Tamen de Gushi - Ch. 241

[Korath]

This always was on #1 spot when a new chapter came out on reddit/manga - before it got neutered as someone said. So obviously it would have sold. Author probably missed out on some 5 digits.

 

[T-sama]

This always was on #1 spot when a new chapter came out on reddit/manga - before it got neutered as someone said. So obviously it would have sold. Author probably missed out on some 5 digits.

Flawed logic, asian authors don't give a single fuck about how popular their work is in the west, we simply don't matter for them.

 

[outinthegardener]

About other GL/BL stuff being published without issue: The CCP guidelines are vague and are not enforced unless the author/series gets reported by people or your regular scheduled reminder that the CCP controls everything inside the main land.

Seems like this statement is vague.
1) the publisher put those demands on the artist. Unless the publishing company is literally the CCP, why blame the CCP for it?
2) Every government decides on laws and enforces them to mixed degrees. Every government censors certain things.
3) The CCP does not control everything, plenty of businesses are allowed a good deal of freedom. Individuals have a great deal of freedom. This is like saying "The government said we have to pay taxes, they control everything!"
4) The question is also a cultural one, not just one of policy. Cultural beliefs about homosexuality, patriarchy, filial piety, all existed before the 1949 revolution, and still exist to this day, though they are slowly changing.

If there was a statement from either the artist or the publisher that "due to pressure from the CCP/a specific rule against depicting a lesbian kiss/etc" I'd agree that this is government censorship. Until I see that, isn't it private censorship? Or just a publisher deciding what they want to publish?

 

[Onepunchjoey]

the first physical volume was made in 2015 but the second one got put on permanent hold in 2018 because the publisher (zhejiang people's fine arts publishing house,) wanted to have the overly queer queer scenes (aka the kiss scene) removed or censored, but tan jiu was frustraited and decided to wait until its allowed before continuing the story and is now focused on improving his art. if i am recalling correctly. so its not dead, its just in a limbo until zjpph changes their tune

The art does look much improved, tbh.

 

[FiddlePop]

Honestly this series has become such a core memory to me. I used to read this like 5-6 years ago, but despite that going through the recent updates, and seeing Qi Tong hug the cat body pillow -- my brain suddenly shouted "QI TONG"

I don't know what made me remember her name. I'm pretty awful with Chinese and Korean names, I don't even remember them correctly for the series I'm currently following. But this one for some reason was engraved in the deepest recesses of my brain.

I sincerely wish that the author gets to make the story that they truly wanted to make and express everything that they haven't been able to.
Not being able to see Fluttering Feelings reach the conclusion it wanted to broke my heart, I wish the same doesn't happen to yet another beloved story of mine.

 

[Kamui]

Seems like this statement is vague.
1) the publisher put those demands on the artist. Unless the publishing company is literally the CCP, why blame the CCP for it?
2) Every government decides on laws and enforces them to mixed degrees. Every government censors certain things.
3) The CCP does not control everything, plenty of businesses are allowed a good deal of freedom. Individuals have a great deal of freedom. This is like saying "The government said we have to pay taxes, they control everything!"
4) The question is also a cultural one, not just one of policy. Cultural beliefs about homosexuality, patriarchy, filial piety, all existed before the 1949 revolution, and still exist to this day, though they are slowly changing.

If there was a statement from either the artist or the publisher that "due to pressure from the CCP/a specific rule against depicting a lesbian kiss/etc" I'd agree that this is government censorship. Until I see that, isn't it private censorship? Or just a publisher deciding what they want to publish?

You missed my point. No business exists in China without the CCP oversight. The publisher requirements didn't appear in a vacuum, it happened because of crackdown on LGBTQ stuff that was happening at the time.

Also you are extremely naive if you think anyone in China could make a statement saying "the CCP censored me" without it not disappeared alongside the person.

 

[T-sama]

Not being able to see Fluttering Feelings reach the conclusion it wanted to broke my heart, I wish the same doesn't happen to yet another beloved story of mine.

https://imgur.com/a/qSLyNOA

 

[T-sama]

You missed my point. No business exists in China without the CCP oversight. The publisher requirements didn't appear in a vacuum, it happened because of crackdown on LGBTQ stuff that was happening at the time.

If something isn't allowed, directly or indirectly, CCP is definitely involved.

