Shingeki no Kyojin - Vol. 33 Ch. 131 - Rumbling
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Man i got worried that Eren was about to regret his plan for a minute, that nonsense of him apologizing was bullshit, if you are really sorry then how about not doing it at all?
He should just go with it and never look back, and enjoy the flattened world he will create, he made his bed on the floor and now he has to lie on it.
@Kampfarsch it is magic it doesn't has to make sense, but lets say that the titans magically multiply after advancing some amount of distance and that way they manage from leaving any uncovered ground.
He should just go with it and never look back, and enjoy the flattened world he will create, he made his bed on the floor and now he has to lie on it.
@Kampfarsch it is magic it doesn't has to make sense, but lets say that the titans magically multiply after advancing some amount of distance and that way they manage from leaving any uncovered ground.
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@Miv I'm Sorry, i'm sorry, i'm sorry, i'm sorry, but now i will proceed to call you names.
You are a poopoo head who has the big dumb-dumb, and your mum never loved you.
Is ok because i apologized first, see? i could have not done tho, but i apologized before doing it, so both my sides are valid, you said it after all.
The point of my comment, now in all seriousness is that Eren wasn't really sorry about it, just like i am not really sorry about saying that about you, because i did it anyways. Now after the fact i do feel bad about saying that your mom never loved you tho, my bad.
You are a poopoo head who has the big dumb-dumb, and your mum never loved you.
Is ok because i apologized first, see? i could have not done tho, but i apologized before doing it, so both my sides are valid, you said it after all.
The point of my comment, now in all seriousness is that Eren wasn't really sorry about it, just like i am not really sorry about saying that about you, because i did it anyways. Now after the fact i do feel bad about saying that your mom never loved you tho, my bad.
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@Doomroar, the apology was pre-hobo Eren who was still coming to terms with the guilt over his decision, not resolute Eren who's committed to his mission. I actually really like that scene, it shows a more selfish side to Eren's genocide, he admits the outside world was a huge disappointment and didn't live up to his dreams and he wanted to erase it from existence, which is pretty fucked up.
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@T_Starrk His current plan is great, he is effectively killing anyone who may ever try to get payback, he is ending the cycle of revenge by ending the world, but such a extreme decision was entirely his idea.
Pre-hobo Eren is just as selfish and as fucked up as the current resolute one that is flattening the world because he didn't like it, matter of fact, i think he was more fucked up back then.
He reached maximum fucked up at that moment, because that was the moment were despite knowing and admitting that what he was gonna do was wrong, he still decided to go with it, after that? well after that doesn't matters because he has a bunch of excuses to back up his actions, but before it, before it is maximum asshole, because he still plans to do it, has no real argument for it, knows that he shouldn't do it, but is still planning to do it.
My point is that the logic doesn't withstands, If i had called Miv worse insults (lets say i had used racial slurs, and hate speech) i would have gotten my comment moderated, because you can always choose not to do it, apologizing before hand in this scenario s not an expression of regret, guilt, or even a proper apology, all it does is show that while you were planning to fuck up and that you already knew that you should not do it, but that you are a big enough asshole to do it anyways, hell i could get my comment moderated right now, even if i was being facetious and doing it for the sake of making a point, and i didn't really mean it, at the end of the day i still insulted someone.
There are moments where an apology can be valid upfront, they are if you are being forced to do something against your will, and if you know that something accidental may happen that you can't account for and there's nothing realistic to avoid it other than luck keeping things safe. But neither of these 2 scenarios apply.
Hell Eren has sold himself the lie that this was an unavoidable fate is part of the things behind his resolution.
But.. if he really was feeling guilt back then, if he really was feeling bad about it, if he reaaaally was conflicted about all this, then and only then, it would mean that Eren is delusional and has been delusional for quite a while now, and has been lying to himself just to escape from his actions and the world, and that the currents events are just the product someone fleeing from reality in a tantrum, and he doesn't really has any resolution to do any of this and is just doing it out of cowardice and a feeling of inadequacy from facing the future (and such a thing would mean that some good ol Talk no Jutsu could probably stop Eren).
Pre-hobo Eren is just as selfish and as fucked up as the current resolute one that is flattening the world because he didn't like it, matter of fact, i think he was more fucked up back then.
