Senryuu Shoujo

[Teasday]

@crazybars

It literally matters none whether or not shoujo is a shorthand for shoujo manga (which, by the way, is not a genre any more than "Young adult" is a genre so you're already wrong about that too). A word having multiple meanings does not mean that any one of the available meanings is actually a possible correct translation.

The title is Senryu Girl because that's a correct translation, regardless of whether the author said it or not. The context of "shoujo manga" does not in any way, shape or form fit this work better than simply "girl" because manga aimed at the demographic of young girls has nothing at all to do with the content of this manga. There is nothing about this work that would even imply shoujo manga is so much as a possible context for the title. Senryuu Shoujo Manga or Senryuu Girls' Manga would be unambiguously a mistranslation. 少女 being composed of two kanji is not in any way a problem, it's a dead simple, very common word. There's no slang involved here and to read it otherwise is to pull extra meaning out of thin air.

Let it go.

I only heard about this silly exchange yesterday lol

 

[crazybars]

@Teasday

It says genre in manga updates, but okay, demographics it is.
. . . . Yeah, Senryu Girl's target demographic is Shounen.
Again. . . . which is why I accepted Senryu Girl as an acceptable name.

The thing is though, Japenese titles don't always follow the demographic's rule either, so I couldn't
just say oh, shoujo must mean girl since the demographic is shounen.

I shoujo
https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=108206

Mouryo Shoujo
https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=146787

Totsukuni no Shoujo (One of the titles even has love . . . . . like I proposed.)
https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=125484

==================================
As for Shojo being shorthand, ho.. boy. That's what actually I've been fighting with people calling me idiot about this. This WAS a real thing.

The oldest references were originally shorthand for actual Shojo magazines from the 1900's back when Shojo Sekai, Shojo no Tomo and similar magazines started.

http://shojo.wikia.com/wiki/Sh%C5%8Djo_Sekai
http://shojo.wikia.com/wiki/Sh%C5%8Djo_no_Tomo


Shojo being to be used as shorthand to indicate Young Girls Romance Manga in Japan dates back to the 1950's? 60's? Back when Star Trek was on? I don't remember, but basically over time manga chapters were printed into the shojo magazine format, hence the legacy name shorthand usage in informal Japanese.

 

[Teasday]

_{@crazybars posted:}

As for Shojo being shorthand, ho.. boy. That's what actually I've been fighting with people calling me idiot about this. This WAS a real thing.

Yeah, but even if I fully grant you this, I already explained why it's an irrelevant point. This manga has absolutely nothing to do with shoujo manga, therefore having it in the title makes no sense when a much more sensible translation exists. A word having a polyseme or homonym doesn't make it a viable translation.

 

[crazybars]

@Teasday

Yeah. . . . . all the fighting was pointless. I literally agreed with them on the title after a few posts. . . . .

We were fighting over a term technicality this whole time.
I get called out for being stupid over the usage of Shojo that I'm VERY certain of the historical backing of, I fight back, they fight back. It was really stupid.

I will just post more of my historical sources on Shojo as a shorthand term in Japanese and just . . . . try to ignore this thread.

===========================
Historical Sources On Shojo usage as Shorthand.

Age of Shojo (A good book, the description summarizes what I posted on how Shojo magazines turned into Shojo manga Tankobans)
http://www.sunypress.edu/p-6680-age-of-shojo.aspx

Someone posted a page from one of these Early Shojo magazines on Wikipedia (Note the lack of the characters for Magazine etc)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/be/Shoujo_November_1910.jpg

List of early Shojo is listed here (Apparently Shojo Kai was the first, Shojo Tomo lasted the longest though I think.)
http://tsoj.manga.org/anime/early_magazine_list.html

Outside source on 1950's to 1970's on Shojo manga's development into it's modern form.
https://comicsforum.org/2015/06/11/manga-studies-8-shojo-manga-history-the-obscured-decades-by-dalma-kalovics/

 

[Sanctuario]

FUCK, I DIDN'T NOTICE I REACHED THE LATEST CHAPTER REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[rayandikaa]

i need koto nee doujin h

 

[Freestyle]

Hanabi is always top tier

 

[armjoe]

Senryuu Girl is sweet
Too much sugar for my blood
I'm diabetic

 

[VoidR]

owie, my heart
truly, shes the cutest
i am now blessed

 

[gamras]

shouldn't this manga get harem genre tag? i feel like it needs one

 

[nhoctu97]

Sudden have a thought that Nanako like bad boy
so if Eiji is a real delinquent then he can take advantage of that and... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[dreand]

why nanako is so cute? i'm still reading , on chapter 31.

i cant believe it that the author made awesome job with nanako drawing

 

[Isekaijin]

N64 is retro now.
Aha... ahahahaha.

 

[Madologist]

Interesting cover for vol 8. Completely different feel to it compared to the previous ones. Even the style is slightly different. Gives off kind of a melancholic wibe, hope it doesn't reflect in the actual story.

 

[SpookiLurkr]

Vol. 8 cover looks super mesmerizing. Sunlight gives a nice balance to the cool colors. I can’t help but notice two things: Nanako’s eye color is changing between volume covers, and it seems like she’s got a thigh gap...?

 

[iamagaroze]

the anime for this is gonna be lit

 

[Serelanordir]

can somebody tell me the meaning of

through the tune of 5-7-5 syllables

on the description

 

[icmaniac]

FeelsBadMan, the anime uses the "old art style" that it has in the beginning, rather than the carefree art-style it currently has

 

[ckrit]

@crazybars Man, I saw your notification way too late, sorry.

Mmmmm. . . . . context is very important in Japenese. You can actually find Japanese people using Shojo as describing the Shojo genre if you go hunting on Amazon Jp in reviews for Shojo Mangas. ( I even hunted and found a top Reviewer use it on a Fruits basket jp listing review in here) dated --> 2/7/2019 for anyone who wants to use a wayback machine to check.

==> https://www.amazon.co.jp/Fruits-Basket-Vol-Natsuki-Takaya/dp/1595324038

You'll have to link me directly to said review, because I can't seem to find it.

Plus, Japanese is full of contextual slang because the one to one Chinese to Japenese adoption resulted in massive language bloat.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Japanese had no written form when Chinese characters were introduced, and they started being for their sound rather than their meaning around 650 AD (man'yōgana used in the Man'yōshū). It was never a one-to-one adoption.

Formal Japanese is full of redundant specifying that is usually dropped in normal conversational and informal Japanese.

It's true it's not in the Japanese dictionary, I won't fight you there. Context matters, even the usage of formal versus informal Japenese changes things.

For example, this title.

==> https://mangadex.org/title/18577/boku-no-kanojo-ga-majime-sugiru-shojo-bitch-na-ken

The problem you see is, Kanojo is in the title as well. . . . . and well, that means girl. Does shojo mean girl too then? Are they using young girl, girl, etc? Nope, context changes the meaning.

No, shojo here is not girl (少女 shoujo) but virgin (処女 shojo), so a condensed version of the title is simply "My girlfriend is a virgin." Even if it did say shoujo (少女), it would still make sense (somewhat).

僕の彼女が少女だ
My girlfriend is a (young) girl.

Works exactly the same in Japanese as it does in English.

 

[crazybars]

@ckrit

I will PM you about this.



I promised I wouldn't come back to the subject after posting my two last comments below this one.