1) What exactly did MD do wrong? Admin admitted chance of going legit is extremely low and they'd only go for it if they can keep most if not all series (not happening).
2) If they do get to go legit and unofficial stuff are removed... So what? Do you know what happened when Fakku and CR went legit? Nothing. People still do fansubs and scans licensed stuff and non-licensed stuff. Batoto v3 starts here.
3) if the claim that they owe $3000 is real then you should definitely not support them because they make bad decisions and basically throw your money away. Legally obtained raw is not as expensive as JB claims. I can buy tanks/mags for $1-2 USD per volume.
I can keep going if you want but here's at least 3 points.
Yeah, I mean, the Jap publishers would do their thing and pressure, surely, but still, think it could be worth trying. Alternatively, they could just do what MU currently does and keep track of group releases, anyways.
But honestly MU still seems like the best option for EOPs to follow updates as it's platform/scanlator independent and tells you the group name still at least, so you can just google the group name quick and get a link to their site when a chapter comes out. Literally about one extra click at the end of the day.
100%. MU has always been the shit. Kinda hurts that most people reading this post right now probably don't even know it exists. Most readers don't really care where they read their manga anyways. They just want to know when new chapters get released. What's probably more necessary for the readers is to have a place that points them to the right direction. Simply knowing where to get it and which group is releasing it is usually enough for them. Scanlators who don't want to upload chapters here could still notify the readers through MD, even if they don't link the chapters directly. Just a link to the group's website would be enough, I guess. I don't get why hosting everyone's releases is that important, when you can just point the directions instead.
I think none of the scanlators know what they're talking about, I mean I've never scanlated or contributed to it in any way but I think it's silly that they think they deserve rights or something, I mean they're doing illegal work so they're all criminals. I think Mr. Manga Dexter is in the right here.
@sastrathebest The main cause of this drama was that one scanlator group asked the staff to mediate in a conflict with another group (meaning, to punish another group for indirectly attacking them) and the staff refused to do anything because it's their policy to not interfere in scanlator drama, which is more than fine.
The staff is here to keep this place working and deal with the truly troublesome elements of the community, not to be the scanlators' kindergarten teacher and send the kid who called them a dummie to the reflection corner. Either grow thicker skin or deal with this bullshit by yourselves, I assume you are always free to take it to the forums and discuss this stuff here.
I'm still struggling to understand how a dumb credit page caused this mess. Talk about overreacting.
Me : Ah shit here we go again.
Mangakalot, Kissmanga and other aggregate sites : You couldn't live with your own failure and where did that bring you? Back to me.
@frostblood you must not read many light novels. The manga community might not be as bad (which manga arguably require more work) but the LN community is ripe of paywalled good TLs and paywalled crappy google TLs.
I have no issue with people getting donations and the like. I donate. But many have turned fanscanning into a business. Making bank off it.
Read the original post, they left because "MD is going legit and just using us til they can and then drop us"
From an outsiders POV Md seems to give alot of control to fanscans. Don't want your work here, alright. Want it delayed..cool. Anyone was free to leave whenever they wanted. I'm really not sure why they did this other than to stir the pot.
I finally read the entire thread and I still think you're all clowns. All this does is take traffic from mangadex and give it to KM and other ad-infested aggregates. No one is going to save 15 other group websites and join 15 group discords just so they can read it. People will take the path of least resistance which happens to be aggregates with EVERY manga on it.
@abnas106 Whoever was behind those DDoS must be feeling like a retard now. Imagine wasting time and money trying to fuck up the site with some shitty bots when the overblown ego of certain people is a million times more effective and also free.
If this does end up causing some harm to MD, I hope the ones responsible send their bill to those aggregator sites because they clearly owe them some money.
@jasonwander yeah ln is ripped real good lmao. But it's not as lucrative and mangadex is known for Manga... Machine TL is more common in novels because it's less effort to machine tl it and give it a quick one over for grammar (to say nothing of plot or names or places etc) but from what I hear from the scanlators themselves it's their choice to do whatever they want as you said and they're sick of the drama here and so they're leaving and that caused a shit ton of drama. The scanlators made a statement, whether it's true or not doesn't matter in this scenario as we are focused now not on what they said but rather what we think they implied...
As a reader, I don't understand this sense of entitlement/jealousy from the scanlators. What's discontinued/taken down from here will be available in other aggregator sites. The only ones the scanlation groups are hurting here are themselves.
