Shuumatsu no Valkyrie - Ch. 87 - Ame-no-murakumo no Tsurugi

[Nolonar]

A Japanese fighter is the only one in the series to get no-diffed (Zerofuku/7 lucky gods). Another Japanese fighter got an extreme diff loss.

If you mean Lü Bu, he's Chinese, not Japanese. If you mean Raiden Tameemon, the fight was pretty close, with Shiva losing 3/4 arms and ending up being the most severely wounded winner until Qin Shi Huang (who nearly died against Hades, no less).

You are correct about Zerofuku/7 lucky Gods. There is not a single fighter that got done dirtier than them. Even Adam and Hades pale in comparison.

See how we can't really argue that because it's subjective but having two of the same type from a narrative perspective is boring

True, from a narrative perspective, having multiple characters of the same type is boring, but your initial argument was:

When you have the battle being "Humanities strongest" having two guys of the same weapon type just doesn't make sense.

which is not true, because if even the second-strongest swordman is stronger than the strongest boxer, it does make sense to have two swordsmen rather than one swordman and one boxer.

It's kinda like Super Smash Bros. Plenty of people argue that the game has too many sword users, and that it's kind of boring when half the cast are so similar to one another. But nobody's arguing that it doesn't make sense for Smash to have that many sword users. There's a huge difference between "being interesting" and "making sense", after all.

 

[tigerstar186]

A Japanese fighter is the only one in the series to get no-diffed (Zerofuku/7 lucky gods). Another Japanese fighter got an extreme diff loss. Now the fight is Japan vs Japan so no matter what, one wins and one loses. I don't feel like that's very wanky. At the very least, it doesn't ruin the story.

I still can't get over how dirty Hades got done. He was made so pathetic he had to team up with 6 other Gods, before fusing into a single God that doesn't even exist in any culture. Despite that, he was still so pathetically weak he had to be replaced by Hajun (aka Mara, an Indian God) and still lost. And before anyone argues that Buddha is a God and not a human, this series has done plenty to establish the fact that humans and Gods are evenly matched.

Author should be crucified for doing Hades so dirty! Wait... wrong God.

Anyhow, you were saying...?

Bishamonten and the 7 lucky gods are multinational. Bishamonten, for instance, is first and foremost a Buddhist god, not Japanese, to the point the manga development notes and anime both literally just call him Vaiśravaṇa. Shichifukujin even points this out in series: That's just how they're called in Japan. The 7 lucky gods are a collection of characters from various mythologies and to claim they're just Japanese is folly.

 

[Nolonar]

Bishamonten is first and foremost a Buddhist god, not Japanese, to the point the manga development notes and anime both literally just call him Vaiśravaṇa. Shichifukujin even points this out in series: That's just how they're called in Japan. The 7 lucky gods are a collection of characters from various mythologies and to claim they're just Japanese is folly.

Who said anything about Bishamonten? I was referring to Ebisu, one of the 7 lucky Gods, who is Japanese.

Again, you were saying?

 

[tigerstar186]

Who said anything about Bishamonten? I was referring to Ebisu, one of the 7 lucky Gods, who is Japanese.

Again, you were saying?

I literally pointed out they were multinational. I didn't say none of them were Japanese. To claim that they are, on the whole, meant to be a Japanese fighter when the main fighter was never billed as Ebisu is intellectually dishonest. This isn't a "gotcha" of you not explicitly mentioning Bishamonten, you're just arguing in bad faith.

 

[Nolonar]

I literally pointed out they were multinational. I didn't say none of them were Japanese. To claim that they are, on the whole, meant to be a Japanese fighter when the main fighter was never billed as Ebisu is intellectually dishonest. This isn't a "gotcha" of you not explicitly mentioning Bishamonten, you're just arguing in bad faith.

And I literally talked about that one Japanese God that had to team up with six other Gods and was still done dirty.

Not my fault you narrow-mindedly assumed I meant Bishamonten, nor is it my fault you thought I was talking about all 7 of them, when I explicitly named only one.