Also you are extremely naive if you think anyone in China could make a statement saying "the CCP censored me" without it not disappeared alongside the person.

Oh the person wouldn't disappear, they would be sent to a "re-education camp" and be used as example against anyone else who thinks of saying anything even slightly negative about the CCP.

 

[nyannibalism]

some of y'alls sayin some real conspiracy shit in here

 

[orb4eva]

i love this series but its sad when its fans believe the craziest things,,, like ive seen many ppl spread that tan jiu received death threats from the ccp and was forced to stop publishing! thats actually crazy ! tan jiu refused to release a 2nd vol physical publication of her work bc the publisher (company) wanted her to censor the kiss and she didnt want to. she could've made a lot of money but chose to be true to her work.

ppl say she chooses to upload more as a passion project without that monetization. it's an admirable thing she did to decide not to censor herself so its unfortunate that a lot of ppl say she was forced ! whether the publishing company was influenced by the ccp or not, there's no actual evidence of ccp involvement. theres a lot of very popular gl and bl !

 

[Teaborg]

If this doesn’t make you wanna be an absolute goof with your cute partner idk what to say, thank you for the abundance of sweetness 🥹 wish we could get more explicitly romantic content (like others are saying) but this is still superb stuff

 

[T-sama]

some of y'alls sayin some real conspiracy shit in here

Is it though? It's a known fact CCP likes to keep a short leash on the population.

i love this series but its sad when its fans believe the craziest things,,, like ive seen many ppl spread that tan jiu received death threats from the ccp and was forced to stop publishing! thats actually crazy ! tan jiu refused to release a 2nd vol physical publication of her work bc the publisher (company) wanted her to censor the kiss and she didnt want to. she could've made a lot of money but chose to be true to her work.

No proof she could have made a lot of money, yuri is always niche, also, true to her work? What work? The story was completely abandoned.

ppl say she chooses to upload more as a passion project without that monetization.

What passion exactly? All updates we got after were pointless snippets with basically no romance.

it's an admirable thing she did to decide not to censor herself so its unfortunate that a lot of ppl say she was forced ! whether the publishing company was influenced by the ccp or not, there's no actual evidence of ccp involvement.

CCP is always involved with everything, directly or indirectly, they literally decide what can or can't be done in the country.

theres a lot of very popular gl and bl !

Yes, online, how many ever get actual physical release though? Saying there's a lot of popular GL and BL in China is pointless since I'm pretty sure 99.9% of them never got physical release for obvious reasons.

People forget that like Russia the CCP tries to keep control of the internet in their country, when it comes to online stuff you only read what you're looking for, physical release though? Anyone who sees it between other books can get their hands at it, including children and their parents.

There's a reason the publisher wanted to censor the queer aspect of the story, and it's not hard to guess why they wanted to do that.

 

[Shinkutsuki]

Thanks for the chapter

 

[orb4eva]

Is it though? It's a known fact CCP likes to keep a short leash on the population.

No proof she could have made a lot of money, yuri is always niche, also, true to her work? What work? The story was completely abandoned.

What passion exactly? All updates we got after were pointless snippets with basically no romance.

CCP is always involved with everything, directly or indirectly, they literally decide what can or can't be done in the country.

Yes, online, how many ever get actual physical release though? Saying there's a lot of popular GL and BL in China is pointless since I'm pretty sure 99.9% of them never got physical release for obvious reasons.

People forget that like Russia the CCP tries to keep control of the internet in their country, when it comes to online stuff you only read what you're looking for, physical release though? Anyone who sees it between other books can get their hands at it, including children and their parents.

There's a reason the publisher wanted to censor the queer aspect of the story, and it's not hard to guess why they wanted to do that.

im sorry but its pretty obvious theres not going to be a productive conversation talking to you, you're clearly just p strongly anti-china haha.

and u also dont actually have a lot of the information. censorship happens all the time culturally, everywhere, you are assuming anti-queer=ccp action even though the ccp is anti-queer because it's already a cultural phenomenon ! ppl are homophobic all the time. the legend of korra in the US for example was censored from showing an explicit lesbian relationship. not going to say thats exactly the same ofc but many companies are going to move in the interests of profit/brand.

