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Tenju no Kuni
- Thread starter MangaDex
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Dex-chan lover
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@fchiisaia21 Holy s't, thats dirt cheap. I remember buying Dragon Ball almost 20 years ago, they cost 5 USD back then. Add inflation, probably around 7-8 current standard.
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In chapter 11. They introduced "polygamy" theme but the author or the translator used the wrong word. When a female has more than one husband it isn't called "polygamy"; it's called polyandry and both cases are horrible either way.
They made Kan Shiba think of the possibility that his fiance Moshi Rati have the ability to have one more husband than him which doesn't make any sense to me. It made me irritated beyond words. Worst chapter I've read yet.
"It's not like my wife is mine alone after all" - Kan Shiba. She literally is. What a fucking laughable and stupid sentence from the author. Ruined my reading experience introducing fucking polyandry in the scene from a shitty cuckold side-character.
The side-character said "But there isn't any girl I'd expect that of"; of being monogamous? Are the author stupid?
Well, considering that Izumi is a girl names, then the author is surely a female and thought "what a fantastic idea to show that the women can decide whether they want one or more husbands in a formally, originally monogamous marriage set by the parents of the children by years back.
Even after ranting this out, i'm still fucking irritated by the author interpreting of this nonsense.
They made Kan Shiba think of the possibility that his fiance Moshi Rati have the ability to have one more husband than him which doesn't make any sense to me. It made me irritated beyond words. Worst chapter I've read yet.
"It's not like my wife is mine alone after all" - Kan Shiba. She literally is. What a fucking laughable and stupid sentence from the author. Ruined my reading experience introducing fucking polyandry in the scene from a shitty cuckold side-character.
The side-character said "But there isn't any girl I'd expect that of"; of being monogamous? Are the author stupid?
Well, considering that Izumi is a girl names, then the author is surely a female and thought "what a fantastic idea to show that the women can decide whether they want one or more husbands in a formally, originally monogamous marriage set by the parents of the children by years back.
Even after ranting this out, i'm still fucking irritated by the author interpreting of this nonsense.
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where are the missing chapters?
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The volume 3 releases were, when we started uploading, easily accessible on other sites. So we started on volume 4.
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@crazybars @Glaistig_Uaine
would much prefer reading here than support non-translator site/non-creator site cronies ;_;
would much prefer reading here than support non-translator site/non-creator site cronies ;_;
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@Cake-kun
That is fair. Although we have no immediate plans of redoing those chapters, I will discuss it with our translator and put up a poll on our next chapter. If most people would like it redone in our style and our TLer is ok with it, we could probably do 11-15 (most likely after we finish it though).
That is fair. Although we have no immediate plans of redoing those chapters, I will discuss it with our translator and put up a poll on our next chapter. If most people would like it redone in our style and our TLer is ok with it, we could probably do 11-15 (most likely after we finish it though).
@FTU
Calm down its not that serious of an issue. The author is just presenting us with one of the unique aspects of Tibetan culture. It only happened between brothers anyway, so Kan Shiba isn't worried about that.
He's worried about if he could love another woman as much as he loves Rati, when the other guy says "But there isn't any girl I'd expect that of", he isn't talking about monogamy, he's talking about if he could love a woman enough to say she is only his. You have to understand this is written from the perspective of 18th century Tibetans, modern Western notions of marriage don't really hold up here.
Calm down its not that serious of an issue. The author is just presenting us with one of the unique aspects of Tibetan culture. It only happened between brothers anyway, so Kan Shiba isn't worried about that.
He's worried about if he could love another woman as much as he loves Rati, when the other guy says "But there isn't any girl I'd expect that of", he isn't talking about monogamy, he's talking about if he could love a woman enough to say she is only his. You have to understand this is written from the perspective of 18th century Tibetans, modern Western notions of marriage don't really hold up here.
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Also he's wrong on the Polygamy bit.
From Wikipedia: Polygamy (from Late Greek πολυγαμία, polygamía, "state of marriage to many spouses")
It's also like that in all the dictionaries i've seen. Polygamy is being married to more than 1 spouse, Polygyny is more than one wife, Polyandry is more than one husband.
And our views don't really interact into this, it's a whole different society and way of thinking, even compared to modern day Asia.
From Wikipedia: Polygamy (from Late Greek πολυγαμία, polygamía, "state of marriage to many spouses")
It's also like that in all the dictionaries i've seen. Polygamy is being married to more than 1 spouse, Polygyny is more than one wife, Polyandry is more than one husband.