You are correct that the fight was billed as Bishamonten, not Ebisu. Ebisu did, however, appear and was acknowledged as a legitimate fighter for that one fight... which then never happened because author pulled out Zerofuku, a completely original character that had no business appearing in this manga in the first place. Which didn't even matter anyway, since the fight was technically about Hajun instead.

You asked for a Japanese character being done dirty, and Ebisu is him. I don't blame you for forgetting about him, but Ebisu did in fact exist, was in fact introduced as a legitimate fighter alongside Bishamonten, and did in fact get done dirty along with the rest of the 7 lucky Gods. If anyone's arguing in bad faith, it's you, for insisting he doesn't matter after being pointed out he is that one character you were asking for.

 

[Ouroboros6134]

And I literally talked about that one Japanese God that had to team up with six other Gods and was still done dirty.

Not my fault you narrow-mindedly assumed I meant Bishamonten, nor is it my fault you thought I was talking about all 7 of them, when I explicitly named only one.

You are correct that the fight was billed as Bishamonten, not Ebisu. Ebisu did, however, appear and was acknowledged as a legitimate fighter for that one fight... which then never happened because author pulled out Zerofuku, a completely original character that had no business appearing in this manga in the first place. Which didn't even matter anyway, since the fight was technically about Hajun instead.

You asked for a Japanese character being done dirty, and Ebisu is him. I don't blame you for forgetting about him, but Ebisu did in fact exist, was in fact introduced as a legitimate fighter alongside Bishamonten, and did in fact get done dirty along with the rest of the 7 lucky Gods. If anyone's arguing in bad faith, it's you, for insisting he doesn't matter after being pointed out he is that one character you were asking for.

Literally no one was talking about or cares about Ebisu. he shows up in a whopping 3 panels. Just because you say "Um, ackshually my argument is technically correct 🤓 " doesn't make the fact you're arguing something no one else is talking about while actively responding to other people any less stupid

 

[Ouroboros6134]

I literally pointed out they were multinational. I didn't say none of them were Japanese. To claim that they are, on the whole, meant to be a Japanese fighter when the main fighter was never billed as Ebisu is intellectually dishonest. This isn't a "gotcha" of you not explicitly mentioning Bishamonten, you're just arguing in bad faith.

Don't get baited idiot if he's arguing in bad faith just don't respond

 

[Pengy_Z]

Bishamonten and the 7 lucky gods are multinational. Bishamonten, for instance, is first and foremost a Buddhist god, not Japanese, to the point the manga development notes and anime both literally just call him Vaiśravaṇa. Shichifukujin even points this out in series: That's just how they're called in Japan. The 7 lucky gods are a collection of characters from various mythologies and to claim they're just Japanese is folly.

The 7 lucky gods may be multinational but Zerofuku is a Japanese as fuck name dude

It's like saying Beelzebub is a Caanaite god despite him being the devil from the bible, having Satan inside of him, and his backstory relating to Lucifer and Lilith. But that's something else entirely

 

[Pengy_Z]

If you mean Lü Bu, he's Chinese, not Japanese. If you mean Raiden Tameemon, the fight was pretty close, with Shiva losing 3/4 arms and ending up being the most severely wounded winner until Qin Shi Huang (who nearly died against Hades, no less).

You are correct about Zerofuku/7 lucky Gods. There is not a single fighter that got done dirtier than them. Even Adam and Hades pale in comparison.

Yes, Raiden was the extreme diff loss. It means he pushed Shiva to extreme difficulty, then lost. It's powerscaling brainrot, so I shouldn't have used that term.

 

[Nolonar]

Literally no one was talking about or cares about Ebisu. he shows up in a whopping 3 panels. Just because you say "Um, ackshually my argument is technically correct 🤓 " doesn't make the fact you're arguing something no one else is talking about while actively responding to other people any less stupid

Good thing, then, that we're talking about Japanese characters that may or may not have been treated like crap, huh?

Ebisu, despite not being listed as an official fighter, actually appeared in more panels and had more lines than Bishamonten. In chapter 43 alone, Ebisu appears in 18 panels (in most of which he has a line) vs 8 panels for Bishamonten (who only has lines for 3 of them). Ebisu actually has a larger presence than Bishamonten and every other Lucky God in this series.

