Shin no Nakama janai to Yuusha no Party wo Oidasareta node, Henkyou de Slow Life suru Koto ni shimashita - Ch. 63

[unfilteredjw]

she's a women.
what do u expect?

That incelly smell of something incelly.

 

[Rayla89]

Hope theodora dies. But im pretty sure author is going to make a redemption arc for her

Spoiler

There's really not. If it's anything like the anime, even after Gideon heals her, she still believes Ruti has to be the Hero and asks them to kill her for betraying them. They refuse, sort of make up, and everybody just kinda goes home.

 

[NLight]

Doesn't the blessing just give impulse and not brainwash ? ( my memory foggy tho )
And let's say it brainwash her, wouldn't she still kill everyone involved in the room since they worked with a demon aka what she is supposed to kill.
I know that the IQ of all the people in the room put together doesn't go past 8 but still.

No the stronger the blessing the stronger it forces you to act accordingly. The hero blessing being extremely more powerful than the rest makes you act against your own will even if it kills you. She is shown to sacrifice herself over a damn toy when she is young. She even pushes a kid out of the way of a monster when she is like 5, she is powerless and would die at that point, but the blessing forces her to act. Remember, she can't even smile or show emotion normally cause the blessing stripped those feelings as they are weaknesses. The only reason she is even there is because she took the drug from the demon earlier, easing the blessing's force. Remember, all she thinks about is her brother, yet for months, over a year, she has not been able to look for the one person she actually wants to look for. She came to the town to make the drug so she could look for her brother cause the blessing forced her to just push on. None of the other blessings forces them to just walk into enemy territory unable to even visit your family.

And no she wouldn't kill them. A hero would not kill humans, at least not the hero Ruti is. If she did she would have killed Ares in the first chapter for chasing away her brother. Remember, she even punched him to death at that point, but was forced to heal him by her blessing. So even here, she would kill the demon and just ignore Ares. She would probably run straight into demon territory without waiting for Ares though, as the other people in the party mentioned, Ruti doesn't need to eat or sleep and waited for them out of courtesy. The girl just sat outside the tent wondering where her brother was all night and then ran into the next army and butchered them on her own. The manga doesn't tell you how much they are on the clock, in the novel she has like this day to finish the drug or be forced to leave.

Also Theodora has no problems dying here as long as Ruti goes back. She is a crazy cultist at this point, if god told her to blow up a city she would. She has no family, no partner, no friends even, nothing except duty. The only one who wants to live is Ares cause he wants to reclaim his family heritage.

On a more spoiler note:

It is heavily hinted that the blessing kind of adjusts according to what you believe the blessing should be. A person who thinks a hero is like Batman will never kill anyone and always try to save them. While a hero who thinks a hero is like Deadpool actually might murder people in the way of their objective to kill demons. And Ruti is very much the former, that is what her brother has told her a hero is since being a child

 

[NLight]

Spoiler

There's really not. If it's anything like the anime, even after Gideon heals her, she still believes Ruti has to be the Hero and asks them to kill her for betraying them. They refuse, sort of make up, and everybody just kinda goes home.

Spoiler

They actually do in the novel. She goes off to fight the demon army on her own. She then comes back with a new hero and tells everyone she was wrong and that she needs help with reeling in the new hero cause she is awful in the guide role and the new hero is a lunatic.

 

[Raydnt]

No, I am not. However, life doesn't give the perfect lemons for a perfect lemonade.

If she does nothing, thousands to millions of little girls and boys never getting to grow up to sleep or even taste anything. Are you okay with that?



If it is just me? I would be okay with being the only death for her happiness.

But for all the people and their children in the world? No.



Well, if the demons killed my family and wiped my village. I am not going to go to the hero and say, "Although my family is dead and my entire village is wiped out. Its okay that they are dead because I realized, you wanted to be happy. You deserve happiness more than they deserve theirs."



