Seventh - Vol. 2 Ch. 10.2 - Aria Lockwood (part2)

[kenrms]

1st LN volume is quite a slog honestly.

 

[RyoukoKonpaku]

even if it was possessing MCs body

That would've been hilarious and neat as a premise imo. Much more interesting too if that's essentially how one could access an Acestor's Arts so to speak instead of just learning them. It'd be like playing a fighting game that has tag-team mechanics with each ancestor having different playstyles while chaining the possessions to get pretty powerful results.

 

[Egakor]

That would've been hilarious and neat as a premise imo. Much more interesting too if that's essentially how one could access an Acestor's Arts so to speak instead of just learning them. It'd be like playing a fighting game that has tag-team mechanics with each ancestor having different playstyles while chaining the possessions to get pretty powerful results.

Spoiler

It was actually the original purpose of the jewel (letting the recorded soul take over completely). But the ancestors didn’t know.

 

[Giga]

Thanks for the chapter.

---

MC is fine, interesting even. Villain is a hateable piece of shit. Ancestors (especially #1) are incredibly hateable pieces of shit. The fact they invade and slow the plot to a crawl and also drain MC of mana stopping him from progressing the plot and asserting himself to an acceptable level is insufferable.

To get it out of the way first, I think the only one of the ancestors that's becoming a narrative tumor is the First. Like all the others, he has something to offer Lyle--but he did, and now he offers nothing but mindless vituperation (even one of the other ancestors pointed out his eagerness to attack Lyle) and similarly retarded behavior, all at Lyle's expense; in addition--and maybe it's just me--he also seems to cause the other ancestors' bickering, at times. The ancestors' role is a good idea, but the First embodies its poor execution--unless he, himself, is to serve as a hurdle for Lyle to overcome.

That aside, I'm happy to see someone actually acknowledge the fact I bolded in your quote. For a long time, many would forgive ANYTHING if the perpetrator was pedophile bait. What's more, this extends beyond lolicon: for decades now, authors have forgotten that villains are to be hated--you're not supposed to find them relatable, sympathetic, or otherwise likable. In this, Ceres was (so far) done correctly: she's pure, perniciously malevolent evil and operates accordingly; there's nothing about her that's meant to elicit favorable regard from the audience. The problem is that Ceres is written in a depraved era in which pedophilia is good as long as you call it "lolicon", and that the author himself is fond of "lolicon".

---

This sort of thing--what Aria is suffering and how she got to that point--is why I oppose the idea of unconditional filial piety. Many parents will respond to such piety with inimical behavior up to and even exceeding this, with the pious child having no recourse because the parent is effectively a god in that child's life. That profligate is a father only in the strictest sense; he didn't care that, through his own actions, he was setting Aria up to be taken. When it actually happens is far too late to suddenly be aware of that fact and full of concern.

 

[Phantaminium]

The ancestors' role is a good idea, but the First embodies its poor execution--unless he, himself, is to serve as a hurdle for Lyle to overcome.

What's more, this extends beyond lolicon: for decades now, authors have forgotten that villains are to be hated--you're not supposed to find them relatable, sympathetic, or otherwise likable.

For me it's a combination of these things. Villain-chan has invested me completely in wanting to see her broken and destroyed by MC after his training arc. The guidance from the ancestors is supposed to be putting him on that path but over far too many chapters there has been glacial progress on that pathway, not entirely but slowed significantly by ancestors discussions + mana drain slowing every event.

All the motivation towards seeing MC annihilate his sister is being wasted since we've barely even started building a solid foundation for MC. The nature of ancestors (but really the #1) being able to jump in and jumping in at every loose moment drains even more.

Even worse is it's quite clear where the story needs to go from here but we must needs wait.

 

[RyoukoKonpaku]

Spoiler

It was actually the original purpose of the jewel (letting the recorded soul take over completely). But the ancestors didn’t know.

Hope there would be cases that'd be used then, I feel like it'd be a missed opportunity if not done imo.

 

[keane6t4]

For me it's a combination of these things. Villain-chan has invested me completely in wanting to see her broken and destroyed by MC after his training arc. The guidance from the ancestors is supposed to be putting him on that path but over far too many chapters there has been glacial progress on that pathway, not entirely but slowed significantly by ancestors discussions + mana drain slowing every event.

All the motivation towards seeing MC annihilate his sister is being wasted since we've barely even started building a solid foundation for MC. The nature of ancestors (but really the #1) being able to jump in and jumping in at every loose moment drains even more.

Even worse is it's quite clear where the story needs to go from here but we must needs wait.

I feel like this series is the sort that would become far easier to enjoy as a large stockpile of chapters to read builds up instead of waiting two weeks inbetween the painful early content.

The original web novel was written in a way that a new chapter was updated online every single day for an entire year so the pace was able to cover for some of the stories glaring flaws that only got highlighted in manga form

Thanks for the chapter.