But, sure, let's not talk about these inconvenient things that don't fit neatly into our narrative. "If you're not with us, you're stupid" does not make you look nearly half as smart as you think it does.

 

[Ouroboros6134]

Good thing, then, that we're talking about Japanese characters that may or may not have been treated like crap, huh?

Ebisu, despite not being listed as an official fighter, actually appeared in more panels and had more lines than Bishamonten. In chapter 43 alone, Ebisu appears in 18 panels (in most of which he has a line) vs 8 panels for Bishamonten (who only has lines for 3 of them). Ebisu actually has a larger presence than Bishamonten and every other Lucky God in this series.

But, sure, let's not talk about these inconvenient things that don't fit neatly into our narrative. "If you're not with us, you're stupid" does not make you look nearly half as smart as you think it does.

The discussion was clearly about fighters you're just claiming it was about "every japanese character" rather than billed fighters because one guy said it and it fits your narrative better.

You also present statistics in a manipulative manner to make your case. You only quote chapter 43 because you know that Bishamonten is more present than Ebisu in every other chapter. For instance, in chapter 44, Bishamonten appears in 11 panels independently. You know how many Ebisu is in? 2. That's not even counting the various fusions for which Bishamonten is the base.

On top of that you point to lines to demonstrate importance. Hello? One is a loudmouth and the other a stoic. no shit Ebisu will have more lines. It's like saying Majima is the main character of Yakuza Kiwami because he has more lines than Kiryu.

Heck, you didn't even count 43 right. Ebisu is in 19 panels, while Bishamonten is in 12.

So yes, you're fucking stupid.

 

[Bubbon]

WHY MUST THE AUTHOR MAKE SUSANOO SO DAMN LIKEABLE I DONT WANT HIM TO DIE.

 

[tigerstar186]

The 7 lucky gods may be multinational but Zerofuku is a Japanese as fuck name dude

It's like saying Beelzebub is a Caanaite god despite him being the devil from the bible, having Satan inside of him, and his backstory relating to Lucifer and Lilith. But that's something else entirely

You say that like we should take a character's backstory as their definer... So surely your point would be Zerofuku isn't Japanese? His backstory is set in unspecified Ancient Asia. Why would they not specify Japan if that is intended to be the case? On top of that, the first civilization he visits... sure looks a lot like India. Since when did the ancient Japanese wear sari, have bindis, or stretch their ears? Why does he meet Gautama Siddharta in person, who was born in Nepal and never visited Japan in real life nor was he shown to in series?

 

[tigerstar186]

Literally no one was talking about or cares about Ebisu. he shows up in a whopping 3 panels. Just because you say "Um, ackshually my argument is technically correct 🤓 " doesn't make the fact you're arguing something no one else is talking about while actively responding to other people any less stupid

Don't get baited idiot if he's arguing in bad faith just don't respond

No need to be rude about it.

 

[sixfish11]

So is Souji just using Luffy's second gear as his power?

 

[birbdechi]

Same principle, different application. Shiva used it to increase his overall stats especially his strength (and the fire), while Okita is for speed & agility.

 

[Shinobu]

So we follow up a boring fight with another boring fight but with swords

 

[Crosonical]

So we follow up a boring fight with another boring fight but with swords

Yes, but this time we can jerk off over how cool Japan is! /s

Author even turned Ame-no-Murakumo into a fucking katana ffs...

 

[Liar]

What got you thinking that I actually care about historical accuracy? I want interesting culturally different match ups. Shit like Warrior of 3 Kingdoms vs Norse god, the first Abrahamic man vs Greek god ruler, Prominent Sumo Wrestler vs Indian Deity of Destruction. Y'know, match ups that are actually interesting.

Samurai vs Samurai (divine) is mid even in concept

Now, to me, this is the better argument. Not bitching about perceived Japanese wank, but just straight up pointing out that a fight concept between two Samurai is not the most interesting compared to previous fights.

 

[K_Takuya]

Now, to me, this is the better argument. Not bitching about perceived Japanese wank, but just straight up pointing out that a fight concept between two Samurai is not the most interesting compared to previous fights.

I mean, both are true tho This arc is mid and a japanese wank