He reached maximum fucked up at that moment, because that was the moment were despite knowing and admitting that what he was gonna do was wrong, he still decided to go with it, after that? well after that doesn't matters because he has a bunch of excuses to back up his actions, but before it, before it is maximum asshole, because he still plans to do it, has no real argument for it, knows that he shouldn't do it, but is still planning to do it.
My point is that the logic doesn't withstands, If i had called Miv worse insults (lets say i had used racial slurs, and hate speech) i would have gotten my comment moderated, because you can always choose not to do it, apologizing before hand in this scenario s not an expression of regret, guilt, or even a proper apology, all it does is show that while you were planning to fuck up and that you already knew that you should not do it, but that you are a big enough asshole to do it anyways, hell i could get my comment moderated right now, even if i was being facetious and doing it for the sake of making a point, and i didn't really mean it, at the end of the day i still insulted someone.
There are moments where an apology can be valid upfront, they are if you are being forced to do something against your will, and if you know that something accidental may happen that you can't account for and there's nothing realistic to avoid it other than luck keeping things safe. But neither of these 2 scenarios apply.
Hell Eren has sold himself the lie that this was an unavoidable fate is part of the things behind his resolution.
But.. if he really was feeling guilt back then, if he really was feeling bad about it, if he reaaaally was conflicted about all this, then and only then, it would mean that Eren is delusional and has been delusional for quite a while now, and has been lying to himself just to escape from his actions and the world, and that the currents events are just the product someone fleeing from reality in a tantrum, and he doesn't really has any resolution to do any of this and is just doing it out of cowardice and a feeling of inadequacy from facing the future (and such a thing would mean that some good ol Talk no Jutsu could probably stop Eren).
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This chapter was goddamn amazing the one line "When I learned humanity existed outside of the walls... I... was so disappointed." has been stuck in my head since I read this chapter. It's so goddamn good.
It changes the entire context of the earlier chapters and flashbacks of Eren going to Marley. It seemed at first like he was dazed or in shock, but to now know it's none of those emotions.
I like the whole concept of pre-destination that's been brought up here. Eren tried desperately to fight back against it but kept seeing the futility again and again. There was no way to break out of it. And you know what I realized with this? Eren sees the futility through Grisha. Grisha himself went against the Future Memory that Eren had, we believed back then that it was because of the memories that Eren shared with him but- no matter what it was inevitable that Grisha WOULD commit that act. Eren, Grisha, Owl, and all of the Attack Titans have been chained to this destiny, it's hard to believe that Eren can even claim to have his own will.
I think we're due up for a final twist. We've been given some clues I feel like.
Eren accused Armin of being manipulated by Berthold by his visits to Annie. (Projecting much?)
What I think is that Eren is the one being influenced more than anyone else. His actions, and breakdown this chapter lean heavily towards the way that Grisha had acted prior.
I believe the ending will heavily revolve around someone breaking free from Eren's vision of the future.
To me, that person should/will be Armin.
What will happen to break his vision of the future is an entire enigma to me.
Relistening to that spoiler audio that Ishiyama released with the exhibit was really interesting. Give yourself a listen, if you'd like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNJ9ft7RCFs
It changes the entire context of the earlier chapters and flashbacks of Eren going to Marley. It seemed at first like he was dazed or in shock, but to now know it's none of those emotions.
I like the whole concept of pre-destination that's been brought up here. Eren tried desperately to fight back against it but kept seeing the futility again and again. There was no way to break out of it. And you know what I realized with this? Eren sees the futility through Grisha. Grisha himself went against the Future Memory that Eren had, we believed back then that it was because of the memories that Eren shared with him but- no matter what it was inevitable that Grisha WOULD commit that act. Eren, Grisha, Owl, and all of the Attack Titans have been chained to this destiny, it's hard to believe that Eren can even claim to have his own will.
I think we're due up for a final twist. We've been given some clues I feel like.
Eren accused Armin of being manipulated by Berthold by his visits to Annie. (Projecting much?)
What I think is that Eren is the one being influenced more than anyone else. His actions, and breakdown this chapter lean heavily towards the way that Grisha had acted prior.
