Ruri Dragon - Ch. 14 - I Wanna Learn About You, Maeda

[YamiryuuZero]

Well, if that's your take then I definitely don't give a shit. You're making the case that flaws in translation are fundamentally failing to capture the spirit of her character but really it seems to me that you've fundamentally failed to understand her character because your only focus is on purism. By your own admission the translators of the oneshot adhered closely to the original and Ruri there is actually less less meek, just as snarky (less sarcastic; still snarky) and just as spunky. So I can walk away from this conversation comfortably knowing that none of your moaning fucking matters.



Hell no.

But I speak the language, have been studying Japanese for 16 years and worked as a freelancer translator for 5 years and online tutor for Japanese people for 3 more years.

The scanlation for the One shot is much closer to the original script than the official release of the serialized Ruri Dragon manga on MangaPlus!

There are indeed flaws in that translation, but in this case it comes from a misunderstanding of the dialogue due to how Japanese sentences are structured, or the translator trying too hard to get the meaning across due to low faith on the reader's comprehension abilities, but those are few in comparison to the amount of dialogue.

Have in mind that the way scanlators tend to work is by transcribing the dialogue into an Excell sheet, bubble by bubble, and then having the translator work on that instead of using the manga pages, so lines that are made to be understood given the context of the image can end up being misunderstood, especially if the sentence has multiple ways of being interpreted.

The mistranslations made by a group of amateurs are easier to forgive given it's a bunch of people that lack the proper training to output a professional grade translation (but still are much better than what localizers that get paid to translate manage to dish out).

As for Ruri being less meek and just as snarky, that's only in the localized version! She is trembling when people start questioning her (p13) and freezes up the more the class reacts. The visuals already portray her as someone who hates being the center of attention and the dialogue cements the idea.

I already explained how the first chapter gets lines wrong in previous posts, exchanges characters personalities among themselves, inserts slang where there were none and remove where there were, etc. But it doesn't matter how many times this gets proven, people like you will only complain about people like me and BuyVelomobiles for pointing out the lack of professionalism in supposedly professional translations!

 

[endless]

Love how like no character has thought bubbles making things more complicated than they are

 

[Guyincognitus]

No, they're not. I don't know why you keep saying this if you haven't even seen the raws, much less understood them.

The one-shot and the series are fundamentally the same in overall characterization though not in the particulars of how they express it.

As for Ruri being less meek and just as snarky, that's only in the localized version! She is trembling when people start questioning her (p13) and freezes up the more the class reacts. The visuals already portray her as someone who hates being the center of attention and the dialogue cements the idea.

Literally the exact same thing happened in chapter 1.

When I first heard about this localisation issue I was worried that the translators were sacraficing fundamental facets of the characters and story for the sake of readability because that would be an actual problem for a layperson like me but you're actually making it more and more clear that that isn't an issue.

Maybe apply for a job at viz and improve translations from the inside.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

The one-shot and the series are fundamentally the same in overall characterization though not in the particulars of how they express it.

You didn't read either raw. Nothing more to discuss.

Literally the exact same thing happened in chapter 1.

Let me make this really easy for you to understand: The dialogue is different in both versions. The scan group, and the "Localizer" translated different conversations, which only resembled each other superficially.

The scan group for the oneshot tried its best to stick to the script. Their only problem is a lack of skill.

The "Localizer" re-wrote the characters to being Americans, with their American quirks.

The dialogue in the oneshot left Ruri as more defensive, and yes, slightly sassy with mom. Meanwhile mom is 100% cool and composed. Instead of the exchange going something like

"What do you think these are?"
"...I think they're horns"
"Figures"

Like in the serialization, It goes something like:

"What are these?"
"Horns"
"I know"

If you could read the language, you'd know this by now.

The only thing the two have in common are the general story beats. The characterizations are different. In the oneshot, mom already knows what's up, and their exchange is straightforward, and deadpan. Mom barely considers this worth discussing. In the main series, the mother starts off surprised by the sudden growths on Ruri's head, then quickly comes to grips with the situation alongside her daughter.

I don't even know why I bothered writing this out. It's not like you even know what I'm talking about. Nor do you care about the story.

Maybe apply for a job at viz and improve translations from the inside.

I'm not a Communist, so I'd never be hired.