And our views don't really interact into this, it's a whole different society and way of thinking, even compared to modern day Asia.
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Additionally!
Both Polyandry and Polygyny were practiced in Tibet (Childs 72-74). Interestingly they also practiced Polygynandry (Childs 75), which i've never heard of till now. Polyandry was the NORM for relationships in Tibet, as any family with 2 or more sons would practice Polyandry, and with no sons but 2 or more daughters they did Polygyny. Only with 1 son did they practice Monogamy, and even then that wasn't set in stone as they could include a second husband in the marriage who was not blood related, although that was rare. I would chaff a little bit at the "I couldn't imagine a wife only having one husband" as monogamy was practiced in Tibet, and sometimes Polyandrous/Polygynous/Polygynandrous relationships would deteriorate into several sets of monogamous relationships (with the inclusion of another outside participant). Polygynous relationships were actually much less common than Polyandry (not gonna explain magpa in Tibetan culture, but you're free to look it up).
I'm not going to include much more data/writing on it as I've expressed what I want but I will include other citations that I would have used were I writing something longer.
Goldstein, Melvyn C. “Stratification, Polyandry, and Family Structure in Central Tibet.” Southwestern Journal of Anthropology, vol. 27, no. 1, 1971, pp. 64–74. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/3629185.
Goldstein's paper discusses problems in ethnological research before 1971 as there were wildly differing reports on if Monogamy of Polygamy was more or less common, relating it to social and economical factors in Tibet.
Lau, Timm. “The Hindi Film’s Romance and Tibetan Notions of Harmony: Emotional Attachments and Personal Identity in the Tibetan Diaspora in India.” Journal of Ethnic & Migration Studies 36, no. 6 (July 2010): 967–87. doi:10.1080/13691831003643389.
BERREMAN, GERALD D. “Polyandry: Exotic Custom Vs. Analytic Concept.” Journal of Comparative Family Studies, vol. 11, no. 3, 1980, pp. 377–383. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/41601144.
Childs, Geoff. Tibetan Transitions : Historical and Contemporary Perspectives on Fertility, Family Planning, and Demographic Change, BRILL, 2008. ProQuest Ebook Central.
Not in Tibet, but an interesting read and shows a more widespread inclusion of Polyandry in the region: Sommer, M. (2015-09-15). Polyandry and Wife-Selling In Qing Dynasty China: Survival Strategies and Judicial Interventions.
https://www.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1525/california/9780520287037.001.0001/upso-9780520287037.
Edit in to directly relate to what the guy said:
And introducing polyandry is the correct decision for the manga. As much as the manga is about Kan Shiba and Moshi Rati, it is also about Tibet and its customs, and so it would be wrong for the author to deliberately leave it out. On the "my wife is mine alone after all" bit, it's more to do with the idea or sudden realization that he might end up with another man being married to Moshi. Kan Shiba is a young guy with no real experience in relationships, he's trying to figure stuff out and hasn't fully sorted everything out.
Also, women or men choosing to change up their marital status was and is not uncommon in Tibet. It's a lot more dynamic than Western marriages.
Both Polyandry and Polygyny were practiced in Tibet (Childs 72-74). Interestingly they also practiced Polygynandry (Childs 75), which i've never heard of till now. Polyandry was the NORM for relationships in Tibet, as any family with 2 or more sons would practice Polyandry, and with no sons but 2 or more daughters they did Polygyny. Only with 1 son did they practice Monogamy, and even then that wasn't set in stone as they could include a second husband in the marriage who was not blood related, although that was rare. I would chaff a little bit at the "I couldn't imagine a wife only having one husband" as monogamy was practiced in Tibet, and sometimes Polyandrous/Polygynous/Polygynandrous relationships would deteriorate into several sets of monogamous relationships (with the inclusion of another outside participant). Polygynous relationships were actually much less common than Polyandry (not gonna explain magpa in Tibetan culture, but you're free to look it up).
I'm not going to include much more data/writing on it as I've expressed what I want but I will include other citations that I would have used were I writing something longer.
Goldstein, Melvyn C. “Stratification, Polyandry, and Family Structure in Central Tibet.” Southwestern Journal of Anthropology, vol. 27, no. 1, 1971, pp. 64–74. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/3629185.
Goldstein's paper discusses problems in ethnological research before 1971 as there were wildly differing reports on if Monogamy of Polygamy was more or less common, relating it to social and economical factors in Tibet.
