Taida na Akujoku Kizoku ni Tensei Shita Ore, Scenario wo Bukkowa Shitara Kikaku-gai no Maryoku de Saikyou ni Natta - Ch. 17 - Necessary Evil and Abso…

[KaisarX]

Skill issue, personally i just wouldnt build my country on such a flawed and unsustainable system to begin with but i guess everyone cant be as perfect me umu

people kinda didn't intentionally build it. war happen, you need cash and food but you promise your guy to live a good life.
what you did? enslave loser so they contribute long term to you or short term by paying them to your guy.
and if that keep happen? slave trade.

 

[KaisarX]

all this arguing is soo tedious. lets all just agree that we (yes WE) all agree on all of our souls that slavery is a good thing and we should bring it back

more like agree that some people here, their mom eat tyrenol and they can't understand nuance as a result.
we should pity the intellecture incapable redditor here. cause reading and understand someone is hard.

 

[KaisarX]

Every time a manga introduces slavery into its plot, or even mentions it, the comments section goes wild xD.

Let's not forget that slavery has reached alarming levels worldwide. There are more slaves TODAY than at the height of the transatlantic slave trade.

Slavery takes many forms. How do you describe a job you can't leave because you can't afford it? A job that's slowly killing you, but you know that if you quit, you'll starve to death in a week?

Stop shouting that "slavery" is wrong; we know it, everyone knows it.

To live in a world without slavery, it would require a lot of bloodshed, a lot of corrupt politicians' heads rolling, and probably a profound reform of human nature (yes, we're falling back into communism… where EVERYONE is a SLAVE).

That's the paradox of utopia: you start to solve a problem, and the solution becomes even worse. (I'm still in favor of beheading corrupt politicians to restore balance ^^)

Slavery cannot be eradicated; it can only be counterbalanced.

Those who promise magic solutions will always disappear in the end of the show.

THIS. everyone here know that slavery is bad and understand that there will be problem afterward if we didn't treat the core problem.
some redditor moron read this and decide to go "hue hue i am smarted and good guy, genocide is bad, killing is bad. i am right, you guy are bad, cause you see i come up with a fomula of bad= bad, and you didn't agree to that so you are bad"
and when we provide a reason, instead of refute it just go "wah wah i can't hear you, you guy support slavery"
like holy fucking shit. are we the same human that have brain. did you guy hungry or eat breakfast today?
Weiss can't provide a solution then cause even WE FUCKING CAN'T

the "slavery is bad" people, prey tell me what you did today to stop slavery in africa nation today.

huh nothing and comment on manga about reincarnated as villian. oh

it hilalious that weiss point about shouting empty idea without any nunach and understand is what trigger these moron.
remind me of chibidoki tweet about loving her father and sundenly a bunch of fatherless people start to get trigger.

 

[Shinigamisama]

Allen is simply not looking at the bigger picture.

 

[UdenEmpati]

Commenters trying even harder then MC to justify slavery lol

MC who is mentally a grown ass man from the modern world and comes from a place of privilege is beefing with a actual orphan child bc said child said slavery. MC also gave no other response to slavery besides "poor ppl dont deserve anything" propaganda.

also all of you are downplaying how bad slavery actually is\was.

And you're joining them in also missing the point of the chapter.

The 'slavery history lesson dispute' wasn't the point that was being made by the author. It was that the MC was losing control of Actual Weiss, who was coming to the surface more and more to antagonize Allen, to the point of starting to influence MC's behavior.

Milk said as much at the end of the chapter, and her falling asleep while MC is ranting and raving about his argument with Allen is a signal to the reader that we're not supposed to be focusing on the subject matter of MC's anger, but on the fact that it was Allen that made him mad.

People here aren't "justifying slavery", they're caught in the weeds over-explaining why Weiss objected to Allen's empty platitudes of "slavery bad! nobles bad!" because while that's a correct statement, it does fuck-all to actually address the problem.

But again - not the point of the chapter. Simply the unfortunate choice of vehicle by the author to indicate that the MC took a position he, as a person from modern Japan, might not otherwise take, because the amoral and sadistic villain he's incarnated as is being more influential than normal when it comes to reacting to Allen.

