So I'm a Spider, So What? - Vol. 10 Ch. 48.2

[RanmaChaos]

Thanks for the chapter

 

[unime]

... I feel bad for the thinker
Need body in charge to lvl the common sense
Many thanks

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Thank you so much for the chapter! A new student!!

 

[anggitoz]

At last, finding city server after barely 50 chaps

 

[Oeconomist]

@DLRevan—

I doubt your claim that the difference between “all” and “most” is insignificant here. More specifically, I think that the Anglophonic market is worth the attention of the rights-holders, and that the overwhelming majority of buyers in the Anglophonic market look at the bootlegged scanlations before purchase. If I am correct then, even if they are a very small share of those who read the bootlegged scanlations, those people between “most” and “all” are important.

Your analysis of how content is monetized is far too crude. When a commercial enterprise as such provides content that is free to some audience, that does not mean that it is unmonetized.

Ways in which the story could be delivered without a loss of essential detail have been obvious. (I noted some for this particular chapter.)

 

[DLRevan]

@Oeconomist Please, I work in entertainment media. I know just because something is shipped free, doesn't mean it has no market considerations or ties to other forms of monetization. But you would have realized that if you weren't determined to cherry pick what I say. I already mentioned that very fact in context of other media tied to this franchise, meaning I already implied it.

Likewise, you're now hanging on to that group of people that do buy the licensed volumes, cherry-picking that point to pick a fight with me because...what? What's your point? That this manga must hold itself accountable even to bootleggers? In a forum where the author or publisher will never tread and never read? To a small tiny fraction of the market who do buy the volumes in Japan? This is a massive stretch to hyper-focus all the way down to this one tiny potential subset of the audience based upon piles of assumptions.

It is insignificant. This manga can sell 0 copies in the "anglophonic" market, and nothing would change, and nothing will have to. The publisher and author would feel nothing. It is the barest drop in the ocean compared to the Japanese, Cantonese, Mandarin and Korean markets. You think my analysis is crude? Yours is a cherry-picking mess with no real substance, considering you say things like it's monetized or the story could have been delivered this way and that without elaborating or substantiating.

 

[Oeconomist]

@DLRevan—

I'm not cherry-picking what you say; and, in the face of your misrepresenting what I've actually said, I've been working not to be insulting about what you've actually said.

The reason that I didn't explain the point on monetization was that I expected you to understand it; but the reason that I made that point is that your analysis overlooked that point.

Get a grip. I've made my point clearly: Between most and all are people who are indeed unhappy about the pacing of this manga, and would buy if either it were paced differently or its poor pacing were seen to be sufficiently mitigated.

If the Anglophonic were insignificant, then the rights-holders would never bother license to it in the first place. That the Asian market is more significant doesn't make the Anglophonic market insignificant. (And, in the case of some manga, albeit not this one, the Anglophonic market can make the difference between profit and loss.)

 

[DLRevan]

@Oeconomist You haven't explained ANYTHING! You simply wave your hand and assume everything you say is automatically substantiated.

And as for the monetization issue, that is contradictory. You say I understand that monetization is still present then say I insinuate its not.

Right holders license their series because its just additional revenue. They get license fees and some royalties, but if the series fails in the licensed market they don't make any losses, the local market's publisher does. They don't even suffer any intangible loss like hits to marketing reputation. You can argue that licensing is a significant act as long as it generates revenue...but that does not mean it's significant to how the series should be written or structured, in case you forgot what this was about.

This is point of contention is even misleading in itself. You argue that this group is significant, but since we're talking about how the manga is written and distributed, you would also have to argue that other demographics are less significant. So, are you ready to argue that this tiny, oh-so-special group of "anglophonic" readers should have even half or 10% of the influence of readers in Japan? You are the one who needs to get a grip and get real. You can argue one market being more significant doesn't make another insignificant...well neither is the opposite true. You need to draw the line somewhere. Even if I assume all the unique views on the top 3 aggregator sites are unique between each other, then also assume EVERY one of them will buy the volume sales, instead of just 1% or even 10%. It won't even make up 10% of what the volume sales are so far. It's insignificant. And I've just shown you while you substantiate your view with nothing but your "analysis". Which thanks to your lack of any substantiating facts, is really more your unsupported "opinion".

 

[Brutu]

@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN
As what other people said, Kumo just finished the Elro Great Labyrinth arc, and we're in the new arc as of now. It is completely normal if they introduced new character (a main character at that) at this time, and the introduction doesn't effect the pacing at all. The slow pacing problem lies because of other things. Again, adding a main character even after past 50 chapter is normal, and cannot be used to prove slow pacing.
And as many of people here probably already said, there will be a tone shift from early kumo story (dungeoneering and leveling) to a more uh...

Spoiler

behind the scene planning and world building putside of the great labyrinth

. To be honest this tone shift is a hit or miss. People who are drawn to the early story of kumo exactly because they enjoy dungeoneering and leveling up story might not like the sudden tone shift. So if some people want to drop this manga, this might be the best time. Just think of Kumo beginning a new adventure outside of the great labyrinth as the ending or something.

