Souzai Saishuka no Isekai Ryokouki - Ch. 51

[Amariithynar]

And for those wondering why the Queen calls herself "King" it was common in old cultures when a woman became the one in charge to adopt the title of "King" since in some languages the word King isn't gendered or the word for the leader spouse was literally just "consort" on something similar.

"Queen" literally means "King's wife" (or widow) from Middle English's quene, but it also means "female sovereign, woman ruling in her own right, female ruler of a state"; it is ultimately derived from the Old Saxon quan, meaning "wife", with the latter meaning deriving from Old English cwen (itself also derived from Old Saxon's quan); beyond that we hit the PIE root *Gwen-. In no language is Queen NOT gendered; however, "King" is itself not gendered, which is why female rulers historically could and would call themselves kings, like the Polish King Jadwiga; the problem was getting to the position and being accepted by the peers of the kingdom, as was an issue for her sister, King Mary of Hungary and Croatia, as they preferred her cousin, Charles III of Naples, to her, and her husband Sigismund to her, as well, especially after she abdicated the throne for Charles but then he was murdered at the behest of her mother, paving the way for Sigismund to press his claim as legitimate heir (her father had named him as such in actuality) and become King of Hungary and Croatia, on top of his already formidible power as the Margrave of Brandenburg, which eventually led to him becoming the Holy Roman Emperor.

 

[Tatsuya-Kai]

I cant help but to think that their "curse" is actually the result of generations of inbreeding.

The closed their territory and now they are on the brink of extrintion.

Inbreeding likely wouldn't cause a extinction level event on it's own, but yes that's likely the main cause, considering all of us put it together immediately i wonder why the author is even bothering to drag this out.

 

[Kshatria]

it's the power of MSG
lolol

 

[Someone011]

I cant help but to think that their "curse" is actually the result of generations of inbreeding.

The closed their territory and now they are on the brink of extrintion.

That's what came to my mind first as well.
It's not only the fact that it's a VERY closed community that would inevitably see first and second cousins inbreeding(if not siblings) ,but the high elves have shown that they think "breeding" among high magic power individuals will produce more magically gifted offspring, so the cases where two "magically talented" individuals(who would be chosen to produce another offspring among them) come from the very same bloodline should be many.

That and also the fact that one of the most severe issues inbreeding poses is the birth of children with missing limbs eyes etc that don't survive long, just like the elven children do due to the "curse".

 

[kaikalaila]

So.....its that lizard's fault!!!! /s

 

[blablablub]

So inbreeding to weaken all the babies and the excessive magic essence dealing the killing blow is my guess.

 

[Amariithynar]

That and also the fact that one of the most severe issues inbreeding poses is the birth of children with missing limbs eyes etc

Where is this "fact" coming from? I've seen several people now uncritically state this, but it's not true. Limb malformation can be genetic in cause, yes, but it's from genetic code being malformed or mutated; this isn't an inbreeding issue. Inbreeding (within humans at least) means that you are getting a much smaller gene pool to pull from in regards to the male and female gametes and thus the same negative and positive traits (from both recessive and dominant gene groups) can be expressed more easily each time you proceed a generation, as you become much more likely to get pairs of recessive or dominant alleles. That is why we got the Habsburg Jaw, for example, because it's caused by recessive genes; you won't just see someone who doesn't have those genes produce kids that have the Habsburg Jaw, no matter what. Conversely, a mutation causing a third specific gene that shouldn't exist is the cause for the distinctive facial dysmorphism common to those with Down's Syndrome; you won't ever see it caused due to inbreeding. Similarly, a (sadly) fairly common mutation in genes tied to reproduction is what cause the malformed sperm that are resultantly not motile enough to induce pregnancy, rendering such men functionally sterile.

