Sekai Saikyou no Assassin, Isekai Kizoku ni Tensei Suru - Vol. 2 Ch. 6.1

Dex-chan lover
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,756
@Happily_Grim

Because that's the only two choices, really. Either this important, meant-to-be-focused-upon plot villain/mastermind/super-antagonist. And trashy mooks who don't know what they're in for.

It's not just for the reaction of 'oh no they rape', but also because they're in a position of power and it's satisfying to see their power fail them. Who asked them to abuse power?

Every kind of villain has been done to death already. All kinds of antagonist have been explored. All of it is already cliche, and anything else is largely unfitting and either nonsensical or a waste in the slot it's been forced into.

That's my take, anyway. I prefer trashy throwaway villains of little consequence. Not everyone is important, and bad people should just be bad, win or lose. I don't need Rando Grunt #537 having anything more complex to him than being an asshole who's probably going to get a boot shoved up his ass while doing something only an asshole would do - regardless of what it is.

I mean, what else would it be? Random thugs in back alley holding someone up with a gun? That was cliche in the 40-50s on radio dramas. We generally understand them to be bad for enjoying random acts of unnecessary violence on innocent people. Considering how society's molded our way of thinking, what is more innocent than a scared woman (regardless of it's true or not)? Merchants shady dealing? Done to dead. You wouldn't find corrupt nobles where the protagonist is just happening by, usually - but people already screech about how common those are, too.

I'm still on the old 'villains are just plot devices' bandwagon from way before people started riding the villain-fanboy bus, so I'd like to hear what you think would be a better option that hasn't been super cliche for awhile or recently.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
597
So you go on about horrible things happening to the kids in your story and proceed to give a forced, intentional butt shot?
How can literally everything this author is involved in be so damn trash?
 
Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
53
This manga is really giving me the same vibe as warlock of the Magus World. A cunning MC, reincarnation, harem that he uses for his own advantage etc.
 
Active member
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
755
@Kayriel
- You still seem to think that anything different immediately means it has to be complex, or requires some huge expositional motive; or even that by virtue of their deeds being different they're somehow important. I never even made any sort of claim that there's numerous other categorical distinctions besides what's important and what's not. Having different ways to show a character is bad doesn't somehow elevate their status in a story.

You also seemingly want explain to me out of no where the power dynamics as if I were somehow unaware why they were doing it -- or that I would literally think it was for any other reason. Of course they're in a position of power. Of course it's nice to see people abusing power receive retribution. Who's saying otherwise, though? All I said was it would be nice if it wasn't the default choice. I feel it's lazy not only because it's harder to find a story without it than with it, but also because it's the go to answer to the question you posed later: "what is more innocent than a scared woman" -- one who is innocent, scared and about to be raped. It's a solution meant to prey entirely on those societal constructs and get a cheap reaction. It's sole purpose is to invoke those feelings of protection or vulnerability as quickly as possible; mainly because the use of regular violence has been normalized through other medias -- so it no longer triggers the same response.

You even make a it sound like I'm advocating for some revolutionary new villain, but that i'm somehow unable to notice that everything has been done before. Once again, I never even made any suggestion or claim otherwise. I'm more than well aware of common tropes and cliches. That should have been elucidated by the very topic and conversation we're already having.

I also enjoy the throwaway villain of little consequence. But I'm still not saying that they need to be important, and have fully developed character arcs. I don't understand how anything I've said would even indicate otherwise. All I've repeatedly said is that it would be nice if they were creative with their choice of why they're bad. For some reason you're equating that with some grand elaborate thing that it's not. I'm fine with being served shit, but it doesn't mean I have to say that it tastes good. If a throwaway villain doesn't matter much to you I don't understand why you care so much that I'd like some variety in them while maintaining the staus quo.

As for what else would it be: it could be anything. A ton of these stories take place in worlds that aren't even our own. They have magic, superpowers, different sentient creatures, superstitions, religions, different values, monsters, laws, etc. It's free reign to create anything a person can imagine; with the only prerequisite being that it's relatable. It doesn't even have to be particularly original -- the bar isn't set very high after all.

It's fine to think of something relatively simple and still think of it as a plot device for a villain. I don't know why you think that puts me on the villain-fanboy bus. That just seems like a cheap insult meant to invalidate a person for expressing a different opinion. While a lot of what you said was for the express purpose of making points that weren't even up for contention to begin with, your last line just seems like you thought it was some sort of hot-take to end on. Almost a silly way to antagonize. Which is sad, because I feel like we actually agree on a lot more than we disagree.
To put it plainly: It's bait.

You seem more intent on being right about how my opinion was wrong than anything else. Even after I've tried to explain it as just being how I feel, and what I would like -- twice. In my opinion you don't actually care about what I respond with as long as it gives you the leverage to prove why it's bad or how I'm wrong. That's the only purpose for prefacing it with provocation to get a response, and ending with an indefinite timeframe. If I ignore it you can point it out; if I answer you can come with a myriad of ways I'm wrong; and finally, if I choose to confront it like I am now you can point out how it's not. It's bait through and through.

However, I'll still throw a simple idea out there that would get the point across:
In this world children have an often desired trait. As long as they're below a certain age their natural mana has a higher purity regardless of if they can use magic or not -- it's intrinsic to all life. Because of this it would also stay accumulated in their hair -- which would often be sold after a cut. It had many uses in medicine. However, there was also another spot it would gather with a much higher potency. Their finger and toenails. The trade of these were highly illegal, but also far more valuable. The chance to get paid even more on top of taking the children in and then forcing them to work was well worth it to those who didn't care.
There's a quick and easy way that can be used. You can refine and edit any of the minor details to better suit whatever. It still gets a basic picture of a shit person across. It could easily fill the same amount of space as well.
Anyway, I'm off to take a snooze, have to get up early.
[Mod Edit: Spoilered wall of text; added linebreaks for clarity.]
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
1,528
this mangas about an assassin being isekai'd to kill a hero by a suspicious goddess, it was edgy to begin with
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
2,351
I liked this chapter, and I love her character; glad she's getting a backstory, and I can hardly wait for her to deliver the comeuppance.

Y'all bringing the walls-o-text need to seriously chill; nobody needs a nuance critique of an Isekai Manga. It's just a monthly isekai, kids. Damn.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,756
@Happily_Grim

Cut down on the attitude, I was literally making conversation because I wanted to see what your thoughts were on the subject. Starting to sound a little pompous there, instead.
 
Active member
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
81
Weirdly cathartic seeing @Happily_Grim living out my alternate universe actions for me, but that formatting sure hurts to look at.

Anyway, yeah, bad guys dealing in human trafficking threatening to defile a scared, little girl is just a worn-out shortcut leaning on shock to corral us into feeling a certain way. And it sucks.
(I'm still waiting for the story to finish putting down all the foundational building blocks so we can cash in on the promise of the premise, though.)
 
Double-page supporter
Joined
May 5, 2019
Messages
52
@Chizan
The MC gets hired to assassinate Dia VIcorne but this is kinda a good thing because...
Dia does end up as his sister later on
This might need an incest tag...
Do not read these spoilers if you really don't want to know because the way I worded them it makes me a terrible person :D
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top