Heh, jokes on them. 95% manga that I read here are from scanlation that doesn't ask for money.
I'm a scanlator/translator too and I don't ask for money. Scanlation should be done for fun. Just like those Twitter mangaka who publish their work for free, not just focused on money.
That's bound to happen if your getting profits from something that is owned by someone else and not have rights to do so your obviously going to be called out. No matter where you are in the internet.
The best respond for such provocation would be simply ignore it and not take it too seriously.
Now those groups who feel slighted are trying to "expose" MangaDex with a combination of information that was already publicly available, misleading statements, and outright bullshit.
>That group of scanlators gets revealed as the profiteering pricks they are.
It's always been about the shekels and e-peen (and memes), literally no other reason to scanlate unless you're a masochist.
But to do it just for money instead of treating it as a side-bonus is a bit silly really because the shekels that one gets are usually pretty minimal, (though not sure how profitable the patreon shit is for the groups that have dozens of members and can put multiple chapters out per day, with however they split the dosh). Same with h-commissions, one can get maybe $2 a page tops if they're decent, which for a tank might come out to $400~ for probably 60+ hours of work, quite less than minimum wage. Just get a real job if you want cash is what I usually tell the hopefuls on /a/.
But I guess if you're some ESL SEAmonkey where the annual salary is maybe $5000 then you're talking big money with all this though, with the ability to survive off it, which might explain how srs bsnss some groups treat it.
In any case if the whole scene fractures and there's no one decent aggregator with most content on it like Shitoto or this place, all it will really help are the neo-Tazmo rippers/ad-whoring-sites. In a perfect world EOPs would go to each group's site to get shit, but let's be honest 90% of EOP readers are bottomfeeders who never cared where they got their shit from even before all this #dramabomb garbage and probably never used MD in the first place, and have neither the willpower or intelligence to find the source.
Yeah, it's good, and proving itself better now with the fracturing that may be happening. But as per the above paragraph it's not as popular as it should be because again bottomfeeders and 12 year olds are the main target audience for a lot of this shit, and they all want their shit in some easy to use shitty app these days or one-click website. Do hope it does stick around at least, hopefully bandwidth costs aren't too high for them considering they don't have to host any chapters or the like.
There are no heroes in this tale. MD and scanlators are both operating in legal gray areas by either hosting stolen, illegally translated work or translating the work themselves illegally. If MD goes legit, I will just use another aggregator. At least I know that I am not in it for altruistic reasons. I want to read unlicensed and licensed manga for free. I can accept ads as long as they are not malicious or intrusive. Everyone cheerleading about translating and/or hosting for altruistic reasons for the good of the community needs to get off their high horses. Admit that the majority of you are in it for the donations and/or that you want to monetize content that you do not own by hosting it.
Oh, is it that time of year again for some juicy drama queen shit? I get the feeling it was scummy JB hiding behind that Anon OP post.
I honestly don't see what these apparently for-profit scanlator groups (and others that are bandwagoning) are so butthurt about. Like, are you doing this for because you're manga fans like most of us who prefer to read high-quality manga (conveniently centralized in one place), or are you doing it for recognition credits (to the detriment of even using ugly watermarks), ad revenue, donation profits? I'm willing to bet it's the latter, because it wouldn't matter where or when releases are posted (cancerous aggregators included) if you were only trying to share your passion for your favorite series. It's as if mangadex linking directly to the groups' websites when they set 24hours to 2 weeks-long delays to drive traffic there, wasn't already bending over backward for them!
If your group buys original raws/have your own reader server/website hosting/blog/whatever which you pay for...I don't see how your crowdfunding platforms like patreon donations don't already cover that on a monthly basis.