Also, You say that I give off the stereotypical ignorant NPC villager vibe. But what do you think about the haughty selfish nobles who let their peasants die out for their own happiness? Those who let the peasants suffer, starve, and get killed by the enemy so the nobles can eat cake.

Ruti is giving off that vibes.



Completely true. Assuming that I am still roleplaying the villager, I don't make the rules. The other people of the world and I will be a consequence of whatever choices the hero makes.



Would you feel the same when your family and friends get killed because she didn't want to be the sacrificial lamb?

Even if my family and friends were killed, I wouldnt blame Ruti.

A little girl shouldnt have to sacrifice herself if she doesnt want to.

In a world like that, I would blame the world itself, not an innocent young girl

If you're okay being the only death for her happiness that's fine, that's your choice.

If a young girl showed up as a hero of her own violition saying she'll save the world, ill praise her on her bravery.

The thing is, and I can't stress this enough, Ruti has no choice.

 

[Rheeve]

I disagree. Ruti is a selfish brat.

Imagine your family and friends are killed by demons, and the reason is because the hero wanted to play house. Every day, demons attack and kill innocent people. To do nothing is to let them die.

So what if she didn't want to be the hero. No one is given a choice of where they were born to or what blessing they get.

Nah, Ruti just want to be a person with free will, which the Hero Profession will erode until she is just a machine.

 

[NLight]

Nah, Ruti just want to be a person with free will, which the Hero Profession will erode until she is just a machine.

Also important to remember, if you never had normal relationships with family and friends, how could you feel any sympathy with the people suffering? Her parents didn't love her, she had no friends, she sometimes had a brother, but usually was alone since he worked in the capital as a knight. Now if she somehow learned how to care for the people around her, then she might actually want to protect people. If she knew what a normal life encompassed, then she might feel sorry for people whose normal life was threatened.

 

[tigerstar186]

You know... Theodora is painted as the bad guy, but I don't disagree. If you decide your personal actions and freedoms are worth more than the lives of thousands, you're a bad person. Is it fair that Ruti has to be hero? No, it's fucking horrible. But there's not any other choice. Everything we've seen in this world has pointed to the hero being necessary, it's not just some fake role they push all the work on. She's literally the strongest being, and has a responsibility to act as such. "With great power comes great responsibility." I think people are just turned off by her points because she gives reverence to a shitty god and the story doesn't really pay attention to her arguments by making her side with actual evil instead of giving her her own moment.

I think this whole story would be easier to swallow if there were literally any sign Ruti wasn't necessary, like there having been past heros without the hero's blessing, or a sign the hero wasn't actually necessary like the demon king not being actually a threat, or a sign that they had some way to change the system of blessings as a whole... But that hasn't been shown to be the case in this series. Heck, there isn't even a reason she can't just... finish the demon lord and then chill with her brother. Ruti is condemning thousands to death so she can hang out with her brother a little bit sooner.

 

[AnotherDuck]

So she's fighting on that side. Wonder why.

After she explains, still wonder why. There's a better time for that than when they're fighting actual evils.

Choice between his wife who's in real trouble, and his sister who's holding her own. What choice?

You do realise that roughly 90% of the world's problems are/were caused by those zealots?
Whether it be religious, political, or Science™ ( which, yes, is not actual science..)...

I'd chalk up greed as being the leading cause of strife.

The entire point of her fight isn't killing the hero, is keeping her occupied so all her "rebellious companions" are killed by the others, she can be subdued, and the sword that strengthens the levels of the [hero] class takes effect to make her a puppet of it.

In other words, she's just as bad as the other guy everyone hates.

But what do you think about the haughty selfish nobles who let their peasants die out for their own happiness? Those who let the peasants suffer, starve, and get killed by the enemy so the nobles can eat cake.

Ruti is giving off that vibes.

While I agree with some of what you say, this is bullshit. Ruling over a fief is a choice. You can stop doing that, and let someone else do it. I mean, your argument here is closer to arguing that you're a bad person yourself because you let children in Africa die, since you're not helping them, than to arguing it's what Ruti does.