 

[tuatara1]

He really is a wretched piece of shit, but he's the edgy protagonist so a certain readership will bend over backwards to defend him.

This is clearly not for me. I don't really understand why it would appeal to anyone, but oh well. Have fun with it, I guess.

 

[DeOneChester]

more like agree that some people here, their mom eat tyrenol and they can't understand nuance as a result.
we should pity the intellecture incapable redditor here. cause reading and understand someone is hard.

Apparently English is hard too. My god. Proofread before you send.

 

[NotSomeone]

like how? without creating massive economic, social and kingdom stability issue. either way, bloodbath going to happen like how America civil war did. so if you suggesting that he need to do what he can to abolish it, please tell the best method to do it as Weiss.

if not, you just like Allen, idealism without touching the reality.

Don't be a fucking conformist.
If a system relies on slavery to work, the system must be broken. Allen's ideas are not impractical. We know the nobility is worthless within the system and that the world can and should work without slaves.
Would you give up on a better world just because it's not easy? Would you let your children and your children's children be slaves just because you might die fighting for their freedom?

Most of the socioeconomic problems that would arise from freeing slaves are because the nobles don't want to pay for labour, so they can keep having unfathomable profit to keep their lavish lifestyles going. They are 100% capable of paying for labour and still profit from the work produced by a person within a workday.

And if these nobles really wanna keep the status quo so bad that they would start a war, then give them war. Better die fighting for freedom than to live a life within shackles.

 

[KaisarX]

Apparently English is hard too. My god. Proofread before you send.

Apparently, you can't read. also just to be sure.
How would you feel if you did not have breakfast this morning?
cause you sound like "i eat breakfast this morning" kind of tool.

​

 

[Akudia94]

Don't be a fucking conformist.
If a system relies on slavery to work, the system must be broken. Allen's ideas are not impractical. We know the nobility is worthless within the system and that the world can and should work without slaves.
Would you give up on a better world just because it's not easy? Would you let your children and your children's children be slaves just because you might die fighting for their freedom?

Most of the socioeconomic problems that would arise from freeing slaves are because the nobles don't want to pay for labour, so they can keep having unfathomable profit to keep their lavish lifestyles going. They are 100% capable of paying for labour and still profit from the work produced by a person within a workday.

And if these nobles really wanna keep the status quo so bad that they would start a war, then give them war. Better die fighting for freedom than to live a life within shackles.

Except Nobles in this world have better magic and resources for war compared to commoner.

Plus, IRL when we abolish slavery, child labor, human right still bad. oh, now you free, so either you become jobless and bum and die in the gutter or work under me with meager payment. like Modern day slavery we have today. what worse those slaves not even have house to shelter as it not employer jobs to provide shelter but owner jobs to provide shelter.
if you go to Third world country, there are a lots of child labor, underpaid worker and no basic employee right.

Heck, even in USA, Amazonz worker are being cut down break and toilet break and work like slaves. what worse, they also have loan to pay. Freedom in name but not actually freedom.

slavery is bad, but removing without changing society and laws to protect worker right only make them suffer the worse.

let's say you free them overnight. then they all lose their jobs, no shelter to sleep and food given to eat. so they needs to find a jobs, place to rent and food to eat.

then who could provide the jobs again? The rich, aka the nobles. so the rich exploiting the worker, like how mega rich billionaire already did IRL today did, should they go and do revolution too? if not, about time we go revolution and murder those CEO and Wall street broker. That what your suggestions right? don't tell me slavery is bad but exploiting worker using Capitalism as excuses is right because it is damn wrong too.

what you suggesting is socialism. rich must pay more and taxes more for poor having a better life. Pure Capitalism country is bad. About time we goes to war with Pure Capitalism country like USA. those bad and evil capitalism that exploiting worker and let the oligarchs richer should be dismantled.

you know what, agree with you.

like you said, all socio economic problem could be solve if Mega rich billionaire pay more and take less cut on their profit for themselves and shareholders. they 100% able to pay their employees more and still making profits. if those Billionaire wanted to keep status quo so bad we should started a war with billionaire too. better die fighting for our right rather be shackles by living cost and loan right.

time to eradicated those bad Billionaire from this earth for better and free world.