u just like to make a lot of weird assumptions ! 99.9% dont get physical release for obvious reasons ? what reasons are those? that the ccp will kill them ? if you dont know what youre talking abt, why keep talking? also yes, there would have been profit. it was very popular even though she received a lot of hate online.

true to her work, refusing to censor herself (the kiss) for profit. i mean it's pretty obvious i didn't think anyone would need to spell that out for you.

i imagine its disheartening to continue the plot-driven story after the whole debacle, but as you can see she does continue with chapters abt them on occasion. the story was also always filled with these snippets in the first place, its just that the plot doesnt continue. someone said she didnt want to continue unless things were cleared up with the publisher, but i don't know about that. but you can see that her artist friend/manhua creator in her same group/studio posted BL that was much more explicit. why do u suppose old xian wasnt arrested ?

ofc there ARE bad censorship laws and things that happen im just saying ppl severely inflate it in this case without any evidence of it. just using it to spread anti-china when there are things u can actualy go after to feed ur agenda

 

[liquid_2]

thanks for the chapters <3

was really nice seeing these two again, hopefully the story gets restarted someday....

 

[T-sama]

im sorry but its pretty obvious theres not going to be a productive conversation talking to you, you're clearly just p strongly anti-china haha.

You're not sorry, it's why you used strawman argument, I also criticize other governments, like USA, Russia, Japan, even my own, because they all do something wrong, it's quite telling that only when CCP is even slightly criticized thst you guys go "you're anti China wah wah!"

and u also dont actually have a lot of the information. censorship happens all the time culturally, everywhere, you are assuming anti-queer=ccp action even though the ccp is anti-queer because it's already a cultural phenomenon ! ppl are homophobic all the time.

I have a lot of information, not all censorship is the same, and western governments don't try to force censorship like in the past, unlike many non western countries that many times outright makes a crime to even mention anything LGBTQ

the legend of korra in the US for example was censored from showing an explicit lesbian relationship. not going to say thats exactly the same ofc but many companies are going to move in the interests of profit/brand.

Wow, what you said is absolutely bullshit and completely different situation
First of all government had nothing to do with Korra
Second Korra was a original work to begin with, so anything that happens to it had to be approved and nobody knew where it would go, unlike Tamen de Gushi which being gay was known way before a physical release was even planned
Third, they weren't censored, Korra and Asami not only ended together, even if the ending wasn't as explicitly as it should, but we have multiple books not only showing their relationship, but showing also other queer characters
Fourth, you mentioned companies, reminder that we're getting more and more cartoons with explicitly LGBTQ themes, Steven Universe, She-Ra, The Owl House, times changed, now tell me how many animations with explicitly queer romance in China?

u just like to make a lot of weird assumptions ! 99.9% dont get physical release for obvious reasons ? what reasons are those? that the ccp will kill them ? if you dont know what youre talking abt, why keep talking? also yes, there would have been profit. it was very popular even though she received a lot of hate online.

Why I talk? Freedom of speech, I live in a free country, deal with it, also, if I'm so wrong tgem why not give examples? Go on, give me 10 explicitly queer romance physical manwhas released in China, I'll wait.

And before you try run away from this, I don’t mean explicitly as in sexual, but that shows them being undeniably gay with kiss and such.
It's quite telling that you simply say I'm wrong and should stay quiet.

true to her work, refusing to censor herself (the kiss) for profit. i mean it's pretty obvious i didn't think anyone would need to spell that out for you.

I also don't need to spell out to you that her work was completely abandoned, she dropped it for months, and when she came back to it she completely neutered the romance, sure she didn't censor her work for money, but she also completely give up on it, that's not being true to your work, people who are true to their work continues it.

i imagine its disheartening to continue the plot-driven story after the whole debacle, but as you can see she does continue with chapters abt them on occasion.

Objectively wrong, she does random snippets about the characters, she never actually continued the work for real

the story was also always filled with these snippets in the first place, its just that the plot doesnt continue.

Plot never continued, and now it's only snippets

someone said she didnt want to continue unless things were cleared up with the publisher, but i don't know about that. but you can see that her artist friend/manhua creator in her same group/studio posted BL that was much more explicit.

Yes, only online, no physical release

why do u suppose old xian wasnt arrested ?