Some references:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1571054/
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2023/apr/researchers-show-genetic-basis-facial-changes-down-syndrome
https://www.merckmanuals.com/en-ca/...-muscles/missing-or-incompletely-formed-limbs
https://www.webmd.com/children/autosomal-recessive-disease

 

[Goldenzeal]

they will breed with MC

Not that i would be against it, I enjoy "Road to kingdom" as much as the next guy.
But it is not that type of manga xD

 

[dahhv2]

It's either radiation or inbreeding like everyone else said

 

[Amariithynar]

It's either radiation or inbreeding like everyone else said

Two posts above you. It's NOT inbreeding.

 

[Someone011]

Where is this "fact" coming from? I've seen several people now uncritically state this, but it's not true. Limb malformation can be genetic in cause, yes, but it's from genetic code being malformed or mutated; this isn't an inbreeding issue. Inbreeding (within humans at least) means that you are getting a much smaller gene pool to pull from in regards to the male and female gametes and thus the same negative and positive traits (from both recessive and dominant gene groups) can be expressed more easily each time you proceed a generation, as you become much more likely to get pairs of recessive or dominant alleles. That is why we got the Habsburg Jaw, for example, because it's caused by recessive genes; you won't just see someone who doesn't have those genes produce kids that have the Habsburg Jaw, no matter what. Conversely, a mutation causing a third specific gene that shouldn't exist is the cause for the distinctive facial dysmorphism common to those with Down's Syndrome; you won't ever see it caused due to inbreeding. Similarly, a (sadly) fairly common mutation in genes tied to reproduction is what cause the malformed sperm that are resultantly not motile enough to induce pregnancy, rendering such men functionally sterile.

Some references:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1571054/
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2023/apr/researchers-show-genetic-basis-facial-changes-down-syndrome
https://www.merckmanuals.com/en-ca/...-muscles/missing-or-incompletely-formed-limbs
https://www.webmd.com/children/autosomal-recessive-disease

The fact is in the list of risks on inbreeding one of which is "Increased risk of genetic disorders" one such genetic disorder is "Congenital limb malformations" that include missing or malformed limbs.
So yeah, whilst inbreeding is not the sole reason for limb malformations and missing limbs, it does increase the chances of such malformations appearing by quite a bit, especially if the inbreeding has been happening for however long these elves have isolated themselves from the rest of the world without the introduction of at least a few "foreign" genes as it happens in the real world.

Some references:
https://study.com/academy/lesson/inbreeding-definition-coefficient-and-effects.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110863013000037
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/570260/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...ibuting to increased congenital malformations.

 

[Amariithynar]

The fact is in the list of risks on inbreeding one of which is "Increased risk of genetic disorders" one such genetic disorder is "Congenital limb malformations" that include missing or malformed limbs.
So yeah, whilst inbreeding is not the sole reason for limb malformations and missing limbs, it does increase the chances of such malformations appearing by quite a bit, especially if the inbreeding has been happening for however long these elves have isolated themselves from the rest of the world without the introduction of at least a few "foreign" genes as it happens in the real world.

Some references:
https://study.com/academy/lesson/inbreeding-definition-coefficient-and-effects.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110863013000037
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/570260/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3215379/#:~:text=Consanguineous marriages have been described,contributing to increased congenital malformations.

Read your own sources next time maybe? "Congenital malformation (CM) began to emerge as one of the major childhood health problems and it refers to any abnormality, whether genetic or not, which is present at birth." Genetic effects of consanguinity result in things like the Habsburg Jaw, as I noted, because, as your sources note, "Genetic effects of consanguinity can be traced to the fact that the inbred individual may carry two copies of a gene that was present in a single copy in the common ancestor of his/her consanguineous parents"; It's not consanguinity itself that causes such malformations, but the mutated or damaged genes that the parents are a carrier of. Two non-carriers that have a consanguinous relationship won't ever have issues related to such, while two carriers will have an increased risk... but you'd have the same risk amongst pairs that are non-consanguinous, which is what you and a lot of other people in this thread don't understand, and what I was pointing out. Maybe a visual aid will help with that?