 

[toapat]

As for Ruri being less meek and just as snarky, that's only in the localized version! She is trembling when people start questioning her (p13) and freezes up the more the class reacts. The visuals already portray her as someone who hates being the center of attention and the dialogue cements the idea.

im going to note, it seems no one here has ever met someone who uses Snark and Sarcasm as a defensive mechanism. Ruri is clearly a limited extrovert who actively resists making friends. Ch4-7 change the characterization because they didnt attempt to balance the switch where Ruri resists anyone she doesnt accept as a friend, but its still the same type of personality between english and japanese. I certainly acted and thought in very similar ways to Ruri in highschool just based on her actions, and that was while being blatantly bullied.

 

[rh75]

I would really like to enjoy this manga, but every time I get immersed the next conversation or continued conversation destroys that immersion. This story is supposed to take place in Japan with Japanese students so why does it sound like something from America? It's just so cringe at times, I have to stop and reread to see if I made a mistake.

 

[flowsthead]

"Unlike me, Ruri is borderline obsessed with how others view her and treat her."

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the root of the issue with localizations like these - the original Ruri talks like someone who is self conscious and fears how others might perceive her, while localized Ruri is a snarky girl who couldn't care less as she makes sarcastic retorts at any and everyone!

And now that we've reached out a point where her lack of social skills are on full display as she tries to overcome her meek nature, the localized dialogue betrays that character trait that is being specifically addressed, making the English release a mess!

This feels like a rewrite of what I've read. Here are some moments in the localization that fully translate to someone who is "self-conscious and fears others might perceive her".

Chap 1 - "Quit it don't look at me"; let's people touch her horns while looking uncomfortable; [Agrh. It's a whole crowd now]; looks uncomfortable with people taking selfies with her; "nah, not into chatting"
Chap 2 - Felt awkward about not seeing Yuka for a while; worried about going to school after the fire incident;
Chap 3 - apprehensive about returning to school; hesitant to go in the classroom, hiding behind classmates;
Chap 4 - "he's always trying to chat me up, since he sits in front me...but let's be real, talking to boys is tough"; "sunny balls of energy like her freak me out"; "s-starbucks...n-nothin'" while looking nervous; "no, yuka. I need a lifeline...starbucks is scary"

She can retort when people talk to her because she isn't incapable of communicating, but being self-conscious and afraid of how others perceive her still gets through. I feel like all these complaints are misremembering the actual manga. She's always seemed socially awkward in the translation. I don't know where you get the idea that the localization made her just a "snarky girl".

 

[UnvalidUserName]

Holy shit, does Maeda like her own mom at least? This chick is natural born hater!

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

This feels like a rewrite of what I've read. Here are some moments in the localization that fully translate to someone who is "self-conscious and fears others might perceive her".

Chap 1 - "Quit it don't look at me"; let's people touch her horns while looking uncomfortable; [Agrh. It's a whole crowd now]; looks uncomfortable with people taking selfies with her; "nah, not into chatting"
Chap 2 - Felt awkward about not seeing Yuka for a while; worried about going to school after the fire incident;
Chap 3 - apprehensive about returning to school; hesitant to go in the classroom, hiding behind classmates;
Chap 4 - "he's always trying to chat me up, since he sits in front me...but let's be real, talking to boys is tough"; "sunny balls of energy like her freak me out"; "s-starbucks...n-nothin'" while looking nervous; "no, yuka. I need a lifeline...starbucks is scary"

She can retort when people talk to her because she isn't incapable of communicating, but being self-conscious and afraid of how others perceive her still gets through. I feel like all these complaints are misremembering the actual manga. She's always seemed socially awkward in the translation. I don't know where you get the idea that the localization made her just a "snarky girl".

Ch. 1, p. 20:

Original line：目立ちませんように... (Roughly: I hope I don't stand out).

English line: Okay... I'll try not to make a scene...

Which strikes you as meeker? The one where she makes a plan to blend in, or the one where she quietly prays not to stand out?


One implies a level of agency- as if the situation hinges on her behavior in some way. The other relinquishes all agency and leaves it to fate.

Ch. 1, p. 21:

Original line: やめて。見ないでください （Stop. Please don't look at me)

English line: Quit it. Don't look at me.

Which one of these feels like she's trying to avoid attention the most, the one most worried about their opinions? The one who's pleading with the crowd, or the one ordering them to stop looking at her?

It seems like one of them can totally stand up for herself, while the other can only beg to be ignored.