 

[Distillix]

Depending on how it worded and how you interpret it, slavery still exist in our modern times and people even seek it. Underpaid labor, overtime work, etc. They are in a way, modern form of slavery.

What's happens with slavery in the story is they "forced" it for the orphans to keep them "alive" with very few option to "free" from it. Is it bad? Again, it depends. If we're expecting free welfare and school as the solution, where's the funds for that gonna come from? Nobles? King? Doubt they will agree with that easily. If we're expecting to keep slavery? That'll just gonna be repeating issue with no solution. Personally, it'll be better to gradually make slavery system into formal job vacancy that could at least protect the orphans from any physical abuse.

 

[dcdfvr]

I love how the comments are simply about slavery when that wasn't the only issue Allen had with Weiss. It was also the fact Allen wanted the nobility gone and for the government itself to be gone because he believes everyone should be equal and should be helping eachother. So not only did he want the slaves free but for the nobility to also be gone. He was stating this infront of a class full of Nobles. Weiss coming from a Noble background compared to the commoner that is Allen would see things differently, in that the nobles should be the ones to guide the people. Corrupt nobles should be removed from power that way more people would be able to be happy. They both just have opposing views.

 

[justmadeforthat]

Another Isekai with slavery fetish

 

[dcdfvr]

Another Isekai with slavery fetish

Um no. This issue has very little to even do with the story and is used as a means to differentiate Allen's and Weiss' views how their world works on a political level. Weiss used to have slaves at his home but he freed them all either hiring them as actual servants or just letting them go with compensation. He understands enough to know that in this world slaves are much better off than being left for dead or forced into criminal activities, even if he himself is against it.

 

[Dirt_Lord]

lmao yes slavery is "necessarily" evil, just 'cause the slaves were poor doesn't somehow make it not an ontologically evil thing to do to someone, goofy ass manga.

 

[Iwantrobux]

To your point about the United States being a more-or-less unique case due to its practice of chattel slavery - we also have no idea whether the setting in-story is the same, or more like the serfdom/"spoils of war" model seen elsewhere in history.

That's not to defend the practice. And, I also recall that Weiss (or at least the protagonist who becomes Weiss) isn't "for slavery" - but that his whole gripe about the confrontation with Allen was over Allen's idealism clashing with the logistical realities of actually removing a foundational pillar of a country's social & economic apparatus.

That's what this chapter is ultimately about, I think. That he's just pissed off over Allen jumping up and making these claims that, while true in essence and certainly lovely-sounding platitudes, he's doing it in a setting full of the people whose families are the exact sort of individuals and groups who directly benefit from the practice, and comprise the social caste Allen is raving against.
Allen, and orphan commoner, is understandably passionate about the issue - but speaking out as a near-lone dissenter just causes problems for him, and for anyone close to him, and he's also offering nothing in the way of actually addressing and fixing the issue, colossal and immensely complex as it is.

And when the protagonist calls him out on that, Allen just gets pissy and verbally accosts him, and that awakens the Actual Weiss inside him, who bares his fangs at Allen because of the weirdly fundamental animosity between them as a part of the world's settings, or something, and that is likely very tiring or at least annoying for the protagonist to deal with.

So yes - the slavery thing is the backdrop to the conflict of the chapter, but it's more about the protagonist having trouble keeping a lid on the asshole inside him, because Allen's blind idealism risks friction within the social fabric of the academy (which will have knock-on effects for everyone there including the protagonist the more it goes on), and is directly and personally riling up the Weiss of the setting, which is directly problematic for the protagonist.