I believe the ending will heavily revolve around someone breaking free from Eren's vision of the future.
To me, that person should/will be Armin.
What will happen to break his vision of the future is an entire enigma to me.
Relistening to that spoiler audio that Ishiyama released with the exhibit was really interesting. Give yourself a listen, if you'd like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNJ9ft7RCFs
The screams/rumbling occurring as the world is destroyed.
Someone walking somewhere or stepping outside.
Then we hear the wind, which we can assume now is way up high in the sky above the clouds.
And then Armin screaming for Eren, likely to try and talk to him like he'd told Annie this chapter.
Someone walking somewhere or stepping outside.
Then we hear the wind, which we can assume now is way up high in the sky above the clouds.
And then Armin screaming for Eren, likely to try and talk to him like he'd told Annie this chapter.
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@Doomroar
Have you tried making a decision to save yourself or loved ones while also pulling someone down to hell? That's Eren. The apologizing part is just him feeling conscience and easing the guilt. You just gotta do everything to make yourself a little bit better to keep your sanity you know.
Have you tried making a decision to save yourself or loved ones while also pulling someone down to hell? That's Eren. The apologizing part is just him feeling conscience and easing the guilt. You just gotta do everything to make yourself a little bit better to keep your sanity you know.
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I meant valid as in fully plausible, not as a moral judgment. I was only trying to have you entertain that possibility of him feeling sorry and genocidal at the same time. I read what you said as if one necesseraily falsifies the other, and that hence Eren was being dishonest. But on a second read-through I take this interpretation in question since I am no longer sure if you were reprimanding him for feeling sorry & in the future remorseful or contesting that he felt apologetic in the first place. @Doomroar
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@AProunds
Is this fucked? Yes this is totally fucked. But there have been only 2 choices from the moment Marley attacked... when they sent those brainwashed kids to commit genocide upon their own people. Was that not fucked? They could have left the people of the island the hell alone, but they couldn't let go of their past grudges prejudice/fear, and their greed... even generations later. There became only 2 options.
1. The mass suicide/self-genocide of their entire people (aka the Zeke plan) or just wait to be slaughtered instead but the ultimate result is the same either way.
2. The Erin plan. To eliminate a threat that won't go away and will only get stronger as their technology advances.
Already the outer world is nearly to the point only Erin can truly fight them once they go "all in". An outer world that will never let go of their grudges, prejudice/fear, and their greed. An outer world that will never let the people of the island live. Erin himself has merely years to live. Will the next founding titan have the resolve? At a point soon-ish even all those colossal titans will be able to be neutralized militarily. This is a card that must be played, and played now if it is to be played at all.
So what would you do? There is no sane option. No reasonable option. No justifiable option. No humane option. Every choice is genocide. Every choice is horrific. To do nothing is equal to choosing option 1. If Erin meets that general among the "stop Erin" coalition, I want Erin to point to the slurry of flesh, rubble, and ash...
@Kampfarsch
Even if Erin missed a few (realistically he would) that's irrelevant. A few thousand survivors pushed back into the stone age aren't a threat.
Yep he is choosing survival for the people of the island. He sees that the people of the outer world are "too dangerous to exist" as well. But as this chapter illustrates, that's still very heavy for him. As it should be.
Is this fucked? Yes this is totally fucked. But there have been only 2 choices from the moment Marley attacked... when they sent those brainwashed kids to commit genocide upon their own people. Was that not fucked? They could have left the people of the island the hell alone, but they couldn't let go of their past grudges prejudice/fear, and their greed... even generations later. There became only 2 options.
1. The mass suicide/self-genocide of their entire people (aka the Zeke plan) or just wait to be slaughtered instead but the ultimate result is the same either way.
2. The Erin plan. To eliminate a threat that won't go away and will only get stronger as their technology advances.
Already the outer world is nearly to the point only Erin can truly fight them once they go "all in". An outer world that will never let go of their grudges, prejudice/fear, and their greed. An outer world that will never let the people of the island live. Erin himself has merely years to live. Will the next founding titan have the resolve? At a point soon-ish even all those colossal titans will be able to be neutralized militarily. This is a card that must be played, and played now if it is to be played at all.
