Solo Leveling - Vol. 1 Ch. 42

[Kaarme]

@firosahoge
Isn't that because he's a rare specimen who had never in his life played any game whatsoever? But, yeah, actually I think I've also called him stupid in the past.

 

[firosahoge]

@Kaarme yeah, I think i remember you commenting in early chapters that he was dumb. I think most of the comments in the beginning were about how dumb he is. Recently he hasn't be as dumb as the beginning though.
These kind of stories are really hype though because of how many mistakes he makes. If he was a perfect genius then there wouldn't be much suspense.

 

[Kaarme]

@firosahoge
Maybe the only effect of higher Int isn't just more mana, after all.

 

[firosahoge]

@Kaarme that would make sense. Apparently in the novel version he didn't just randomly forget to do his daily quest but was juggling being a good brother to his sister and ran out of time.

 

[MrEd]

@CallMeAlex look, you are overly disgustingly sensitive over something as simple as constructive criticism, you are going to fail in the real world with that attitude of yours. Kid.

I know the author is a human, and I know there is this thing called professionalism amongst human when people are telling other people at work of what they lacks, purely for the benefit of improvement as a resourceful human, and if you don't like it when people are giving you chances to reflects on yourself or your work, you are not gonna improve and will become too arrogant with yourself as of you are right now, because you don't want to hear people to say any criticism, hell even now when it is addressed to other people. Do you have a phobia of improvement? Since that kind of fear of pain from criticism is abnormal.

I care about this author which is why I want him to be more careful with his story logic next time, what's to fear and painful about that?

Also, you will have no right to criticize or say something when other people take full advantage of that attitude & logic of yours against you by becoming lazy ignorant, and unprofessional if you are working with other people. Just be careful.

 

[MrEd]

@Maala Come on, it is precisely because he is always in a life and death situation that he should have learned by now of how important it is to always be prepared when you are doing something that might put you in a life and death situation xD

Mc in the past also didn't have time to think but with no worries because he is going to be saved by the sudden plot armor ;D I mean it should be his time to shine now with his own strategic thinking and cautiousness, he has already been saved enough times by the plot armor to grow arghhhhh

 

[Amplify]

@firosahoge

plot armor is plot armor, no need to deny it. I actually like dumb mc's. They make things more interesting.

Step 1 for something to be considered plot armour: There must be no forewarning to the event and with no logical, In-Universe explanation.

If you want to use a term. please first learn the definition of it.

 

[Kaarme]

@Amplify
That's hardly true. A main character has plot armour because otherwise the story would be over. The stories where the MC dies are exceptionally rare (not counting death by Truck-kun and rebirth in another world). So, the concept of a plot armour is a broad one. Whenever the MC is saved through convenience where most other characters should have got hurt or perished, it's plausible to say it was the plot armour.

In this particular case only the very precise timing was kind of doubtful, but otherwise there's nothing strange about it. Like I said before, in my opinion even leaving the daily training for after the dungeon is cleared wasn't particularly inexplicable. This world is full of students who only start to study for their exams the previous day. Year after year. You can tell them it's stupid, and many of them would agree, but they do it nonetheless. It's no stranger than the MC here deciding to postpone the chore. Sure, the situation might be more deadly for him, but that deadliness has been his daily life for a long time, so it's nothing out of ordinary for him.

 

[Amplify]

@Kaarme
Plot armor is when a character is suddenly saved by means of armour provided by the plot to keep the story going and not justified with an in universe explanation or forewarned.

The penalty zone has been demonstrated before for exactly what it does and the specifics of it, and earlier in the dungeon it was heavily lampshaded that he has not done his daily training and that he may end up getting the penalty as a result.
A Chekhov's Gun? Sure.
Awfully convenient timing? Sure.
Plot armor? No.

 

[Kaarme]

@Amplify
I'm not sure what you are trying to prove. I'm not even saying this case was a plot armour. I was saying your universal definition of what is a plot armour is too explicit.

 

[firosahoge]

@Amplify no forewarning is more of an asspull than plot armor, or just really badly implemented plot armor. Plot armor is just the fact that the MC can't die. It's protective armor. If the author wants to abuse plot armor like what you said, "There must be no forewarning to the event and with no logical, In-Universe explanation", then that's abusing it.