She can retort when people talk to her

That's largely, if not exclusively, a rewrite quirk. Given that she has such a strong personality in the rewrite, this whole "She's shy, and really worried about how people see her" doesn't work.

im going to note, it seems no one here has ever met someone who uses Snark and Sarcasm as a defensive mechanism.

She's not doing that.

Ruri is clearly a limited extrovert

We call that an "introvert".

 

[knatten555]

I can relate to ruri, I met a guy once who really didnt like me, unfortunately I didnt have the guts ruri has and I just left it at that, but I really just wanted to do what ruri is doing and ask what was wrong

Had a coworker tell me to my face that he disliked me the second day working together. asked him why and what I had done and if there where anything I could do to fix it, he refused to answer because I would hate him if he told me and it would make working together difficult.

Turns out telling someone you can't stand them and refuse to elaborate are a great way to make them start using you.

 

[Andigo]

Ruri wants to not be disliked? That's arguably a dragon trait. Fixation on respect is the about what to expect out of a local diety, Ryu or Long. Be thankful Ruri isn't withdrawing her athletic blessings from sports day, or asking to be worshipped.

...And she missed her slit eyes this long? I can't make a dragon excuse about that one. What is wrong with this girl...

Translation vs Localization. Vs Commerce. Comments and even arguments can be enriching to read because I prefer culturally accurate translations, but this manga isn't all that different. A story 50% about social skills is ground zero for the systemic issues and tradeoffs in localization, up to rewritten conversational styles and asides. It can be annoying. The Viz edition is still good, and may target the same age bracket as the original (at least when sold as volumes).

 

[Omnicrom]

I got a kick out of Ruri not noticing her own pupils had changed because I totally buy it. Ruri has a really interesting energy to her and this chapter brings it out yet again.

I do appreciate that the chapter makes no bones about Maeda being too judgmental. At the same time I do appreciate she seems to hold herself to some standard of objectivity and is willing to change. She walked back what she said about Yuka because she was flat wrong and was willing to soften up on Ruri at the end. I think they may not end up as "friends" per say, but that's honestly fine, they don't have to. At the same time I suspect Maeda may end up being forced to rethink how she deals with people, she honestly seems kind of miserable and her know-it-all "straight shooter" approach is the exact sort of thing we have the word sophomoric to describe.

 

[Lustrist]

a mentality like maeda's makes you bitter. dont be like maeda!

 

[Koana78]

I've known people like maeda and they suck. They're quick to dislike someone off of an assumption without even speaking to them. That bitch rant about a girl who saw her as a friend was something else too. Seriously maeda can get bent

 

[anf]

Ch. 1, p. 20:

Original line：目立ちませんように... (Roughly: I hope I don't stand out).

English line: Okay... I'll try not to make a scene...

Which strikes you as meeker? The one where she makes a plan to blend in, or the one where she quietly prays not to stand out?


One implies a level of agency- as if the situation hinges on her behavior in some way. The other relinquishes all agency and leaves it to fate.

Ch. 1, p. 21:

Original line: やめて。見ないでください （Stop. Please don't look at me)

English line: Quit it. Don't look at me.

Translating 目立ちませんように as I hope I don't stand out makes no sense here. She knows she's going to stand out, she has horns on her head. On page 19 she even says there's no way she wont stand out "…やっぱ目立つかなあ." and she says right before going in "視線を感じる."

Your version would be "I'm definitely going to stand out." followed by "I hope I don't stand out." it makes no sense lol.

In the second one, she's not meekly pleading for them to stop looking... she's just saying it stiffly. She's not used to being the center of attention or even talking to that many people, so even though she knows it's going to happen, it catches her off guard. She's clearly not meek like you want to portray her as since in literally the next panel she straight up corrects a dude super bluntly - ”お前何そのツノ”　“生えたの。お前って言うな”

Her actions are clearly of someone who isn't meek. She acts like she doesn't like being the center of attention, but she's not really an introvert. An introvert would never confront someone like maeda the way she does.

I get that you want to put her in a box and you feel this translation doesn't fit that box, but you're just plain wrong about her. You've cherry picked a few lines that don't match up perfectly to what you think they should be translated as and are completely convinced her "core character" has been changed. It hasn't. You're just hyper focusing on those lines and completely forgetting about literally everything else she is doing and saying. There's clearly a reason you've never done something like this and looked at the greater context of these lines you're roughly translating.