---

To get it out of the way first, I think the only one of the ancestors that's becoming a narrative tumor is the First. Like all the others, he has something to offer Lyle--but he did, and now he offers nothing but mindless vituperation (even one of the other ancestors pointed out his eagerness to attack Lyle) and similarly retarded behavior, all at Lyle's expense; in addition--and maybe it's just me--he also seems to cause the other ancestors' bickering, at times. The ancestors' role is a good idea, but the First embodies its poor execution--unless he, himself, is to serve as a hurdle for Lyle to overcome.

That aside, I'm happy to see someone actually acknowledge the fact I bolded in your quote. For a long time, many would forgive ANYTHING if the perpetrator was pedophile bait. What's more, this extends beyond lolicon: for decades now, authors have forgotten that villains are to be hated--you're not supposed to find them relatable, sympathetic, or otherwise likable. In this, Ceres was (so far) done correctly: she's pure, perniciously malevolent evil and operates accordingly; there's nothing about her that's meant to elicit favorable regard from the audience. The problem is that Ceres is written in a depraved era in which pedophilia is good as long as you call it "lolicon", and that the author himself is fond of "lolicon".

---

This sort of thing--what Aria is suffering and how she got to that point--is why I oppose the idea of unconditional filial piety. Many parents will respond to such piety with inimical behavior up to and even exceeding this, with the pious child having no recourse because the parent is effectively a god in that child's life. That profligate is a father only in the strictest sense; he didn't care that, through his own actions, he was setting Aria up to be taken. When it actually happens is far too late to suddenly be aware of that fact and full of concern.

I don't really care if the villain is sympathetic or not a long as they are an interesting character that being said i like how legitimate hateful and unreasonable she stays all the way to the end

 

[Phantaminium]

The original web novel was written in a way that a new chapter was updated online every single day for an entire year so the pace was able to cover for some of the stories glaring flaws that only got highlighted in manga form

That makes sense, if it was written at that pace the changes that people wanted would've slowly got introduced over time as well.

 

[Egakor]

Hope there would be cases that'd be used then, I feel like it'd be a missed opportunity if not done imo.

Spoiler

That function is not good since it’s essentially a complete takeover with no way to return. The only case where it’s used is in the WN (LN is on a hiatus). And the one using that function wasn’t Lyle.

 

[Jwardo]

why is this series still tagged as erotica? am i missing something? its a decent enough series so far but i cant help but notice the odd genre its been listed as for so long when so far it doesnt fit it

 

[Egakor]

Manga Volume 2 will be released on March 7th
https://www.kadokawa.co.jp/product/322411000843/

 

[Egakor]

RAW Chapter 11 Part 1 is up
https://comic-walker.com/detail/KC_005568_S/episodes/KC_0055680001200011_E

 

[Strela]

why is this series still tagged as erotica? am i missing something? its a decent enough series so far but i cant help but notice the odd genre its been listed as for so long when so far it doesnt fit it

It's either because Nagy used to draw for Lioncoeurl Senki which has several raunchy scenes and thus make the uploader worry about it, or it's the credit pages, you know the one that added nipples.

 

[Szaal]

for decades now, authors have forgotten that villains are to be hated

This is a rather mundane thing, but I disagree with the idea that villains are constructed to be hated. Rather, villains are there as obstacle for the hero characters to overcome, as foil of character, the what-if were the hero went down the dark path they should've not taken (cue Obi scene). The trait of being hated is just the side-effect of their purpose (because they are the opposition of the hero we are rooting for), but not all great villains written to be hated: Mortiary, the Joker, Hannibal Lecter, etc.

If we are to write someone to be hateable, well, we have the first ancestor right here. Or Aria's father. Neither of them are even written as antagonist, but I think anyone would agree that their characteristics are hateable.

What you wrote of villains as this pure force of malevolence, I think, is the traditional villain trope used more often in classical folktales. Nothing wrong with writing them, but it's not the only way to write a villain.

 

[Giga]

This is a rather mundane thing, but I disagree with the idea that villains are constructed to be hated. Rather, villains are there as obstacle for the hero characters to overcome, as foil of character, the what-if were the hero went down the dark path they should've not taken (cue Obi scene). The trait of being hated is just the side-effect of their purpose (because they are the opposition of the hero we are rooting for), but not all great villains written to be hated: Mortiary, the Joker, Hannibal Lecter, etc.

If we are to write someone to be hateable, well, we have the first ancestor right here. Or Aria's father. Neither of them are even written as antagonist, but I think anyone would agree that their characteristics are hateable.

What you wrote of villains as this pure force of malevolence, I think, is the traditional villain trope used more often in classical folktales. Nothing wrong with writing them, but it's not the only way to write a villain.

