Senryuu Shoujo

[kurisu]

@crazybars
nothing like trying to educate a bunch of translators and people who actually know Japanese

 

[ckrit]

@crazybars

Hey 10/10 for effort milleniumbug, but you failed.
The word for manga is usually dropped when referring to shojo itself
as an noun for the Genre of Young Girls comics. LIKE I SAID.

It actually doesn't say that in any Japanese language dictionary. That usage is entirely in English only (and other Western languages I suppose).

１ 年少の女子。ふつう7歳前後から18歳前後までの、成年に達しない女子をさす。おとめ。「多感な少女時代」「文学少女」
A young girl. Typically between around 7 and 18 years old; not yet of age.

２ 律令制で、17歳以上、20歳（のち21歳）以下の女子の称。
In the Ritsuryō system, the name for a girl between 17 and 21 years old.

I used to use it like this in Japanese often too, but I usually got blank stares until I said 少女漫画 or something similar.

 

[LuffyKun]

This comment section is a joke

 

[AviKav]

@crazybars

Even better, you could have confirmed that the ENGLISH usage of Shojo
WHICH I WAS USING, usually means the genre.

Meaning...?

EVEN IF I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE JAPANESE USAGE, I would still be right and you'd be wrong.
(And you'd probably still lose, since the English Usage is based on the Japanese one)

It's fairly clear that the intended meaning of the Japanese title, which would be intended for Japanese readers, would be Senryu Girl. Not Senryu Romance.

And you'd probably still lose

What exactly is there to win?...

 

[Gadac]

Wtf is going on here

 

[jonsmth]

Wtf is going on here

Someone got angry about the title of the manga while having wrong knowledge of a Japanese term and people corrected him. He probably got embarrassed with his mistake but decided to double down on his error thinking that it would somehow save face.

 

[Sleepii]

To be fair I do understand what crazybars is saying to a degree. I prefer when titles are either fully in Japanese or fully in English unless the Japanese thing uses English words like Boku No Hero Academia. When mixing Japanese and English for titles it makes me think of “All according to keikakku”. It just feels awkward.

Also to the people saying the official translation has it as Senryu Girl, keep in mind Komi-san was officially translated to Comi-san yet the people here decided to keep it as Komi-san, so official translations don’t really matter that much.

 

[AviKav]

@sleepii

 

[Sleepii]

@AkiKav ? What is that screenshot for? The official name is Comi-san the fan translation is Komi-san.

 

[crazybars]

@ckrit

Mmmmm. . . . . context is very important in Japenese. You can actually find Japanese people using Shojo as describing the Shojo genre if you go hunting on Amazon Jp in reviews for Shojo Mangas. ( I even hunted and found a top Reviewer use it on a Fruits basket jp listing review in here) dated --> 2/7/2019 for anyone who wants to use a wayback machine to check.

==> https://www.amazon.co.jp/Fruits-Basket-Vol-Natsuki-Takaya/dp/1595324038

Plus, Japanese is full of contextual slang because the one to one Chinese to Japenese adoption resulted in massive language bloat.
Formal Japanese is full of redundant specifying that is usually dropped in normal conversational and informal Japanese.

It's true it's not in the Japanese dictionary, I won't fight you there. Context matters, even the usage of formal versus informal Japenese changes things.

For example, this title.

==> https://mangadex.org/title/18577/boku-no-kanojo-ga-majime-sugiru-shojo-bitch-na-ken

The problem you see is, Kanojo is in the title as well. . . . . and well, that means girl. Does shojo mean girl too then? Are they using young girl, girl, etc? Nope, context changes the meaning.

 

[crazybars]

Hey guys, do you remember when Lymus posted Senryuu Girl was the Author's official choice for a name?

And I said fine, I accepted it even though I didn't like it?

Apparently MOST OF YOU DIDN'T!!!!!!

@Retard_
Hey silly, go use your eyes. I already posted that I accepted the author used a grammatically incorrect title when Moderator Lymus posted about it.

THAT DOES NOT MEAN IT's GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT.

But I did accept it is the author's choice since Shojo is a double definition word.

@AviKav

Ha ha ha ha

I post multiple paragraphs, and you post nothing and only one relevant sentence that you could have answered by reading the post .

 

[crazybars]

AGAIN GUYS, I already accepted the Title is Senryuu Girl, because the author chose the literal meaning of the title and not the contextual one.

Stop beating a dead horse, Lymus already posted that, I agreed with his reasoning to use Senryuu Girl.

@kurisu

Kurisu you silly duck.

Only ckrit had a credible answer. Go read my posted response to his, he's not wrong, that actually was a good response, but it's not right either.
-------------------------
The rest of the responses were not using logic or citing sources.
Or double checking my work.

They are..... rather lacking.