I read all of this because of you mentioning United States in the beginning. I don’t know if that’s revealing anything but that it’s important to mention. Weiss + mc is somewhat perfectly balanced for now. I think Weiss may still count as the main owner lad of the body but is forced to be a non-verbal and nonconsensual backseat driver(most of the time). i think it’s more of having someone sign into your body but with a verification method, you might get your body back if they didn’t get full technical owner shop.
-
Even if Weiss himself doesn’t care and the mc cares a bit normally, he only cares to contradict Allen.
So that would multiply the output of what the mc actually wants to do.

 

[Haze123553]

This is a meta commentary about slavery that I've noticed in a lot of isekai and it probably stems from slavery not being chattel type slavery like in america but the japanese really really seem to believe in the "benevolent slave master" idea when it comes to how it's depicted in fantasy.

The general isekai slop will usually have an mc who's supposedly representative of the 21st century ideals on slavery quickly buy a slave whom he almost always ends up sleeping with in his harem, they usually sort this by having the slave master be a super good guy who doesn't actually treat em like slaves but it's still weird how frequently it shows up as a positive in manga.


As for the people arguing about slavery being higher today etc and no one doing anything etc etc. Your comparing a hidden act which is generally illegal in most countries and while practiced usually done so in very hidden methods away from the public eye to the buying of slaves on the street. It's literally not the same.

 

[Flyingavocados]

Don't be a fucking conformist.
If a system relies on slavery to work, the system must be broken. Allen's ideas are not impractical. We know the nobility is worthless within the system and that the world can and should work without slaves.
Would you give up on a better world just because it's not easy? Would you let your children and your children's children be slaves just because you might die fighting for their freedom?

Most of the socioeconomic problems that would arise from freeing slaves are because the nobles don't want to pay for labour, so they can keep having unfathomable profit to keep their lavish lifestyles going. They are 100% capable of paying for labour and still profit from the work produced by a person within a workday.

And if these nobles really wanna keep the status quo so bad that they would start a war, then give them war. Better die fighting for freedom than to live a life within shackles.

End slavery -> production craters, prices skyrocket, new unemployed poor class -> general panic -> economic collapse -> government collapse -> civil war -> foreign invasion -> new ruler implements slavery. 25% of population now dead or enslaved because you didn’t have a plan.

 

[UdenEmpati]

This is a meta commentary about slavery that I've noticed in a lot of isekai and it probably stems from slavery not being chattel type slavery like in america but the japanese really really seem to believe in the "benevolent slave master" idea when it comes to how it's depicted in fantasy.

The general isekai slop will usually have an mc who's supposedly representative of the 21st century ideals on slavery quickly buy a slave whom he almost always ends up sleeping with in his harem, they usually sort this by having the slave master be a super good guy who doesn't actually treat em like slaves but it's still weird how frequently it shows up as a positive in manga.


As for the people arguing about slavery being higher today etc and no one doing anything etc etc. Your comparing a hidden act which is generally illegal in most countries and while practiced usually done so in very hidden methods away from the public eye to the buying of slaves on the street. It's literally not the same.

I wonder if it has to do with the culturally/historically-outsized focus on social hierarchy in Japan.

Conservative ideologies care a lot about "those above and those beneath", and Japan has always been quite conservative in how the various societies run within it at varying levels of both political and cultural structure. Whether it's deference to your ancestors, your superiors at work, your parents, your general elders of the community, your teachers, your employers, your government officials - there's a very real "tier list" of those who listens to who, who gives orders to who, who takes precedence over who.
So if that's an ingrained reality of Japan's culture, it will also show up in their literature, including manga.

I might be stretching - but the somewhat-recent fascination with "benevolent slavery" within Isekai stories might be a product of that sort of hierarchical thinking, exaggerated in some respects (because wish-fulfillment for lonely young men would, I think somewhat understandably if questionably for a few, include "getting ownership of hot girls who'll gratefully go to bed with me"), and include the "it's a good thing!" because the reader identifying with the MC wants to feel like a good person and not some sick maligned individual.
And slavery is sorta the ultimate hierarchy between humans, and "can be explained" in a fantasy setting wherein a "normal Japanese person" gets shunted into a world of swords and magic and dragons and ....slave demihuman big titty chicks that can be bought, treated well, and will put out for you as a result.

 

[syrop]

Huh, hello based department?