So what would you do? There is no sane option. No reasonable option. No justifiable option. No humane option. Every choice is genocide. Every choice is horrific. To do nothing is equal to choosing option 1. If Erin meets that general among the "stop Erin" coalition, I want Erin to point to the slurry of flesh, rubble, and ash...
@Kampfarsch
LOL no. Just no. Humans don't walk that fast, let alone in a group. Insufficient top running speed aside - consider limited endurance, logistics, etc. How long will people last on the move? Not long. Can people "simply walk" over mountains, lakes, and oceans? Not so much. It should be very obvious (with the smallest amount of critical thought) that they can't outrun this - so quit being silly/contrarian for no reason. And furthermore spreading out is more viable once the bulk of the job is done. So your talk of circumference is pointless as well.
Even if Erin missed a few (realistically he would) that's irrelevant. A few thousand survivors pushed back into the stone age aren't a threat.
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@bk3k Getting out of the way to the side shouldnt really be a problem for most people that are sufficiently far away and the people that were behind them to beginn with wont have a problem at all
Funny that you say that a few thousands wont be a threat cause eren mentioned that letting any survive at all would be a mistake
Funny that you say that a few thousands wont be a threat cause eren mentioned that letting any survive at all would be a mistake
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@Harjeli But that's not the case here, because he does not have to do it this way, this is not the trolley problem. If he really absolutely had no other option but to flatten the world, i would understand, but that's not what he has to do at all, he just went on the extreme and decided that if he kills everyone then no one would come for him since everyone is dead, which is true (the plan is great the rumbling does solve everything by killing everyone), but also ignores every other possibility on the table, and if he really felt bad about it he would not have done it in the first place, if he really felt bad about it he would have tried to explore other options, if he really felt bad about it he would have been more open to what other characters had to say, that's my problem with it.
So either he is being hypocritical about it (he doesn't really meant it), or he is being delusional about it (he lied to himself that this was the only way so that he could go with the plan).
@Miv Oh i get you, the thing is that i don't think at all that Eren's case is a "sorry i had to do it" case, because he didn't had to do it. That's why i used that example, because i had the option of not doing it but did it anyways.
I don't think by one single moment, that Eren can pull the martyr card and play this as him being in a forced situation in which he either has to do things this way or have everything end horribly for his people, for starters he has too much power on his hands, he is practically a god that can survive even being decapitated, then he has already various allies that were supporting him, and he had various people willing to help him think of alternatives, but decided to go for the easy yet extremely effective solution of global genocide, and that's entirely on him because he didn't had to do it this way.
That's why i said that instead of apologizing he should have done it in the first place, he was still on the past and convinced himself that the future was set in stone.
So either he is being hypocritical about it (he doesn't really meant it), or he is being delusional about it (he lied to himself that this was the only way so that he could go with the plan).
@Miv Oh i get you, the thing is that i don't think at all that Eren's case is a "sorry i had to do it" case, because he didn't had to do it. That's why i used that example, because i had the option of not doing it but did it anyways.
I don't think by one single moment, that Eren can pull the martyr card and play this as him being in a forced situation in which he either has to do things this way or have everything end horribly for his people, for starters he has too much power on his hands, he is practically a god that can survive even being decapitated, then he has already various allies that were supporting him, and he had various people willing to help him think of alternatives, but decided to go for the easy yet extremely effective solution of global genocide, and that's entirely on him because he didn't had to do it this way.
That's why i said that instead of apologizing he should have done it in the first place, he was still on the past and convinced himself that the future was set in stone.
@bk3k
Finally, someone else who gets it. All these dumbasses in the comments mad at Eren, who can't understand that the world, and even Eren's world, don't work the way in their happy little dreams. "There must be another-" No, there isn't.
The enemy made it "US OR THEM". So your choices are narrowed down to two by people you've never met, who you don't hate, but hate you, who you want nothing from but they want everything from you. "Us or them."