 

[kurisu]

@crazybars just once again, there's no contextual title here, it's literally what it means and there's no other way to interpret it.
You were fighting a battle you couldn't win, because you don't know japanese.
First you assumed Shoujo somehow meant Romance, it does not
All your sources were English ones, and you can't be right with those.
Now, @ckrit only told you what every single one of us did, but you still claim him to be "wrong."
I dare you, show me your Japanese sources and knodledge to prove me wrong.

「少女」ってのは「若い女性」の意味を持ってるなので、お前は間違っている。
そんで、もし俺間違っているって君が思うなら　指摘してください。

 

[AviKav]

@crazybars

The problem you see is, Kanojo is in the title as well. . . . . and well, that means girl. Does shojo mean girl too then? Are they using young girl, girl, etc?

Blue - Synonyms:
Azure, cobalt, sapphire, cerulean, navy , saxe, ultramarine, lapis lazuli, indigo, aquamarine, turquoise, teal , cyan

I post multiple paragraphs, and you post nothing and only one relevant sentence that you could have answered by reading the post .

The intent was to ask to why the English usage of a Japanese word would bear relevance when translating the Japanese meaning into English. Or at least to provoke such a question...

The author chose the literal meaning of the title and not the contextual one.

This is the contextual meaning.
The author intends for the title to describe a girl that write Senryu. English meaning does not change that intent.

AGAIN GUYS, I already accepted the Title is Senryuu Girl.

Accepted?...

 

[crazybars]

@kurisu

You apparently have no eyes. I already answered that.

Apparently I don't even need to use my knowledge of Japanese because you're simply blind.
This is a battle you can't win simply because you fail at logic 101
---------------------
Text from my response to ckrit post:

"Plus, Japanese is full of contextual slang because the one to one Chinese to Japanese adoption resulted in massive language bloat.
Formal Japanese is full of redundant specifying that is usually dropped in normal conversational and informal Japanese.
It's true it's not in the Japanese dictionary, I won't fight you there. Context matters, even the usage of formal versus informal Japenese changes things. "

Yeah, apparently, you can't READ
----------------
What else? Oh right!!!

Why don't YOU instead PROVE my English sources and dictionary curators were NOT CREDIBLE THEN

Where's YOUR citation or source saying that the 200+ year old Encyclopædia Britannica are hackjobs who don't faithfully translate Japenese nuance into English. Where's your sources saying the rest of them are not professionals?

Go ahead, prove it. You said it, now prove all of it!

 

[crazybars]

@AviKav

Yeah.. . . . . . I did accept Senryuu Girl as the title.

Senryuu Girl is the literal definition but yes, the Author chose that definition.
Once the author declared which definition he wants in English, it becomes the official name as there's no speculation as to which definition from Japanese he wants ported to English readers.

And you are DAMN right about that synonym spam.
That's PRECISELY what I MEANT in my original post way back about the titles.
There's a lot of words in Japanese that mean multiple things, the same characters are used but the context immediately changes their meaning. Even THE FORMALITY can change the usage and definition damn it!!!!!

Shojo became shorthand for Shojo Manga because the Japanese magazine and manga industry historically omitted the word
漫画 out of 少女漫画 and similar titles have similar parts omitted to save on printing costs in the past. You don't need Manga or Magazine on the title of a Manga or Magazine right? That was the thought process back then.

 

[void216]

I guess according to crazybars Mahou Shoujo means magical girl manga.

 

[DjAlexDubCheck]

I see I was ultra right blocking this retard months ago 😁

 

[Teasday]

@crazybars Are you for real

Even if "shoujo" can be sometimes used as shorthand for "shoujo manga" in some scenarios, that absolutely does not mean it has to always be the case.

You have to be willfully ignoring the entire context of the work to come to that conclusion. Nothing at all about the plot or the content of this manga has anything to do with shoujo manga. It does, however, prominently feature a girl who speaks in senryuu. A senryuu girl, if you will.

This isn't exactly difficult

 

[crazybars]

@Teasday

Teasday, this fight has been going on for 5-6 pages of forum posts over months after I said I agreed with them, months ago. . . . . . .

The title is Senryu Girl because the author said so, the author intentionally chose the literal title. There's was no ambiguity anymore since Lymus posted that the author chose that title.

I literally posted for 5 pages, with 2 essay's worth of explanations and links to language dictionaries, links to Amazon Japan, explaining the history of why shoujo is slang for the Genre, why I think the context fits better but people aren't reading it.
The problem is that Shoujo= 少女 is literally just the characters Little and Girl together. In Chinese and Japanese, that's as generic as you can get so context, especially slang usage is especially important.

That combo of characters by itself is so generic for example, it's used for girlfriend, little child (girl), small (used as physical adjective) girl, girl of no importance (used as size of importnace) and so on in Chinese and Japanese.

Let it go.

@DjAlexDubCheck

I see I was right to never friend you.

You seemed like a backstabbing dick even back then.