 

[Someone011]

Read your own sources next time maybe? "Congenital malformation (CM) began to emerge as one of the major childhood health problems and it refers to any abnormality, whether genetic or not, which is present at birth." Genetic effects of consanguinity result in things like the Habsburg Jaw, as I noted, because, as your sources note, "Genetic effects of consanguinity can be traced to the fact that the inbred individual may carry two copies of a gene that was present in a single copy in the common ancestor of his/her consanguineous parents"; It's not consanguinity itself that causes such malformations, but the mutated or damaged genes that the parents are a carrier of. Two non-carriers that have a consanguinous relationship won't ever have issues related to such, while two carriers will have an increased risk... but you'd have the same risk amongst pairs that are non-consanguinous, which is what you and a lot of other people in this thread don't understand, and what I was pointing out. Maybe a visual aid will help with that?

You completely ignored all other factors including the ones that explicitly state that one of the risk factors of Inbreeding are indeed "Increased risk of genetic disorders".

Furthermore the chance of the same kind of genetic disorder being present in two individuals is rather rare (especially if we are talking about Congenital limb malformation disorders).
Not so rare if those individuals share a common ancestry, in a closed off community where inbreeding is common the chances of two people carrying the same genetic disorder genes increases exponentially with each generation. So yeah, inbreeding does in fact play a role.

 

[dahhv2]

It's a fantasy manga ffs

 

[Amariithynar]

You completely ignored all other factors including the ones that explicitly state that one of the risk factors of Inbreeding are indeed "Increased risk of genetic disorders".

Furthermore the chance of the same kind of genetic disorder being present in two individuals is rather rare (especially if we are talking about Congenital limb malformation disorders).
Not so rare if those individuals share a common ancestry, in a closed off community where inbreeding is common the chances of two people carrying the same genetic disorder genes increases exponentially with each generation. So yeah, inbreeding does in fact play a role.

Once again you fail to read; it seems to be a consistent problem for you. The increased risk factor for inbreeding is solely due to the much smaller selection of alleles that can be chosen, which means recessive or dominant gene pairs happen much more easily; this means that if there is a mutation or genotoxically damaged gene that is carried forward by the parents, the children have a much greater risk of it pairing up with itself because of the shared carrier state and thus, the resulting autosomal disorder. The same, however, occurs with non-consanguinous partners that are both carriers of the same defect; the only thing having consanguinous partners results in is a greater chance of ssimilar genes by percentage of population.

Unless you're DNA testing to ensure dissimilarity, it's just a bigger pool of options for non-consanguinous, so less likely to make any recessive OR dominant pairs (and this is why true redheads have been vanishing slowly over time; it's always recessive. So are blue eyes, with brown eyes being most dominant), and that's all. If there is no mutation or genotoxic damage to cause such autosomal disorders, consanguinous partners will not experience them at a higher rate simply for being consanguinous. It solely relies on there being damage or mutation in the first place, just like any other.

Or, most simply, "correlation is not causation". Consanguinity is not the cause of gene damage or mutation. It just makes it easier to pair such damage or mutation so it expresses itself.

 

[isoycrazy]

What an interesting manga. Come for the isekai, stay for the two people yelling about genetics and inbreeding. These stories have such interesting fan bases.

 

[Nhiroz]

Caught up!

 

[dahhv2]

Two posts above you. It's NOT inbreeding.

Spoiler: Chapter 52

It's inbreeding, now what

 

[morichiro]

The fact that "different blood" is talked a lot, makes me think that "old elves" realized that keeping "pure blood" will eventually lead to their demise. And in a roundabout way (that stele thing) they told to their successors to eventually get a new "different blood"...

So they realized that if they kept their "pure blood" for too long it will lead to blood thickening (yes it can be hereditary). So look out for this "different blood" that will save them... just an idea. I'll just keep reading.

Edit: Just read ch 52 and well. I wasn't that far off

 

[ZelousR2]

When Incest is no longer Wincest because of Inbreeding