the matter not in a preachy sense but with a sense of humor that assumes the reader's already on that sometimes lonely-feeling journey. It's the first mainstream one of those that I'm aware of, and obviously you can't do that these days without social risk. So huge respect to the author, even if they introduced the only gay character in their previous work by having them plant a non-consensual kiss on the sleeping main character.

All my fussing is less "what's happening omg" and more "don't you dare fucking fumble this; I've read your other works past the halfway point." Because if it's handled well, it could be the kind of thing that's seen as historically notable 15 years from now, and if it's not handled well, it'll be just another mid-ass romcom that got all boring and cringe halfway.
*don't get it twisted just because I used it as a counterpoint; Tsumiki Ogami fucking rules. <3
 
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Basically this, 100%, because I didn't want to quite get into it - from an american standpoint it hits like your well-meaning gen-x aunt from the boonies who's never been outside the right-wing talk radio sphere of cultural influence but is still inventing 1990s Political Correctness/2010s Woke 1.0 from first principles based on what she's seen on Fox News a decade ago. I think the author's doing way, way better than the average person pulled off the street might.

I'm not a japanese teenager, so I don't want to definitively state that no japanese teenager would be like "well, it's an era of diversity," etc., talking about reiwa like it's someone else's problem. But c'mon. The author's obviously a well-meaning older person. It's hard to quite tell, but I think their POV is that of a "good person trying to be better" who's "mainstream except for the far right" at this point. Like, a lot of english speakers might not know that japan still hadn't even started to try and take the basic, modern gender equality stuff that would be expected of a first-world nation seriously (e.g., addressing chikan on a national level) until the last five years or so.

For the record, I think that in a society as "traditionally-valued" and majority-dominated as japan, there's a definite value to this kind of reassuring humor. If you're part of the existing power structure (and I say this as one of the most privileged humans on this whole stupid planet) it's completely normal to "perform" progressive values before they truly feel "instinctively natural" or whatever. You're defying generations of cultural programming - of course it feels weird. The fact that you doubt yourself isn't bad, it's good. We should all critically evaluate more of our initial takes without it being a shameful thing. And that was absolutely missing from american discourse a decade ago, when callout and cancellation on twitter more resembled the japanese ijime form of bullying to begin with.

I'm sure it's a difficult needle to thread, making something accessible but not scolding, and still publishable in a very conservative and risk-averse manga industry, etc. And I'm sure that the people who will bounce off this kind of story would bounce off it regardless of how it's handled, dismissing it as however you translate "woke mind virus" to the language of conservative japanese nationalism. Reminder here that japan's current PM is a prominent member of the fucking yikes-ass "japan did nothing wrong in WWII" Nippon Kaigi wing of ultranationalist lobbying and is described in a "yeah duh" tone of voice by those who know what they're talking about as "an obvious fascist."

So I like what the author's doing, and I think this is obviously funny and cute, and it's instantly more socially challenging and "important" than other progressive shounen manga like Tsumiki Ogami* because it's discussing the matter not in a preachy sense but with a sense of humor that assumes the reader's already on that sometimes lonely-feeling journey. It's the first mainstream one of those that I'm aware of, and obviously you can't do that these days without social risk. So huge respect to the author, even if they introduced the only gay character in their previous work by having them plant a non-consensual kiss on the sleeping main character.

All my fussing is less "what's happening omg" and more "don't you dare fucking fumble this; I've read your other works past the halfway point." Because if it's handled well, it could be the kind of thing that's seen as historically notable 15 years from now, and if it's not handled well, it'll be just another mid-ass romcom that got all boring and cringe halfway.
*don't get it twisted just because I used it as a counterpoint; Tsumiki Ogami fucking rules. <3
Sorry, but the fact that your criticism is that it's not "woke" enough is precisely the reason why whoever won in Japan did xddd
 
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