 

[Oeconomist]

@DLRevan—

You haven't explained ANYTHING! You simply wave your hand and assume everything you say is automatically substantiated.

As I said, you need to get a grip. I explained a variety of differences: [ul]between your claim that everyone here complaining about the pace were leechers and the truth;
between your point that the episodes were being released more rapidly and a proper argument that the telling was appropriately paced;
between the assumptions that you imputed to me and what was actually entailed in my belief that pacing was chosen to extract more revenue rather than as an artistic choice.[/ul] I explained rather specifically how the telling in this chapter was slowed by redundant elements. I explained one simple way to tell that a potential market had significance.

And as for the monetization issue, that is contradictory. You say I understand that monetization is still present

No, I didn't. I said that you understood that monetization didn't necessarily require that the audience buy the content.

then say I insinuate its not.

No, I didn't. I said that you lost sight of that point, in taking me necessarily to have assumed that the audience were paying for the content.

Right holders license their series because its just additional revenue. They get license fees and some royalties, but if the series fails in the licensed market they don't make any losses,

Wrong. Now I will explain why that is wrong. First, costs are best forgone alternatives, so royalties that could have been realized but are not are in fact a loss. Further, while the license fees for the present work will not be lost, if that work does not sell well, then potential licensees will be less willing and simply less able to license future work.

You can argue that licensing is a significant act as long as it generates revenue...but that does not mean it's significant to how the series should be written or structured,

If a purpose of the work is to generate pecuniary profit, then that makes the effects of structure on successful licensing — not only of the present work but of future work — significant to how the work should be structured.

You argue that this group is significant,

Your use of “the group” here is vague. What I have explicitly argued is that consumers of bootlegged scanlations are significant. What I have implicitly held is that the opinions expressed here about the pacing of this story are going to be a meaningful sample of the opinions of those consumers more generally.

but since we're talking about how the manga is written and distributed, you would also have to argue that other demographics are less significant.

No, you're delivering a utter non sequitur. When it suits your attempts at refutation, you treat the term “significant” as if it means most significant, yet you trip over yourself by using the expression “less significant” with its ordinary sense.

So, are you ready to argue that this tiny, oh-so-special group of "anglophonic" readers should have even half or 10% of the influence of readers in Japan?

Nope. Instead, I'm going to suggest that the story could be told in a way that would cost far fewer Japanese readers than would be gained in readers of other languages. (On the other hand, I'm also going to reiterate my earlier suggestion that the slow pacing was chosen for commercial reasons; making the readers happier might cut into the profits.)

By the way, why do you keep using scare-quotes around “anglophonic”?

You can argue one market being more significant doesn't make another insignificant...

Yeah, I'm glad that you're finally acknowledging that.

well neither is the opposite true.

Again, get a grip. The opposite of a truth is a falsehood, so obviously if I'm not going to claim that the opposite of what I've argued is true. (And the reverse oif what I've argued would be that one potential market being insignificant doesn't make another more significant actually would be true, because two potential markets could both be insgnificant.)

You need to draw the line somewhere.

Who the Hell are you calling “you” here?

Even if I assume all the unique views on the top 3 aggregator sites are unique between each other, then also assume EVERY one of them will buy the volume sales, instead of just 1% or even 10%. It won't even make up 10% of what the volume sales are so far.

You seem not to know what the word “unique” means; in any case, you are writing incoherently.

It's insignificant.

Nope. The Anglophonic market is sufficient to sustain multiple publishers.

And I've just shown you

What I've got from you has been a mixture of mostly false and easily exploded claims, and literal incoherence.

while you substantiate your view with nothing but your "analysis". Which thanks to your lack of any substantiating facts, is really more your unsupported "opinion".

What I've done is pointed to the illogic of your argument; issues of logic aren't a matter of presenting something like sales figures. Moreover, you've presented hypothetical percentages, but what actual substantiating facts you've presented haven't been of a different sort than those that I've presented.

And why did you use scare quotes around “opinion”? It isn't even a word that you or I previously used in this exchange.

 

[Mapd]

Do yall have anything better to do other than argue about manga? One click to the comments and I'm greeted with 8th grade argumentative essay assignments.

 

[daywithoutgames]

i just found these 5 trailers of the anime :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91T63s4rEvY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FklRkwzmszU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwLJ-V_6o28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAU94l3UAdg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdyN3FwiEHM

 

[DLRevan]

@Oeconomist You know why I use the quotes? You know why, you even call it scare-quotes. You do know...what scare-quotes means right? Course you do. And you think that makes you sound clever, as does the rest of your post content. You use terms like "non sequitur" and bank on the idea that it explains itself. Which by the way, is a logical fault or gap, but you imply it's due to the misuse or vagueness of a term. The term you are looking for is equivocation, not that I actually committed it. Try not to trip over yourself trying to sound well-read.