Here's TV tropes' definition: "Sometimes referred to as "Script Immunity" or a "Character Shield", Plot Armor is when a main character's life and health are safeguarded by the fact that he's the one person who can't be removed from the story. "

MC can't die, period. It doesn't have to be complicated.

 

[Amplify]

@firosahoge
To add the important part that you deliberately left out and I was quoting from:

Therefore, whenever (the character) is in a situation where he could be killed (or at the least very seriously injured), he comes out unharmed with no logical, In-Universe explanation.

 

[firosahoge]

@Amplify Like i said earlier, I call that badly implemented plot armor. Plot armor in and of itself is just the fact the MC can't die. Oxford's not going to make an official definition for plot armor so I emphasized one aspect of the trope site's definition, you emphasized another. Clearly you assert that plot armor only applies when there's no logical, in-universe explanation, however, there's many people who just say that plot armor means the MC can't die no matter how dumb he is. If you want to go by how you seem to define plot armor, then there's no logical explanation why he was saved by his daily quest punishment fractions of a second before being offed. That coincidence is way too "lucky" that if he wasn't the main character of the story he should have died.

 

[Sokers]

хм

 

[Amplify]

@firosahoge
If something does not meet the definition of a term, then it is not that term.

The TV Tropes definition of the term clearly defines that there must be no logical, In-Universe explanation for the force that saved the character.
There is a term for a force that saves a character which does have a logical, In-Universe explanation and has been mentioned and hinted at beforehand, so please just use 'Chekhov's Gun' like a normal person.

 

[firosahoge]

@Amplify I rarely even use Chekhov's gun, I just call it foreshadowing. Foreshadowing that he's going to use his punishment timer on his daily doesn't mean the MC deserved to survive that, the MC himself didn't pay attention to the timing. Even if the author foreshadowed it, the MC still should have died in that situation. If it was a smart MC who timed it that would be nice, but he's not smart, he just relied on the sole fact that he's the MC to survive within a millisecond of the last slash. He didn't know what the job change quest would be before going in, so he couldn't have expected his punishment timer to be the perfect counter to the quest.

Anyway, aside from that sentence in the TVtropes definition about illogical universe w/e, it pretty much matches TVTropes "definition" to say plot armor is the fact the MC can't die no matter what. If you want TVTropes to be the gold standard in term definitions, then you're putting the wiki contributor on a pedestal, and we both know how foolish that is. I can literally go in there and edit out the illogical universe portion of the "definition" of plot armor.

This debate is kind of pointless though because we both have different views on plot armor. You're not gonna change yours and I won't change mine, so we can just agree to disagree. My view is plot armor is the fact that the MC can't die, ie, he's literally protected because he's essential to the plot. If he's saved by plot armor by the universe when it makes no logical sense, I call that an asspull.

 

[Amplify]

@firosahoge
It is not common for the character in question to expect to have to use a Chekhov's gun later, it just tends to happen that it's in just the right time and right place when the time comes through lucky convenience.

You're right, there's no point in me trying to debate with somebody whose argument amounts to them being able to change the definition of something at will by editing the internationally decided standard, therefore it doesn't count. I guess I could go open my dictionary and pencil you in under "idiot" as the last definition and that automatically makes it true. Urban Dictionary wouldn't be a reliable source for it (for example) as that's multiple listings of each individual's interpretation of a term, but TV Tropes is the closest thing to a gold standard that exists for tropes as it has gone through discussion and refinement with people all around the world to find the most accurate definition possible. You were using it as a definitive source yourself earlier, then suddenly backed away from it when it no longer suited your argument and now choose to rely solely on personal belief like a religious argument might.

Base your definitions on delusion all you like, it's not going to change facts or the closest thing that exists to them.

 

[firosahoge]

@amplify although I'd like to continue this discussion, seeing your lack of respect implies that it's a fruitless endeavor. Ad hominem is a logical fallacy for a reason.

 

[Amplify]

@firosahoge
http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
DH2, and you've managed a 4 once (by withholding info). Your arguments have been patently silly, if you don't even try then why would I?

 

[firosahoge]

@Amplify I'm not "Responding to Tone" because I already dismissed myself from the discussion, I just explained why I did. There's no point in discussing things with someone who doesn't show respect. In any case, I'm blocking you. Have a nice day.