Everything we've seen in this world has pointed to the hero being necessary, it's not just some fake role they push all the work on.

The problem I have with that is, if she's so important, why is she forced to basically do everything on her own, with only a couple of allies? Why aren't there thousands of people trying to help the one person who can save them? Why aren't they doing what they can?

 

[tigerstar186]

The problem I have with that is, if she's so important, why is she forced to basically do everything on her own, with only a couple of allies? Why aren't there thousands of people trying to help the one person who can save them? Why aren't they doing what they can?

I think the reason we don't see thousands of peasants fighting narratively is that they aren't strong enough to actually do anything, the narrative just does a poor job of emphasizing the power discrepancy between the highest tiers of blessing and lower. If the thousand peasants reach the demon lord and he cleaves them all in one magical slice, that's a waste of their lives and not achieving anything. That's actually one of my main complaints with the story -- you'd think with how built up the hero's blessing is, she should be cutting mountains in half, but we don't see anything like that, instead she's just like any other skilled swordfighter, they just tell us, "No believe me, she strong." The blessings are very tell, don't show, and I find that frustrating.

That being said, yeah, I definitely think there should be more background support for them. Outside of a special sword and an airship, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of effort into things like supplying them and keeping them up to date with knowledge. I chalk that up to this being a world mostly based on old RPGs like dragon quest and FF. In most of those games you get some particular item for helping a kingdom and then they don't have further interaction with you. There's not really a good way to emphasize logistics or information gathering in a traditional RPG unless you bake that into the core gameplay loop. Because of that if you build a world that operates like that but don't flesh it out enough it feels... Weird? Like things don't make sense.

 

[Rheeve]

You know... Theodora is painted as the bad guy, but I don't disagree. If you decide your personal actions and freedoms are worth more than the lives of thousands, you're a bad person. Is it fair that Ruti has to be hero? No, it's fucking horrible. But there's not any other choice. Everything we've seen in this world has pointed to the hero being necessary, it's not just some fake role they push all the work on. She's literally the strongest being, and has a responsibility to act as such. "With great power comes great responsibility." I think people are just turned off by her points because she gives reverence to a shitty god and the story doesn't really pay attention to her arguments by making her side with actual evil instead of giving her her own moment.

I think this whole story would be easier to swallow if there were literally any sign Ruti wasn't necessary, like there having been past heros without the hero's blessing, or a sign the hero wasn't actually necessary like the demon king not being actually a threat, or a sign that they had some way to change the system of blessings as a whole... But that hasn't been shown to be the case in this series. Heck, there isn't even a reason she can't just... finish the demon lord and then chill with her brother. Ruti is condemning thousands to death so she can hang out with her brother a little bit sooner.

The phrase "With great power comes great responsibility" stop being valid when said responsibility involves sacrificing everything that makes you human.
Or are you in favor of human sacrifice? Would you literally sacrifice another humans life if it meant that 1000 other would live?
The Hero blessing does just that, stripping Rut of everything that makes her human because it is deemed as a weakness. And it was forced upon her and negates her will so she is essentially a slave to the blessing, which makes you're in favor of slavery as well I guess.

Heroes are deemed heroic BECAUSE their sacrifice is given freely, not because they were forced into it.

 

[tigerstar186]

The phrase "With great power comes great responsibility" stop being valid when said responsibility involves sacrificing everything that makes you human.
Or are you in favor of human sacrifice? Would you literally sacrifice another humans life if it meant that 1000 other would live?
The Hero blessing does just that, stripping Rut of everything that makes her human because it is deemed as a weakness. And it was forced upon her and negates her will so she is essentially a slave to the blessing, which makes you're in favor of slavery as well I guess.

Heroes are deemed heroic BECAUSE their sacrifice is given freely, not because they were forced into it.

You say this like it's a "gotcha", but that is exactly what I meant.