Lau, Timm. “The Hindi Film’s Romance and Tibetan Notions of Harmony: Emotional Attachments and Personal Identity in the Tibetan Diaspora in India.” Journal of Ethnic & Migration Studies 36, no. 6 (July 2010): 967–87. doi:10.1080/13691831003643389.
BERREMAN, GERALD D. “Polyandry: Exotic Custom Vs. Analytic Concept.” Journal of Comparative Family Studies, vol. 11, no. 3, 1980, pp. 377–383. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/41601144.
Childs, Geoff. Tibetan Transitions : Historical and Contemporary Perspectives on Fertility, Family Planning, and Demographic Change, BRILL, 2008. ProQuest Ebook Central.
Not in Tibet, but an interesting read and shows a more widespread inclusion of Polyandry in the region: Sommer, M. (2015-09-15). Polyandry and Wife-Selling In Qing Dynasty China: Survival Strategies and Judicial Interventions.
https://www.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1525/california/9780520287037.001.0001/upso-9780520287037.
Edit in to directly relate to what the guy said:
I mean, she DOES have the ability to marry another man, and would be expected to if Kan had a brother :V
I'll just note that this ISN'T cuckolding, in like... every sense of the word?
And introducing polyandry is the correct decision for the manga. As much as the manga is about Kan Shiba and Moshi Rati, it is also about Tibet and its customs, and so it would be wrong for the author to deliberately leave it out. On the "my wife is mine alone after all" bit, it's more to do with the idea or sudden realization that he might end up with another man being married to Moshi. Kan Shiba is a young guy with no real experience in relationships, he's trying to figure stuff out and hasn't fully sorted everything out.
I would say, as i've not opened up the chapter to recheck the scene, that she is saying I don't expect a girl to remain monogamous if she found someone else she also loved/etc.
Izumi is not a girls name, not explicitly. It's unisex and both a first and last name. We also don't know the kanji construction of it from the English to tell what it is, as well as I believe it is a last name here?
Also, women or men choosing to change up their marital status was and is not uncommon in Tibet. It's a lot more dynamic than Western marriages.
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@afroCAN @Glaistig_Uaine
I get it that the author is displaying the Tibetan custom back then, but imagine if Kan Shiba theoretically had a younger or elder blood brother and he "needed" to share his wife with someone else when he has no say in anything. This is something I don't like, and I don't care if it was ages ago. And like Uaine said she still has the ability to marry anyone else if she wants to.
Let's say, that a married couple's wife want to have another husband, can the husband reject it? And if he can't, can he possibly divorce her, if she doesn't retreat her annunciation? Or is that he must obligate even if he doesn't want to?
I am still pissed off even if anything the author is showing off is true historically.
I get it that the author is displaying the Tibetan custom back then, but imagine if Kan Shiba theoretically had a younger or elder blood brother and he "needed" to share his wife with someone else when he has no say in anything. This is something I don't like, and I don't care if it was ages ago. And like Uaine said she still has the ability to marry anyone else if she wants to.
Let's say, that a married couple's wife want to have another husband, can the husband reject it? And if he can't, can he possibly divorce her, if she doesn't retreat her annunciation? Or is that he must obligate even if he doesn't want to?
I am still pissed off even if anything the author is showing off is true historically.
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I'm not gonna call anyone here an incel for not liking the decision the author made, for i find myself in the same situation.
That said, i believe it to be the right descision given the historical context in which the manga takes place. And while it may not fit my taste, i can still respect it. Those who say the author did this as some feminism tactic would probably not mind if it was the male who got to have more than one wife, making them biased and sort of hypocritical.
I find the people that actually get completely mad at this kind of funny. I mean, You couldn't be more obvious about your insecurities of getting cuckholded than by getting actually offended of how it is in a different culture.
I guess what i'm trying to say is regardless of whether or not your historical waifu fantasies get fulfilled doesn't stop this manga from being good, because that isn't what this manga is mainly about, just like @Glaistig_Uaine said.
If you do want to fulfil your irrealistic, unreasonable waifu needs (and there's nothing wrong with that), you have a lot of manga that does that. Really. Like most of it.
If what you want is a realistic story that isn't afraid of hurting your feelings for the sake of historical integrity, you will most likely not get mad at second hand fictional "cuckholding".
That said, i believe it to be the right descision given the historical context in which the manga takes place. And while it may not fit my taste, i can still respect it. