Ryoumin 0-nin Start no Henkyou Ryoushusama
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As much as I like isekai, there's nothing like a good, old fashioned fantasy. In typical manga fashion, he'll probably hang on to his virginity until their tenth anniversary, but other than that,
The king just took advantage of him, allowing him to be the lord over an empty plain. Looks good on paper and for PR: War hero awarded fiefdom for his glorious service. Of course, the king had to rely on the guy being as dumb as a rock to pull it off.
Really, the first two chapters were actually pretty good. Oh, the MC is somewhat over powered, but it's brute strength and humility. I mean, could YOU bring down 30 to 40 stampeding buffalo with just a battle axe?
For those wondering about a woman wanting a man that would feed her: that's basic anthropology. Primates are people that have developed the social matrix of man = hunter, woman = nurturer. Not having to provide for the children because he is doing it makes her job a lot easier with child-rearing.
The king just took advantage of him, allowing him to be the lord over an empty plain. Looks good on paper and for PR: War hero awarded fiefdom for his glorious service. Of course, the king had to rely on the guy being as dumb as a rock to pull it off.
Really, the first two chapters were actually pretty good. Oh, the MC is somewhat over powered, but it's brute strength and humility. I mean, could YOU bring down 30 to 40 stampeding buffalo with just a battle axe?
For those wondering about a woman wanting a man that would feed her: that's basic anthropology. Primates are people that have developed the social matrix of man = hunter, woman = nurturer. Not having to provide for the children because he is doing it makes her job a lot easier with child-rearing.
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I'm so impatient for the English translations of this series that I'm Googling the Spanish-To-English translations.
This manga takes a romanticized but inverted view of tribal life. In real nomadic tribes, ALL the life-sustaining work is done by the women. They tend to the livestock, find and obtain water, forage for daily food (wild cereals and root vegetables), make the textile and household items (including the tents), and manage the resources in general. The men help with herding, which mainly involves walking (or riding if it's an equestrian tribe) around with a whip and just watching the flock, and they occasionally help with work that require some muscle. Most nomadic tribal livestock are natural herd animals, so they basically herd themselves, and once the camp is set up there is little for the men to do besides herding the livestock. They occasionally hunt, but most women can hunt just as well. In fact, in most tribal societies the women do more of the hunting than the men. Daily hunting is done with a combination of traps and light projectiles that require little muscle power to use. Seasonal or annual hunting is done by mass herding of large animals by the entire tribe. Men are actually of little use in the daily life of the tribe and serve a secondary function in securing livelihood. Golden Kamuy shows this perfectly.
Men's real job in the tribe is to fight. The biggest threat to nomadic tribes is other humans, both nomadic and settled. Nomads need large swathes of land to graze their livestock, so they need to protect and take land all the time. That's why all their men must be able to fight. That's also why men's bows in nomadic tribal societies are invariably warbows; draw weights over 60 lbs. This is not needed for any kind of hunting where the target is not able to shoot back.
A side note here, but there is this myth in the US that the First Nations sold land because they didn't understand that land could be owned. That's poppycock. All tribal societies place great value on ownership of land. Plains Indians had direct relationships with settled nations in what is now Mexico, and those guys not only held land, they built fortresses. What the First Nations couldn't understand was that it was possible for small numbers of distributed settlers living outside walled cities to rely on an unseen standing military to defend them. Nomads defend their own and use their own to take others' lands. The idea that a faraway group of men totally dedicated to warfare would be willing to protect scattered farmers was alien to them. This was also the exact same problem North Asian tribes faced when the first armies of the Zhou started marching into their lands, although in their case they had time to consolidate into great khanates able to organize an effective resistance and later conquest of their settled neighbors.
This is where another misconception comes into this manga. Nomadic societies place great value on physical beauty of both men and women. Men's real job is to fight, so handsome men are sought after because they tend to be charismatic and charismatic men can easily draw followers. We see this a lot in modern societies as well, including in manga where riajuu are always moving in flocks. Well, translate that into a nomad society and you get the handsome and fit boys riding around in warbands driven by charismatic leaders. If you're a young woman married to a handsome boy you have a better chance to end up as the wealthy wife of a powerful warlord down the line, especially during times of external threat when everyone wanted to consolidate to offer effective resistance. Otoyomegatari encapsulates all the nomadic values perfectly when it presents Amir's brothers as total hotties. THEY HAVE TO BE, in order to hold their position in tribal society.
I live in Indonesia where these tribal values are a big problem in islands outside of Java. Four, maybe three generations ago, many tribes still fought each other regularly and all the men ever did was fight. The women did all the work. Back then it was fair because they did need the men to fend off real threats. Nowadays there's the police to settle disputes and if tribes go to war the army would come to stop them, so the men are effectively unemployed. Yet they still insist on behaving like they're still warriors like in the old days. They spend their lives lounging around smoking and drinking and cockfighting. Sometimes they organize hunting parties, but boar meat doesn't sell for much in mostly-Muslim Indonesia, and the deer are protected by law. So the women suffer and the men waste away their lives. There are ongoing efforts to fix the situation with education and training, but change will take a very long time.
So what about the values of masculinity described in this manga? Well, they are ironically those of settled peasants. Peasants generally don't care about looks because in peasant societies men do carry the burden of the work. Farming is mostly a man's job, and women generally tend to the house and serve the needs of the men. That's why physical strength and diligence is sought after in men and good cooking skills are sought after in women. Looks don't last in a peasant society where harsh living conditions very quickly erode any sign of youthfulness.
Men's real job in the tribe is to fight. The biggest threat to nomadic tribes is other humans, both nomadic and settled. Nomads need large swathes of land to graze their livestock, so they need to protect and take land all the time. That's why all their men must be able to fight. That's also why men's bows in nomadic tribal societies are invariably warbows; draw weights over 60 lbs. This is not needed for any kind of hunting where the target is not able to shoot back.
A side note here, but there is this myth in the US that the First Nations sold land because they didn't understand that land could be owned. That's poppycock. All tribal societies place great value on ownership of land. Plains Indians had direct relationships with settled nations in what is now Mexico, and those guys not only held land, they built fortresses. What the First Nations couldn't understand was that it was possible for small numbers of distributed settlers living outside walled cities to rely on an unseen standing military to defend them. Nomads defend their own and use their own to take others' lands. The idea that a faraway group of men totally dedicated to warfare would be willing to protect scattered farmers was alien to them. This was also the exact same problem North Asian tribes faced when the first armies of the Zhou started marching into their lands, although in their case they had time to consolidate into great khanates able to organize an effective resistance and later conquest of their settled neighbors.
This is where another misconception comes into this manga. Nomadic societies place great value on physical beauty of both men and women. Men's real job is to fight, so handsome men are sought after because they tend to be charismatic and charismatic men can easily draw followers. We see this a lot in modern societies as well, including in manga where riajuu are always moving in flocks. Well, translate that into a nomad society and you get the handsome and fit boys riding around in warbands driven by charismatic leaders. If you're a young woman married to a handsome boy you have a better chance to end up as the wealthy wife of a powerful warlord down the line, especially during times of external threat when everyone wanted to consolidate to offer effective resistance. Otoyomegatari encapsulates all the nomadic values perfectly when it presents Amir's brothers as total hotties. THEY HAVE TO BE, in order to hold their position in tribal society.
I live in Indonesia where these tribal values are a big problem in islands outside of Java. Four, maybe three generations ago, many tribes still fought each other regularly and all the men ever did was fight. The women did all the work. Back then it was fair because they did need the men to fend off real threats. Nowadays there's the police to settle disputes and if tribes go to war the army would come to stop them, so the men are effectively unemployed. Yet they still insist on behaving like they're still warriors like in the old days. They spend their lives lounging around smoking and drinking and cockfighting. Sometimes they organize hunting parties, but boar meat doesn't sell for much in mostly-Muslim Indonesia, and the deer are protected by law. So the women suffer and the men waste away their lives. There are ongoing efforts to fix the situation with education and training, but change will take a very long time.
So what about the values of masculinity described in this manga? Well, they are ironically those of settled peasants. Peasants generally don't care about looks because in peasant societies men do carry the burden of the work. Farming is mostly a man's job, and women generally tend to the house and serve the needs of the men. That's why physical strength and diligence is sought after in men and good cooking skills are sought after in women. Looks don't last in a peasant society where harsh living conditions very quickly erode any sign of youthfulness.
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@sssr Thank you for your insights, it was an interesting read.
I wonder however if the situation depicted in the present work would not be the logical evolution of the behaviour of a nomadic tribe when it is faced with an enemy they cannot hope to defeat, they have to live hidden because of the MC's kingdom, so their men do not have to fight. Would it not thus become normal for women to seek reliable men as ideal partners?
Do note that in any case, the crux of these endeavors, be it seeking potential charismatic warlords, or reliable strong men, is to ensure the survival of your lineage.
@Oompedho Ah yes, our magnificent french words :^)
@mrcat25 the cat in your profile picture either needs help, or is about to sneeze. And I wholeheartedly agree, this feels refreshing indeed.
@Siquall Pantsu!!!!! A propos de ton nom d'utilisateur, c'est une référence de Banal Fantasy 2?
I wonder however if the situation depicted in the present work would not be the logical evolution of the behaviour of a nomadic tribe when it is faced with an enemy they cannot hope to defeat, they have to live hidden because of the MC's kingdom, so their men do not have to fight. Would it not thus become normal for women to seek reliable men as ideal partners?
Do note that in any case, the crux of these endeavors, be it seeking potential charismatic warlords, or reliable strong men, is to ensure the survival of your lineage.
@Oompedho Ah yes, our magnificent french words :^)
@mrcat25 the cat in your profile picture either needs help, or is about to sneeze. And I wholeheartedly agree, this feels refreshing indeed.
@Siquall Pantsu!!!!! A propos de ton nom d'utilisateur, c'est une référence de Banal Fantasy 2?
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@sssr
Really, one of the biggest pratfalls is thinking that these nomadic cultures were a monolithic race. Even the Mongolian hordes came to be after Genghis united them after brutal inner-tribal conflict. Another issue is lumping together tribes that aren't nomadic as well. The stereotype of Indians and tepee is one such example; disregarding pueblos, hogans, igloos, longhouses, etc. And they did indeed adopt other skills such as animal husbandry when it suited them. Basically, the truth is far more complicated. However, I think the author is attempting basically a simplified Dances With Oni, so it'll probably be a romanticized view of this lifestyle. Also, Oni were probably chosen since they covet strength beyond anything. Probably should have swapped that word with masculinity: female Onis are known for it even when they are sometimes more slender than the males. Also, if I remember correctly, the Manhattan island sold for beads story is a half-truth. Apparently the tribe that received payment was different than the one who owned it. So they basically sold out a rival tribe and had them displaced for their own benefit.
@Fenrire
Some indigenous people put up very good resistance. Zulu and Maori notably kicked the shit out of the British for a bit, and there was Custer's last stand. The last one was more stupidity, since Custer for some asinine reason ordered his men to dismount. Obviously the best way is to unite and use terrain advantage, and though it may displease them, any technology appropriated. It couldn't happen in North America though, since roughly 80% of the indigenous tribes had no resistance to pathogens and got wiped out. My tribe (Lumbee) was a bit more fortunate. They crossbred with the settlers, gained resistance to their disease and alcohol, and did fairly well selling them tobacco. Also were never booted off their land since they live (and still do) in the swamps.
Really, one of the biggest pratfalls is thinking that these nomadic cultures were a monolithic race. Even the Mongolian hordes came to be after Genghis united them after brutal inner-tribal conflict. Another issue is lumping together tribes that aren't nomadic as well. The stereotype of Indians and tepee is one such example; disregarding pueblos, hogans, igloos, longhouses, etc. And they did indeed adopt other skills such as animal husbandry when it suited them. Basically, the truth is far more complicated. However, I think the author is attempting basically a simplified Dances With Oni, so it'll probably be a romanticized view of this lifestyle. Also, Oni were probably chosen since they covet strength beyond anything. Probably should have swapped that word with masculinity: female Onis are known for it even when they are sometimes more slender than the males. Also, if I remember correctly, the Manhattan island sold for beads story is a half-truth. Apparently the tribe that received payment was different than the one who owned it. So they basically sold out a rival tribe and had them displaced for their own benefit.
@Fenrire
Some indigenous people put up very good resistance. Zulu and Maori notably kicked the shit out of the British for a bit, and there was Custer's last stand. The last one was more stupidity, since Custer for some asinine reason ordered his men to dismount. Obviously the best way is to unite and use terrain advantage, and though it may displease them, any technology appropriated. It couldn't happen in North America though, since roughly 80% of the indigenous tribes had no resistance to pathogens and got wiped out. My tribe (Lumbee) was a bit more fortunate. They crossbred with the settlers, gained resistance to their disease and alcohol, and did fairly well selling them tobacco. Also were never booted off their land since they live (and still do) in the swamps.
Just as a reminder though, while I understand that using RL examples to try to understand what's going on with the world building in the manga is unavoidable to some extent, we really shouldn't solely use those examples to judge what's going on in this manga, especially since magic is a thing and that there are so few translated chapters out (only 3 as of now).
For example, the whole thing about the Oni not caring about looks as long as the other person is useful, using what we've seen so far, I've yet to see an ugly oni, even the guys we see in Chapter 2 are honestly not bad looking, between 7 and 9 as far as I can tell. So the answer to that could simply be that ALL Oni of marriageable age are attractive, so relying on that alone for survival would be silly, especially after they almost got wiped out by the kingdom they were fighting.
Another example would be why the women would stay home while the men go out, with magic this makes sense, if there's someone at home to maintain defensive magics such as barriers, then there's a sense of security. Why women though? Well, babies, if I have to be brutally honest. Assuming that the only thing that's needed to maintain a barrier or something along those lines is the presence of an Oni, or that they need to be checked and maintained every so often, then using the gender that is expected to at some point in their lives be unable to range too far due to their developing child is the best option. Well, that or maybe only female oni can use magic in the first place. Either way, it's a neat parallel to the Onna-bugeisha of Japan, who were expected to take up arms solely to defend their households against marauders and the like.
So, that's my 2c in this, I mean don't let it stop you guys from enjoying the discussion, it's pretty neat stuff I'm reading and learning, but just keep the above in mind as well. Have a good one!
For example, the whole thing about the Oni not caring about looks as long as the other person is useful, using what we've seen so far, I've yet to see an ugly oni, even the guys we see in Chapter 2 are honestly not bad looking, between 7 and 9 as far as I can tell. So the answer to that could simply be that ALL Oni of marriageable age are attractive, so relying on that alone for survival would be silly, especially after they almost got wiped out by the kingdom they were fighting.
Another example would be why the women would stay home while the men go out, with magic this makes sense, if there's someone at home to maintain defensive magics such as barriers, then there's a sense of security. Why women though? Well, babies, if I have to be brutally honest. Assuming that the only thing that's needed to maintain a barrier or something along those lines is the presence of an Oni, or that they need to be checked and maintained every so often, then using the gender that is expected to at some point in their lives be unable to range too far due to their developing child is the best option. Well, that or maybe only female oni can use magic in the first place. Either way, it's a neat parallel to the Onna-bugeisha of Japan, who were expected to take up arms solely to defend their households against marauders and the like.
So, that's my 2c in this, I mean don't let it stop you guys from enjoying the discussion, it's pretty neat stuff I'm reading and learning, but just keep the above in mind as well. Have a good one!
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The oni remind me of native americans
@blacksuit23 I figure they are supposed to be more inline with like nomadic mongols and similar central Asian nomads. They use yurts, have a society largely based on sheep and plains living, and so on.
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@CBC I don't think it has much to do with attraction as more of a pragmatic sense of being useful. Where I come from women tend to view work ethic, being a good potential provider over physical attraction. Shit, my uncle was 20 years older than his wife, had a bit of a ponce and was a little past his prime when he married my auntie(who was incredibly attractive in her youth). You see this alot in less developed societies(Mexico, Indonesia, parts of India) where life is hard and women want a provider above some good looking dude that's useless when it comes to farming or work. In medieval societies women tended to stay at home more frequently and help out in the homestead but I get what you mean with the magic element.