I accept the death or enslavement of one to save a thousand. (I was also being generous by saying thousands, realistically Earth in a similar era had millions of humans) I don't care who it is or if it is unwilling. This is the easiest trolley problem I've ever heard. Is it a tragedy? Yes, but I'd still do it. Would it be more heroic if the sacrifice were voluntary? Obviously, but my goal isn't to have the most heroic action. It's to save lives in a scenario where the ratio is so obviously skewed. This is a war. If every human acted only in their own immediate personal interests, no humans would remain.

To draw a comparison to the real world, I would've nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WW2 if I were in control. It would kill hundreds of thousands near instantly. It also prevented the Pacific Theater from continuing in such a way that even more than those would have died. In war, people die and have their freedoms revoked. The goal is to end the war and save the most lives, not enjoy your personal freedoms.

 

[Rheeve]

You say this like it's a "gotcha", but that is exactly what I meant.

I accept the death or enslavement of one to save a thousand. (I was also being generous by saying thousands, realistically Earth in a similar era had millions of humans) I don't care who it is or if it is unwilling. This is the easiest trolley problem I've ever heard. Is it a tragedy? Yes, but I'd still do it. Would it be more heroic if the sacrifice were voluntary? Obviously, but my goal isn't to have the most heroic action. It's to save lives in a scenario where the ratio is so obviously skewed. This is a war. If every human acted only in their own immediate personal interests, no humans would remain.

To draw a comparison to the real world, I would've nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WW2 if I were in control. It would kill hundreds of thousands near instantly. It also prevented the Pacific Theater from continuing in such a way that even more than those would have died. In war, people die and have their freedoms revoked. The goal is to end the war and save the most lives, not enjoy your personal freedoms.

Good to know that you're exactly the kind of person I perceived you to be, the kind of person who would round up people in the night and throw them into the meat-grinder. I mean, what is a civilian? It's just another unit of human resources.

If we take this path, why aren't putting the same responsibility on all the peasants in the story? They have the ability to take up arms, why aren't you proposing sending them into the war? It would make it end faster, and as a result fewer people would die.

But no, you want all the responsibility to be stacked on one person and you don't even have the decency to afford them a will of their own.

 

[tigerstar186]

Good to know that you're exactly the kind of person I perceived you to be, the kind of person who would round up people in the night and throw them into the meat-grinder. I mean, what is a civilian? It's just another unit of human resources.

If we take this path, why aren't putting the same responsibility on all the peasants in the story? They have the ability to take up arms, why aren't you proposing sending them into the war? It would make it end faster, and as a result fewer people would die.

But no, you want all the responsibility to be stacked on one person and you don't even have the decency to afford them a will of their own.

Once again making assumptions, if you read my other post, you would actually see that I don't see anything wrong with fielding an army of peasants. I just think the power gap, though poorly represented, exists in such a way that even if you threw all the peasants at the demon lord at once, the demon lord would still win. This world is based on an rpg. That's how they work, even if it's silly.

I also explicitly said that the story could do a better job portraying non-militaristic support -- you don't see much support for Ruti's endeavors from governments outside of a few special people and items.

As for whether you think I'm cruel... ok? I'm not especially concerned with the opinion of a random MangaDex user on my personality. Someone has to make the choice. Happiness is a short-term boon and so should have less resources put into it than existential ones. Survival is long term. If no one survives, there will be no more happiness either. This has been the mantra of humanity since it began. If you don't like my thoughts, you are welcome to follow your own personal happiness even to the potential expense of others as much as you like. I'm not going to stop you.

 

[Rheeve]

Once again making assumptions, if you read my other post, you would actually see that I don't see anything wrong with fielding an army of peasants. I just think the power gap, though poorly represented, exists in such a way that even if you threw all the peasants at the demon lord at once, the demon lord would still win. This world is based on an rpg. That's how they work, even if it's silly.

I also explicitly said that the story could do a better job portraying non-militaristic support -- you don't see much support for Ruti's endeavors from governments outside of a few special people and items.