Who said anything about arresting? Another strawman argument about hypotheticals that were never mentioned even once.

ofc there ARE bad censorship laws and things that happen im just saying ppl severely inflate it in this case without any evidence of it. just using it to spread anti-china when there are things u can actualy go after to feed ur agenda

All censorship is bad, and all you're doing is whining because someone dared to criticized China, you're attacking me as a person instead of focusing on the subject, because your arguments are weak.

Also accusing me of agenda is laughable and paranoia, I criticize all governments, don't act as if China is a poor little victim of eeeeevil western bullying.

 

[quorramoon]

I'm gonna miss them for all my whole life and i love them so much
Thank you for translating

 

[orb4eva]

You're not sorry, it's why you used strawman argument, I also criticize other governments, like USA, Russia, Japan, even my own, because they all do something wrong, it's quite telling that only when CCP is even slightly criticized thst you guys go "you're anti China wah wah!"

I have a lot of information, not all censorship is the same, and western governments don't try to force censorship like in the past, unlike many non western countries that many times outright makes a crime to even mention anything LGBTQ

Wow, what you said is absolutely bullshit and completely different situation
First of all government had nothing to do with Korra
Second Korra was a original work to begin with, so anything that happens to it had to be approved and nobody knew where it would go, unlike Tamen de Gushi which being gay was known way before a physical release was even planned
Third, they weren't censored, Korra and Asami not only ended together, even if the ending wasn't as explicitly as it should, but we have multiple books not only showing their relationship, but showing also other queer characters
Fourth, you mentioned companies, reminder that we're getting more and more cartoons with explicitly LGBTQ themes, Steven Universe, She-Ra, The Owl House, times changed, now tell me how many animations with explicitly queer romance in China?

Why I talk? Freedom of speech, I live in a free country, deal with it, also, if I'm so wrong tgem why not give examples? Go on, give me 10 explicitly queer romance physical manwhas released in China, I'll wait.

And before you try run away from this, I don’t mean explicitly as in sexual, but that shows them being undeniably gay with kiss and such.
It's quite telling that you simply say I'm wrong and should stay quiet.

I also don't need to spell out to you that her work was completely abandoned, she dropped it for months, and when she came back to it she completely neutered the romance, sure she didn't censor her work for money, but she also completely give up on it, that's not being true to your work, people who are true to their work continues it.

Objectively wrong, she does random snippets about the characters, she never actually continued the work for real

Plot never continued, and now it's only snippets

Yes, only online, no physical release

Who said anything about arresting? Another strawman argument about hypotheticals that were never mentioned even once.

All censorship is bad, and all you're doing is whining because someone dared to criticized China, you're attacking me as a person instead of focusing on the subject, because your arguments are weak.

Also accusing me of agenda is laughable and paranoia, I criticize all governments, don't act as if China is a poor little victim of eeeeevil western bullying.

read it again. keep ur eyes open this time !!

u sound like a doof. it’s good to criticize all governments but try to criticize them for things they actually are doing, that would help!

like i said, theres no proof that the ccp is preventing tan jiu from continuing the story. even u urself are for some reason also implying she’s only prevented from releasing physically. so is it that she’s just not “true to her work” and thats why she’s not continuing the plot or that the ccp is threatening her so she’s not continuing the plot? can you pick one and stick to it?

it’s a perfectly apt comparison. tlok was censored from explicitly being gay in the show by the nickelodeon despite not being actively censored by the government. completely possible for that to happen in other places (even china :O !!) i beg u to make even the most basic connections to see how the two can be related. (dw its not hard!)

“objectively wrong” “she makes snippets” like i already said, those slice of life snippets were always a huge part of the main work. she just doesnt upload the stronger story driven parts.

let me reiterate a couple of times bc it seems to be a tough concept for ya: she’s being true to her work (the work she created) by not publishing the volume with the gay parts censored (which wouldnt be her work bc parts were removed/censored). publishing the censored version (not true to her work) would not be true to her work. because her work was not censored and the published version would be censored. see how the uncensored version which is her work being not butchered is her work and being true to her work? or should i repeat it a couple more times till you learn how to read?

i dont know why youre bringing up those western cartoons as if its relevant? tlok was a specific example for obvious reasons, but i couldve brought up any instance of company censorship without government interference. the point was obviously company censorship without gov interference. im not going to keep responding if u change the subject and force me to waste my time responding to horrible arguments.

