Shi ni Modori, Subete wo Sukuu Tame ni Saikyou he to Itaru - Vol. 3 Ch. 27.1

[comeonnow0]

@throwaway4ccount And you're totally right. It isn't you that has exposed yourself as a liar and a fraud. It's me. You have so much support. You're just so right.

 

[throwaway4ccount]

@comeonnow0 I do have support, from facts and evidence. Things that have yet to support you, and things that seem completely foreign to you, at this point.

The dictionary proved me to be correct, and that your accusation that I lied about what you said was actually the lie.

Red225 stated that I was correct that they still held their previous stance, and that their silence wasn't an admission that you were right and they were wrong. Your "logical conclusion" was found to be entirely incorrect.

The evidence also shows that I predicted you didn't really care about others, and were just posturing when you said you did. And what does the evidence say about that? It says that I was right about that, too. After all, you continue to prove yourself a liar in that regard with every post, since you continue to post, despite your claim to "be considerate of others" and you also stating that if you were to "continue to post" that it will "annoy other people".

Every post of yours continues to show that you aren't credible and shouldn't expect your words to be taken at face value, because you will lie to avoid admitting you were wrong, even when it has become obvious you are wrong.

If you do consider to post, I might post a bit of a recap of how we got to this point, a piece or two at a time, over the course of multiple replies. I would, of course, stop if you stopped replying, or pause it if you reply with any substance, to address that substance, before resuming.

 

[comeonnow0]

@throwaway4ccount Mhm. Yeah. I'm agreeing with you. You have so much support. Your position is just so great that it's obvious. No one wants you to stop. There's just so much greatness and knowledge from your posts.

 

[throwaway4ccount]

@comeonnow0 So here we start with a (hopefully) brief history of this discussion, and how it went from a discussion of whether or not it was reasonable to say Jere made the right evaluation and had the wrong response to that right evaluation, to one side abandoning the discussion of merit to just do personal attacks, and then go further to just responding with weak attempts at sarcasm. It went from claims of being reasonable, to displaying completely unreasonable behavior, including ignoring dictionary definitions. It could definitely be a cautionary tale for others to see, about how bad it looks when continuing to claim to be correct, but needing to avoid discussing the issues to hold that claim.

It starts, actually, with the thread of the previous chapter. In response to somebody saying he should have followed his criteria, comeonnow0 said: "The condition for passing is "show me enough skill to make me believe that you are capable of joining the knights". He explained why she lacks that skill, because she lacks experience. She failed BEFORE he began to intervene. At the moment that she started cheering? Maybe then.

Him going in and showing her inexperience demonstrates his point and explains why he made that decision, even if his decision was already made before."

So then this chapter occurs, and it turns out that comeonnow0 had asserted with confidence why Jere made the correct decision to fail her, only to find out that Jere had actually reached the exact opposite decision of the one comeonnow0 had defended. So now he has to either state that he'd been wrong, or explain why Jere was a great evaluator of strengths and weaknesses, but also to explain why Jere was so "wrong" to then do the exact opposite of what comeonnow0 thought he should have with that information.

When boiled down to the basics, the concept of Jere, the captain of the Knights, being exceptional at evaluating and horrible at knowing how to use that evaluation, though, it already starts as a bit of an unreasonable position. The progression of the debate with have to wait for another post.

 

[comeonnow0]

@throwaway4ccount You're just so totally right. That's exactly what happened. That's why you're so right.

 

[throwaway4ccount]

@comeonnow0 To continue the history, we then have to look at how comeonnow0 tries to frame the narrative, in order to justify the stance that Tina should have been failed. Previously he said to pass Jere's condition was "show me enough skill to make me believe you are capable of joining the knights." But now Jere states that she has demonstrated the skill to pass, so he needs to come up with some odd analogy to justify why she should be kicked out. He decides to settle on the example of a toddler throwing a temper tantrum and getting rewarded for it, to claim Jere is "enabling" Tina. To make that claim, he treats it as "enabling" if she gets a reward without acting perfectly. That isn't enabling, though, which really destroys his argument. "Enabling" requires there to be no indication of corrective action to take place. We see some, in Jere's demonstration to her, and can expect more in her joining the military.

To use an example of a toddler that actually is closer, it would be like if parents of a child were trying to get the kid to say some words, and they asked the toddler to say, "Father" or "Mother" and the child replied, "Fadda" or "Mudda". According to Comeonnow0's logic, celebrating the child saying that would be "enabling" poor pronunciation. That they need to rebuke the child's failures immediately and strictly. Then tell the kid to reflect, and try to pronounce the word again when he's ready. If they never did anything to correct the pronunciation, at some point it would becoming enabling of mispronouncing words, but that shouldn't be the default assumption (or even thought to be a "reasonable" assumption). Intead, celebrating a child's progress (and possibly repeating the word with correct pronunciation), and encouraging them to keep learning more words is the proper response, and as they improve you work on refining their pronunciation. This should be the default expectation.

Why is that example more apt? Because Jere rewards her for the abilities she shows, but there is no expectation that she is getting a pass for the parts she lacks. He demonstrates some of her failings to her in a practical way, which she shows she understands, and he welcomes her into the (Magic) Knights, where the expectation should be that they would continue to train with her to help her improve and refine her combat proficiency and forethought. If the Knights ends up being a place where they don't do any training for military involvement, then an argument can be made for enabling, but the default expectation (and the "reasonable assumption") should be that people in military units continue to get additional training for combat and tactics, and as such they will be correcting, not enabling, her flaws.

 

[comeonnow0]

@throwaway4ccount Yup. You're so totally right about that. You described it exactly as it happened. Completely right.

 

[OmniBear]

... shouldn't Erik also be sent to the magic knights?

 

[Minipels]

@OmniBear I guess he isn't sent there beacuse he doesn't have that much talent for magic

 

[Kojirremer]

Rayearth?

 

[raos044]

I can't believe he seriously pulled the "in a real fight" bullshit after going so far to establish that this wasn't one. Jere should be in the grave next to the other douche cause the manga has lost all it's enjoyment the moment he came into the picture.

 

[KTime]

Its a complete douche way of teaching that life is unfair

 

[Doomer]

i don't care if he says sorry or whatever justification he uses i hate this dude, he has been nothing but an asshole since he was introduced. MC seriously don't join him.

 

[Tonytakanawa]

I forget, what age tina in this chapter?

During the "sleep together" scene, it stated she was 18.