As for whether you think I'm cruel... ok? I'm not especially concerned with the opinion of a random MangaDex user on my personality. Someone has to make the choice. Happiness is a short-term boon and so should have less resources put into it than existential ones. Survival is long term. If no one survives, there will be no more happiness either. This has been the mantra of humanity since it began. If you don't like my thoughts, you are welcome to follow your own personal happiness even to the potential expense of others as much as you like. I'm not going to stop you.

Noted and discarded.

 

[Cidolfas]

"Where'd you go on vacation?"
"We went to Omelas! Great city, the food scene is divine."
"Oh yeah, I love that place. Amazing beaches. And the architecture too."
"..."
"Sucks about that kid though..."
"SUPER sucks about that kid though!"

 

[AbeautifulMind]

Once again making assumptions, if you read my other post, you would actually see that I don't see anything wrong with fielding an army of peasants. I just think the power gap, though poorly represented, exists in such a way that even if you threw all the peasants at the demon lord at once, the demon lord would still win. This world is based on an rpg. That's how they work, even if it's silly.

I also explicitly said that the story could do a better job portraying non-militaristic support -- you don't see much support for Ruti's endeavors from governments outside of a few special people and items.

As for whether you think I'm cruel... ok? I'm not especially concerned with the opinion of a random MangaDex user on my personality. Someone has to make the choice. Happiness is a short-term boon and so should have less resources put into it than existential ones. Survival is long term. If no one survives, there will be no more happiness either. This has been the mantra of humanity since it began. If you don't like my thoughts, you are welcome to follow your own personal happiness even to the potential expense of others as much as you like. I'm not going to stop you.

kindof an ass but yeah

Noted and discarded.

aka assumed wrong and aint got not counterpoints lmao bang

 

[sirflimflam]

I disagree. Ruti is a selfish brat.

Imagine your family and friends are killed by demons, and the reason is because the hero wanted to play house. Every day, demons attack and kill innocent people. To do nothing is to let them die.

So what if she didn't want to be the hero. No one is given a choice of where they were born to or what blessing they get.

You do a good job showing how people in that world would think but it's not comparable at all when you take even one second to think about the ramifications. Someone with a thief type job isn't compelled to rob and murder people. People have some level of autonomy over the life they live -- except the hero, who is deeply compelled by its very existence to sacrifice itself for everyone else, even people it loathes from the very core of it's being, even people it would sooner blow a hole into to get out of their way. That's pretty messed up. The hero is basically born to be a slave. Nobody except family and close friends will care what that means to the hero, so long as results are obtained. But it's completely messed up and literally the same sort of logic used to sacrifice people to the gods. If they ran, they were selfish, why wouldn't they want to help everyone?

 

[AnotherDuck]

I think the reason we don't see thousands of peasants fighting narratively is that they aren't strong enough to actually do anything, the narrative just does a poor job of emphasizing the power discrepancy between the highest tiers of blessing and lower. If the thousand peasants reach the demon lord and he cleaves them all in one magical slice, that's a waste of their lives and not achieving anything.
...
That being said, yeah, I definitely think there should be more background support for them.

That's my point. An army has a lot of non-combatants. If you can't support the hero directly, you can support the people who support the hero directly. And while she's stronger than anyone else, there's quite a few in between her and peasants, so there could be a thousand well-trained warriors. They might not be able to deal with the Big Bad Evil Guy himself (although in this case I'd say that's whatever god put the system in place, but that's another argument), but they can deal with the minions.

Basically, if you have a world-ending threat like it's played up as, you provide the resources of a world. If you're going to die if she fails, you throw in everything you have. And if you don't, you can't expect her to. That's at least my stance on it. You don't demand that someone gives up more than you're willing to yourself.

Because of that if you build a world that operates like that but don't flesh it out enough it feels... Weird? Like things don't make sense.

Yeah, that's what it feels like. A system created for a purpose to exploit the people within, since it doesn't work for them.

 

[stavekoff]

bro she's a child