i’m also not going to do a fetch quest for you hello ? physical volumes do get stricter censorship yes, crazy how that STILL doesnt mean there was direct ccp interference with tamen de gushi. do u believe the ccp is forcing tan jiu to quit her story (even online) or not?

its like ur simultaneously saying “tan jiu has no passion for her work” and “tan jiu was threatened by ccp and cant upload any more of the story” so which is it? or should u just admit u dont know what youre talking about and are just speculating in order to cement your “its always ccp” belief ?

here’s the actual truth: “tan jiu has not continued the plot-driven aspects of tamen de gushi after refusing to censor the second physical publication of her work. she continues to upload the slice of life aspects of her work sporadically as she feels like it, without the physical volume monetization.” everything else you’re saying is just assumptions. there is no proof, anywhere, that tan jiu was actually threatened by the ccp and forced to quit the story.

 

[orb4eva]

You're not sorry, it's why you used strawman argument, I also criticize other governments, like USA, Russia, Japan, even my own, because they all do something wrong, it's quite telling that only when CCP is even slightly criticized thst you guys go "you're anti China wah wah!"

I have a lot of information, not all censorship is the same, and western governments don't try to force censorship like in the past, unlike many non western countries that many times outright makes a crime to even mention anything LGBTQ

Wow, what you said is absolutely bullshit and completely different situation
First of all government had nothing to do with Korra
Second Korra was a original work to begin with, so anything that happens to it had to be approved and nobody knew where it would go, unlike Tamen de Gushi which being gay was known way before a physical release was even planned
Third, they weren't censored, Korra and Asami not only ended together, even if the ending wasn't as explicitly as it should, but we have multiple books not only showing their relationship, but showing also other queer characters
Fourth, you mentioned companies, reminder that we're getting more and more cartoons with explicitly LGBTQ themes, Steven Universe, She-Ra, The Owl House, times changed, now tell me how many animations with explicitly queer romance in China?

Why I talk? Freedom of speech, I live in a free country, deal with it, also, if I'm so wrong tgem why not give examples? Go on, give me 10 explicitly queer romance physical manwhas released in China, I'll wait.

And before you try run away from this, I don’t mean explicitly as in sexual, but that shows them being undeniably gay with kiss and such.
It's quite telling that you simply say I'm wrong and should stay quiet.

I also don't need to spell out to you that her work was completely abandoned, she dropped it for months, and when she came back to it she completely neutered the romance, sure she didn't censor her work for money, but she also completely give up on it, that's not being true to your work, people who are true to their work continues it.

Objectively wrong, she does random snippets about the characters, she never actually continued the work for real

Plot never continued, and now it's only snippets

Yes, only online, no physical release

Who said anything about arresting? Another strawman argument about hypotheticals that were never mentioned even once.

All censorship is bad, and all you're doing is whining because someone dared to criticized China, you're attacking me as a person instead of focusing on the subject, because your arguments are weak.

Also accusing me of agenda is laughable and paranoia, I criticize all governments, don't act as if China is a poor little victim of eeeeevil western bullying.

the irony of trying to say im strawmanning you and then IMMEDIATELY strawmanning in your opening paragraph and then more through your entire post. i NEVER said you didnt criticize other governments? i said youre anti-china. strongly. which is CLEARLY true. the other times you said “strawman” weren’t strawman arguments also, and you also brought up things with no relevance to my argument multiple times. like how i never said US companies are still strict with their cartoons and yet you decided to carry on with that. i wish you could actually respond to what im saying so we could have a real discussion but like i guessed, that’s clearly not happening.

 

[gumiislife]

the irony of trying to say im strawmanning you and then IMMEDIATELY strawmanning in your opening paragraph and then more through your entire post. i NEVER said you didnt criticize other governments? i said youre anti-china. strongly. which is CLEARLY true. the other times you said “strawman” weren’t strawman arguments also, and you also brought up things with no relevance to my argument multiple times. like how i never said US companies are still strict with their cartoons and yet you decided to carry on with that. i wish you could actually respond to what im saying so we could have a real discussion but like i guessed, that’s clearly not happening.

Good job, agent 47 - the denizons of this particular manga hosting service do not suspect that Our Party dislike gay people.

Please report to your local commissar and receive an extra half-ration of crickets. Your social credit score will now attract the envy of the entire polystyrene neighbourhood 🫡