RuriDragon - Ch. 19 - A NonHuman Substance

[AngryMarbles]

All this talk of Ruri's "toxic biochemical" is throwing me for a loop. x.x
It's not meant to be used against humans, so it wouldn't work, except it could??? Wha???

Her biological defense does not match either venomous or poisonous real life self-defense mechanisms:

Toads are technically poisonous as they release toxins from specialized glands near the back of the head when threatened. While some, like the cane toad, are especially toxic, ingesting the poison produced by any kind of toad can have potentially lethal consequences for pets (yes, I saw the post talking about using toad venom as a recreational drug). The only similarity with Ruri is the effect of the poison.

Spitting cobras spit actual venom as a self defense mechanism, except cobras spit venom from their fangs and the venom itself is a neurotoxin, not a hallucinatory agent. Typically, venom must enter the bloodstream to cause an impact, which is why snakes don't poison themselves, but for spitting cobras the target is the eyes. I'm guessing this is how Ruri is supposed to use her toxin?

The closest real life example I can find is from birds that spit acid as a self-defense - not venom, acid. This form of self-defense is mostly to drive away predators, so it just stinks more than anything and might make the target sick.

You're telling me, that Ruri spits toad poison like a bird??? What???
The whole reason it works for toads is because it's secreted outside the body - ingesting it is what causes poisoning.
Is that why they're calling it "venom" like with the spitting cobra?
But then why doesn't she spit it from her fangs?

I feel like these and other questions will not be answered. x.x
(Also, don't mind me, I'm sure half of what I'm saying here is not entirely correct anyway.)

Mom called it dark magic, so I would not think about the logic too hard.

I have an idea for how the venom is meant to be employed: boil it with fire breath to produce a cloud of hallucinogenic gas. I believe that's why it's considered "dark magic" - while dragons in this series clearly have fantastical powers, they could also use "nightmare gas" (a la the Scarecrow from Batman's Rogue's Gallery) to make themselves appear even more fearsome. Someone unfamiliar with the effects of the gas would be convinced that the dragon somehow used "magic" to turn all of reality into rainbow spiders.

 

[Wildtale]

I have an idea for how the venom is meant to be employed: boil it with fire breath to produce a cloud of hallucinogenic gas. I believe that's why it's considered "dark magic" - while dragons in this series clearly have fantastical powers, they could also use "nightmare gas" (a la the Scarecrow from Batman's Rogue's Gallery) to make themselves appear even more fearsome. Someone unfamiliar with the effects of the gas would be convinced that the dragon somehow used "magic" to turn all of reality into rainbow spiders.

Describing it as "dark magic" for the above reasons makes sense.
However, that doesn't help to justify how the trait works unless it's taken literally.

My biggest complain right now is that they're describing the toxic substance as "venom" when it does not fit the description of venom:

Venom is injected directly by an animal, whereas poison is delivered passively, such as by being touched or ingested (source).

Unless she's accidentally releasing venom from her fangs and unwittingly ingesting it, the substance should not be called "venom" but "poison". I think I get the reason why the mangaka went with venom. Afterall, I have never heard of a poisonous snake or lizard, only venomous ones. Yet, not even the Komodo dragon spits on enemies, and it's bite is toxic simply due to all the bacteria in its saliva (EDIT: Or venom, possibly, from glands inside the jaw (source).

Basically, if it's actually venom, Ruri would have to spit in an opponent's eyes - something that tossing cookies doesn't lend itself to. If it's poison and can be absorbed passively, she would be feeling the effects herself since she ingested it. But even though several creatures spit up acid, it's not that either because of it's hallucinogenic properties.

I really hope we get some clarification next chapter. x.x

 

[MrJc]

Yet, not even the Komodo dragon spits on enemies, and it's bite is toxic simply due to all the bacteria in its saliva.

Just want to point out but this isn't true.
Their venom stops yours blood from coagulating. You end up bleeding to death or at least to the point to where you can not fight anymore.

The whole reason people thought it was bacteria in their mouth that killed water buffalo was due to them first believing that such a large reptile wouldn't have venom sacks. Second, water buffalo with non life threating injures from them would die from infection. The only issue was that they didn't take into account that the water buffalo when scared and hiding, hide in stagnet poo and piss filled water. You can see where the infection comes from.

 

[Wildtale]

Just want to point out but this isn't true.
Their venom stops yours blood from coagulating. You end up bleeding to death or at least to the point to where you can not fight anymore.

The whole reason people thought it was bacteria in their mouth that killed water buffalo was due to them first believing that such a large reptile wouldn't have venom sacks. Second, water buffalo with non life threating injures from them would die from infection. The only issue was that they didn't take into account that the water buffalo when scared and hiding, hide in stagnant poo and piss filled water. You can see where the infection comes from.

Thank you for the clarification, but it would seem that even the venom of Komodo dragons is still being researched and it isn't clear as to how it works exactly (source).

Regardless, my point that Komodo Dragons don't spit still stands.

 

[MrJc]

Final part I'll say since this is pretty off topic but we do infact know what the venom is and what it dose to the animal. It's just an anti coagulate that helps with bleeding and causes shock in its Victims. We just don't know much about how it affects humans blood.

 

[RZx2]

Describing it as "dark magic" for the above reasons makes sense.
However, that doesn't help to justify how the trait works unless it's taken literally.

My biggest complain right now is that they're describing the toxic substance as "venom" when it does not fit the description of venom:

Unless she's accidentally releasing venom from her fangs and unwittingly ingesting it, the substance should not be called "venom" but "poison". I think I get the reason why the mangaka went with venom. Afterall, I have never heard of a poisonous snake or lizard, only venomous ones. Yet, not even the Komodo dragon spits on enemies, and it's bite is toxic simply due to all the bacteria in its saliva (EDIT: Or venom, possibly, from glands inside the jaw (source).

Basically, if it's actually venom, Ruri would have to spit in an opponent's eyes - something that tossing cookies doesn't lend itself to. If it's poison and can be absorbed passively, she would be feeling the effects herself since she ingested it. But even though several creatures spit up acid, it's not that either because of it's hallucinogenic properties.

I really hope we get some clarification next chapter. x.x

Well in this case let's consider the following:

For a poison to count as venom it must require being injected.

According to the professor It IS poison and even the mother confirms it (at some point during the conversation in the car she said "poison and venom have any number of roles" and they continued referring to it as "venom").

If the professor could identify it as venom and not posion, he would have to know how dragons use it (by injecting it through bites or stings), which only brings us back to the theory that the professor knows more about dragons than he admits.

...Either this or the very hospital that treats Ruri (which apparently has experience with dragons) warned the professor and the school that it was venom and not posion.

It's also possible that Ruri's mother warned the school about all the possible traits so that there would be someone prepared in case of an emergency (but in that case why not warn Ruri too??...so as not to worry her about possible dangerous traits perhaps?)

 

[AngryMarbles]

The primary difference between poison and venom is that poison is a Defense Mechanism (fucks up predators who bite/touch you), whereas venom is an Offense Mechanism (fucks up prey that you bite/inject). I don't see why "inhalation via gas" can't be a viable delivery mechanism for meeting the definition of venom. I know that the academic definition of venom specifies biting/injection, but toxic gas could also be deployed in an offensive manner that befits venom.