"Oh noes, mangadex wants to go legit! run for the hills! They're coming for our mangos money!" they'll say...LOL. What a weak-ass argument. Need I remind people that before Batoto died (who also accepted donations) also removed several series on a regular basis after they were officially licensed in English? People have to realize that nothing is forever. Who's to say this site wouldn't one day disappear without warning after making enemies with a powerful entity? Going legit someday, adapting, and evolving, is the best way to prevent against that and stagnation. Speaking of going legit, it's not like SEVERAL haven't tried and failed, so what's wrong even having a pipe dream, however slim? That, and supporting the original creators/authors/artists should always remain paramount. To mangadex: Just don't make the same mistakes that alienated a good chunk of fans of many other companies that went legit like CR did. So long as non-official releases (especially the more obscure and defunct titles that don't exist anywhere else anymore) still have a home even after going legit, and a user-driven database for series info (even if you need to make a sister site) everything is cool IMO. And let's be real, if MD did follow the CR and Fakku model, by buying up licenses and purging all of the non-official scanlated stuff, then several more pirate sites would just pop up fighting for dominance again, just like when Batoto and Nyaa died, so it'd be pointless. But in the ideal world, both official and non-official scanlation works together supported by the publishers on one platform--would be the best solution...but for the chances of that ever happening, I believe MD already knows how nigh impossible that is better than anyone else. Pipe dreams are just that...don't take it too seriously as if it's some kind of evil master plan in the works like Planned Obsolescence.
Full disclosure (since I hate hypocrites the most) I myself also have a patreon as a scanlator, but I don't care if it one day disappeared, because making a profit was never my goal...I'd simply just start saving up again if I wanted to continue buying raws or feeding my own caffeine addiction out of my own pocket (which I already mostly do, but it's nice to be treated to a drink here and there from the handful of dedicated supporters who appreciate what I do), while my full-time day-job goes to my crippling student debt (I may laugh at it, but I cry inside).
@Zephyrus
The only thing this really hurts are the readers.
You can say that again. Not only that, it'll only help embolden the cancerous aggregators who don't give a rat's ass about anybody but themselves.
1. If a publisher can place an exact value to it, they will feel that they are losing said value. That is why Meraki got hit with a C&C, because the publisher got them. If we don't give them an opening, they will most likely decide we're not worth it.
I've known about that for a long time. I thought it was common sense, but apparently not. That's just something I naturally picked up from reading about lawsuits with ludicrous arbitrary amounts being sued for, sometimes literally for "hurt feelings" or "emotional distress" as some call it. Never give your opponent ammo to use against you.
@GalladeGuy
All this will do is drive more people to aggregator sites. Nobody is going to look at your sites because nobody wants to check 20 different manga sites every day. Even if you don't like Mangadex, they at least credit you for your work and don't try to make money off of it with intrusive ads.
^THIS! It'd be a shame...if somebody else sniped the series your group was working on, and uploaded to mangadex, lessening traffic to your sites even more.
correct me if i am wrong please
to make a quick summary of what i understood here:
>groups got hate for having a delay for releases on MD
>groups got mad that MD staff didn't do anything about those haters
>some retards harassed groups that didn't upload on MD or left MD while deleting all their work
>holo said that JBs decision of not uploading to MD is irrational and that people should contact him for comments and or criticism (which makes sense cause they can't change anything about JBs decision)
>someone feels like they were forced to use MD instead of their own sites (even tho some of them already had 2 week delays which is pretty much ''forcing'' people go to their site already)
>in their rage they confuse themselves and get emotionally hurt that MD will go legal if the possibility is there
>they get mad that if MD would really go legal they would hire the good groups for translation (why do they get mad about that)
>some rant about how they want to stay at the situation of having all of the stories for free (some comparison to fakku, a hentai site that went from fan translations to a legal pay to view system)
>some long ass text about them deleting all their work from MD (which they were always able to do btw so nothing special tbh)
>a list with all the people quitting MD too
and now (if this lemming train gets bigger) the pleb reader needs to either have 50 sites bookmarked again or use some cancer aggregator with ads pushed into your face
so the only one profiting from this are aggregator sites that no one likes
btw i support what holo said there, it's irrational to not upload to MD when the only other big library sites you have are cancer and if you don't wanna upload to anywhere aside from your own site no one stops you from doing that?
MD staff didn't force them do remove their 2 week delay on MD afaik, the people just got mad that they had to wait for so long on MD (which i don't understand but hey that's how they are)
so i don't really get what problem they have with MD now tbh
i guess they want 0 criticsm, or something idk
TL;DR
People should grow some goddamn thicker skin. It's like they've never been on the internet before. "Muh hate"....That's what the block button is for 🙈. Even emails have a block functions. Then there's also the option of having no delays entirely 🤔. For the small minority getting death threats from ungrateful leechers bitching about delays:
I'm so happy that the group I'm in is on the same page about this. It's all so ridiculous, especially when many of us don't even take donations, let alone get ad revenue from websites we'd have to end up paying to run.