If you choose 'us', you have betrayed everyone, yourself, all the people beside and behind you. "We die." Like some pathetic doormat, you sacrifice the lives of all the innocent victims on your side who just want to live and be free. The enemy gets what they want, and you get massacred while they hoot and holler about victory like they were righteous fucking saints putting down a demon as they stand on the broken bodies of babies. Patting themselves on the back leaving handprints in innocent blood.
if you choose 'them', then you have saved your people, but doomed all the others to the same treatment. "They die.", you've become a reaper. Your people will be safe forevermore, because there won't be anyone left who wants to kill you. Bathe the world in the blood of those who support those who want you to die. Because if you kill the ones who want you dead, those others will also become ones who want you dead, and will create more and more forces and tools to destroy you out of fear and greed. So they ALL have to go. Or at least so many that they can never muster a rebellion, never recover, never rise again.
That's it. There are no other options. Once words have become pointless, there is only violence. And if you don't want your family to die, your violence must be more all-encompassing, more shocking, more bloody, more gory, more mind-bendingly destructive and unnecessarily encompassing that they could never come after you again. If you even so much as raise a fist in the air towards them they will not let you live, no amount of discussion or pleading will work - any amount of self-defense means that you must be wiped out. So all you can do is kill them all until only you and yours are left.
It's brutal, it's nonsensical. It's the way human beings work. It's the way they've always worked.
Finally, someone else who gets it. All these dumbasses in the comments mad at Eren, who can't understand that the world, and even Eren's world, don't work the way in their happy little dreams. "There must be another-" No, there isn't.
The enemy made it "US OR THEM". So your choices are narrowed down to two by people you've never met, who you don't hate, but hate you, who you want nothing from but they want everything from you. "Us or them."
If you choose 'us', you have betrayed everyone, yourself, all the people beside and behind you. "We die." Like some pathetic doormat, you sacrifice the lives of all the innocent victims on your side who just want to live and be free. The enemy gets what they want, and you get massacred while they hoot and holler about victory like they were righteous fucking saints putting down a demon as they stand on the broken bodies of babies. Patting themselves on the back leaving handprints in innocent blood.
if you choose 'them', then you have saved your people, but doomed all the others to the same treatment. "They die.", you've become a reaper. Your people will be safe forevermore, because there won't be anyone left who wants to kill you. Bathe the world in the blood of those who support those who want you to die. Because if you kill the ones who want you dead, those others will also become ones who want you dead, and will create more and more forces and tools to destroy you out of fear and greed. So they ALL have to go. Or at least so many that they can never muster a rebellion, never recover, never rise again.
That's it. There are no other options. Once words have become pointless, there is only violence. And if you don't want your family to die, your violence must be more all-encompassing, more shocking, more bloody, more gory, more mind-bendingly destructive and unnecessarily encompassing that they could never come after you again. If you even so much as raise a fist in the air towards them they will not let you live, no amount of discussion or pleading will work - any amount of self-defense means that you must be wiped out. So all you can do is kill them all until only you and yours are left.
It's brutal, it's nonsensical. It's the way human beings work. It's the way they've always worked.
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@Kayriel
The atomic bombs worked, not because they were the most brutal weapon in existence, fire bombing Tokyo and other cities regularly yielded more casualties (almost double in fact), civilian and military alike, they worked because they were efficient.
Wars are not won through brutality, they are won through efficiency. A dagger in the night is more valuable than thousands swords in the day.
1945 would like to have a word with you. The Germans tried to make it "us or them" (again I might add), but the western world, especially the US, just didn't buy into it. They did in 1918 and it failed, resulting directly in WWII. For the US the war was necessary, but it wasn't ideological.
The Germans tried on the eastern front, they starved Leningrad for years and bombed Stalingrad to a husk and during retreat they scorched the earth. It didn't work. The Soviets still fought on and responded just in kind. Or the Polish: Yes the Germans razed Warsaw, destroyed it by 85% in 1939, did it deter the Poles from resisting? No, not the slightest bit. Did the firestorms in Dresden deter the Germans from fighting? No, it just spurred it further.
The atomic bombs worked, not because they were the most brutal weapon in existence, fire bombing Tokyo and other cities regularly yielded more casualties (almost double in fact), civilian and military alike, they worked because they were efficient.
Wars are not won through brutality, they are won through efficiency. A dagger in the night is more valuable than thousands swords in the day.