But lets not leave it to chance. I use them because it's called sarcasm. Because I don't think much of your opinion, and your opinion is all this is, not a real analysis. As is the careful nitpicking of my post you last posted, which ranges from even more cherry picking, to more sweeping assumptions or dismissals with no substantiation, to the very use of the same fallacies you accuse me of in order to argue against said fallacies, to inept use of legal terminology.

And if it wasn't enough evidence, you've basically moved on to turning this into a criticism of my argument's form rather than any issue with the topic itself. I'm not continuing an empty debate where anything I say is simply struck down by any convenient false logic conceived by a dilettante more interested in his own appearance of cleverness. Is that why you use such a pretentious user name?

Rail against that all you like, and you will, of course, deny it. Doesn't matter, it's enough to know that someone somewhere, called you out and knows what you're trying to do.

@Mapd Well you're right. I wanted to spend my time reading manga, then share with others on the revelations in this chapter. And all I got was bitching and moaning from freeloaders, many whom are practically parasites who won't drop something they claim to no longer enjoy. One of them, apparently, even wants to sound like a polymath scholar...in the weedy comment section of a fantasy manga. Maybe I was wrong to rant about that? Sure, I'll grant that. I really should have left well enough alone from the start, and enjoyed the series on my own.

 

[EzWeeb]

@Mapd

Do yall have anything better to do other than argue about manga?

Where do you think you are?

 

[Oeconomist]

@DLRevan—

You know why I use the quotes? You know why,

No. I had a guess, but then you used them around “opinion”.

I use them because it's called sarcasm.

Well, no it isn't. Sarcasm is a rhetorical form in which one says what does not actually mean, in a manner meant to convey that one does not actually mean it. But you did and do mean to dismiss my remarks as mere opinion. It isn't a function of quotation marks to simply indicate sneering, which is what you apparently were trying.

(Mind you that I would of course have asked the question even had I been sure of the answer.)

And you think that makes you sound clever,

No, I don't. One of your problems here is that you compensate for your lack of language skill by telling yourself that others are pretentious.

You use terms like "non sequitur" and bank on the idea that it explains itself. Which by the way, is a logical fault or gap, but you imply it's due to the misuse or vagueness of a term. The term you are looking for is equivocation,

No, I wasn't looking for “equivocation”. You arrived at a conclusion (that I “would also have to argue that other demographics are less significant”) that didn't follow from the premises; that is the usually sense of “non sequitur”. Now, it's true that, in this case, a misuse use of a term plays some rôle, but I wasn't and am not sure that the misuse was an equivocation as such.

As is the careful nitpicking of my post you last posted, which ranges from even more cherry picking, to more sweeping assumptions or dismissals with no substantiation, to the very use of the same fallacies you accuse me of in order to argue against said fallacies, to inept use of legal terminology.

Here is the hand-waving, and it is entirely yours. I systematically showed what was wrong with your arguments, and you respond with abuse and with a refusal either to go at any point or to acknowledge your errors.

you've basically moved on

No. I've been arguing pretty much the same way from the outset.

to turning this into a criticism of my argument's form rather than any issue with the topic itself.

You want to believe that you can somehow produce an argument that is correct in every important way despite being of worthless form.

I'm not continuing an empty debate where anything I say is simply struck down by any convenient false logic

Again, you are hand-waving.

conceived by a dilettante more interested in his own appearance of cleverness. Is that why you use such a pretentious user name?

And, again, rather than facing your shortcomings, you are telling yourself that someone else is pretentious.

Rail against that all you like,

You entered the discussion railing. My response to you was not to rail in kind, but simply to point-out that what you claimed was true of everyone here simply wasn't. Your response was to become still more belligerent, instead of more thoughtful.

it's enough to know that someone somewhere, called you out and knows what you're trying to do.

Well, that salve for your wounds will keep you from truly healing.

 

[InfiniteEel]

Wish there was more attention given to this series such that a full team is working on the manga. I want to see the side stories being adapted already. Sadly it might not happen since this manga is being released for free.

 

[DLRevan]

I just can't stop laughing. I did say I wouldn't continue debating...and I guess I'm not. But I got to say, even while calling them out, whoever this person is still reverts to form and piece by piece tried to peddle their false version of argumentative theory, appeals to definition and other honestly laughable attempts at self-aggrandizement. They just simply cannot help it and still think they can claim some self-constructed moral high ground.

But we're no longer talking manga, so I certainly ain't running down this road any longer.

 

[Oeconomist]

@DLRevan—

Not only do you return to arguing (as expected), but you resort to not pinging (which is rather worse than what I expected).

In any case, at this point, you are further reduced, to offering now nothing more than hand-waving, sneering (which any one can do at anything), and insisting that what seem to be your errors are somehow really a matter of the other person being pretentious.

If you once again return to an argument that you have once again declared that you have quit, at least be seemly enough to ping me.

 

[Smokeball]

it's a shame that this manga is too slow, I mean it's too few per month and the pace seems like not going anywhere for a year now.

 

[elitemilo]

@Acidroach is there like a strength tier list somewhere