There are antagonists, and then there are villains. By definition, a villain is evil, and such an entity is usually opposed by a righteous protagonist--and in so doing becomes an antagonist. There is potential overlap between the two, but that overlap does not change the fact that a villain is someone evil.

Unless your morals are wrecked, the totality of a villain should not be appealing to you. Moriarty's mental faculties may make him formidable, yes, but his description is that of a psychopath. The Joker is similar, except actually unhinged: the popularity of postmodern "deconstruction" (and Hollywood's need for novelties) led to his becoming the protagonist of his own movie--with at least some of his depiction explicitly being that of a sympathetic character meant to evoke empathy as well; none of this changes what he is and does. Hannibal Lecter is presented favorably in contrast with a number of other characters in the setting (including at least one that's supposed to be a "good guy"), being refined and also formidably intelligent--enough so to engineer his own escape from captivity. Despite these, he's what everyone knows him to be.

So, yes--villains have been portrayed favorably for quite a while, but that doesn't change the fact that they're villains: part of the appeal of all of these characters, especially the last two (far more than Moriarty, as Western society only started venerating vice to this degree recently; this doesn't actually apply to him--not in the era in which he was written, anyway), is that they satisfy a lust for novelty and exoticism very widespread in today's society; there's been no easier source of this, for decades now, than the embrace of evil as "misunderstood" together with the rejection of good being the product of traditional knowledge that--in true postmodernist fashion--ought to be questioned and subsequently cast aside as invalid for being so long-held.

Of course, this can be done--as you said. But what you think's happening when flagrantly vicious character traits are given positive depiction in characters who perfectly embody those traits and act by them left and right, while the concept of the "flawed" hero--rife with traits at odds with his status as a "hero"--becomes just as commonly employed? What's the result of this juxtaposition constantly being exhibited in entertainment media?

"The villain's not so bad after all~" "The hero's actually a bad guy..." The product of this being repeated ad infinitum is why villainous conduct is not meant to be glamorized.

 

[Szaal]

Snip

Separating antagonist from villainy, huh. I admit the idea didn't cross my mind, now that you said it.

I vaguely remember a video-essay on the topic of anti-hero, villain-turning-hero, or similar tropes gaining popularity in recent decade because being the perfect, all goody two shoes hero is viewed as naive and unrealistic. Superman back in the days was very awesome, but as the audience mature, their view also matures and old-school Superman is seen as child's dream. Hence Suicide Squad, Batman v. Superman, and some other MCU or WB's movies that should be there but I cba to remember.

I wonder if the same view still holds right now. It felt like we, as the audience, is also graduating from that "adult grim" phase. Being childish is more fun, and so it gives rise to reboots for nostalgic values (though it also being intercepted with other certain values).

 

[Giga]

Separating antagonist from villainy, huh. I admit the idea didn't cross my mind, now that you said it.

The beauty of this reflects a beautiful truth in reality: as long as one's alive, there's always a chance to turn from evil toward good.

I vaguely remember a video-essay on the topic of anti-hero, villain-turning-hero, or similar tropes gaining popularity in recent decade because being the perfect, all goody two shoes hero is viewed as naive and unrealistic. Superman back in the days was very awesome, but as the audience mature, their view also matures and old-school Superman is seen as child's dream. Hence Suicide Squad, Batman v. Superman, and some other MCU or WB's movies that should be there but I cba to remember.

I wonder if the same view still holds right now. It felt like we, as the audience, is also graduating from that "adult grim" phase. Being childish is more fun, and so it gives rise to reboots for nostalgic values (though it also being intercepted with other certain values).

Doesn't it make you wonder why and how society's gotten to the point at which purely good characters are regarded as naïve and unrealistic? The point at which, even in fiction, the playground of the unrealistic, such goodness is unacceptable? The popularization of such a view wasn't a maturation, but a corruption: cynicism gripped society to the point at which virtue was rejected and vice had become exalted. (Of course, I'm not referring to the weak pseudo-hero, common in JP stories, that is so gripped by a sanctimonious fear of guilt that he'll avoid hard actions--hard actions necessary for justice--whose avoidance would, by all logic, inevitably result in more evil. Such characters aren't good, when you think about it: sparing a committed mass-murderer, committed to killing more should he escape justice, because killing gives the sparer the willies makes him an accomplice. Such a person is not merciful, but cowardly.)

But somehow, the idea that good is weak and corny was also popularized. Iustitia carries a sword with her scale for a reason.

That being said, it's the way of a child--the way of the immature--to seek one's own gratification without regard for morality or ethicality. Villains, in essence, embody the will to do as one pleases the same way--and this has become popular because of the recent spread of immaturity throughout society. People are realizing, however, that children can't run societies--the immature aren't the ones that possess the wisdom to understand that, in order to make things work, sometimes one's own desires have to take a backseat (sometimes, even a distant one) to what's right.