Also, she just is kind of snarky.

 

[SuperOniichan]

I've known people like maeda and they suck. They're quick to dislike someone off of an assumption without even speaking to them. That bitch rant about a girl who saw her as a friend was something else too. Seriously maeda can get bent

I hope that the manga doesn’t slip into the realm of narutotherapy and in a couple of chapters we don’t find out that Maeda is now her most devoted best friend and nakama, lmao.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Translating 目立ちませんように as I hope I don't stand out makes no sense here.

Take it up with the Japanese, because that's what that means. Yeah, it's kind of a vain hope. Vain hope is all she's got when she's this meek, and the horns that obvious. On it's own [Verb]ように is basically the speaker hoping whatever the verb is, occurs. In this case, it's not standing out.

On page 19 she even says there's no way she wont stand out "…やっぱ目立つかなあ.

I didn't really see that, but it doesn't really matter.

"視線を感じる."

Your version would be "I'm definitely going to stand out." followed by "I hope I don't stand out." it makes no sense lol.

It makes perfect sense. The meek girl just woke up to a ridiculous change in her body, and is now dealing with the creeping inevitability that she's going to be the center of attention in her own class. It's bad enough with strangers glancing at her as it is. Now her classmates are going to swarm her and... well, bargaining's all she's got.

Her actions are clearly of someone who isn't meek. She acts like she doesn't like being the center of attention, but she's not really an introvert. An introvert would never confront someone like maeda the way she does.

Yeah, this is what we call "Character growth". The Meek Ruri is breaking out of her shell to try talking to someone. That's why everyone was shocked. These chapters are about her trying to be better than she was, and the trigger was some girl who just doesn't like her for no apparent reason. In the raw, Ruri's meek, withdrawn nature, combined with a healthy dose of projection from the bitch, has our poor loner being given way more shit than she deserves, and she understand that, at least in some part, she's responsible for it.

Rewrite Ruri just got called out on her shit. Now she's in damage control mode, and the "localizer" now has to retcon the shit out of her character.

P.S.: Introversion is just a trait wherein people find social interactions draining. Introverts don't have to be incapable of dealing with conflict. Case in point: I'm an introvert.

I get that you want to put her in a box and you feel this translation doesn't fit that box, but you're just plain wrong about her.

Look, I appreciate that you speak some Japanese, but clearly, you haven't grasped the soul of the language itself, and you're stuck trying to correct someone who's been learning it since before you even knew what a "Japan" was. I know their idioms, figures of speech, and general attitudes are confusing to you, but that's because you're still thinking in English.

My guess is you'd translate a line like ”よし!　顔もいい頃合いだ. 次始めるぞ as "Alright, it's a good time for your face. Let's start the next one"- which is a similar mistake that the translator for ItaiAmai (Don't look it up) made in Chapter 29. And all that because technically 頃合い means "appropriate time".

I offered to go line by line with another guy on Discord. That's actually an implicit standing offer I make for basically anyone that wants to talk translation. If you're up for it, I'm free basically all day, every day.

You've cherry picked a few lines that don't match up perfectly to what you think they should be translated as and are completely convinced her "core character" has been changed. It hasn't. You're just hyper focusing on those lines and completely forgetting about literally everything else she is doing and saying.

I'm actually avoiding going line by line for people who don't speak the language, and aren't interested in discussing it. Like I said to the other guy: You want me to go line by line with you? DM me. We can do a thing on Discord.

Otherwise, it's a lot of work to break everything down, just for the other guy to ghost, or insist he knows better despite not speaking the language.

So you calling, or you going to complain that I didn't break the chapter down, word for word?

There's clearly a reason you've never done something like this and looked at the greater context of these lines you're roughly translating.

Done something like ｗhat? Translate? You do know I've been translating manga for over a year now, right? You've probably read some of my work.

 

[residentFATBOY]

So, her reasoning for hating Ruri has nothing to do with her not caring about others and everything to do with her looks and having a close friend she's content with. Cool character.

 

[residentFATBOY]

🐝

 

[Rgal]

I'm not a Communist, so I'd never be hired.

Ah yes, "Communists", a demographic that VIZ media caters to and hires from exclusively, apparently

Yeah, I'm sure that that's why you wouldn't be hired and not any other reason.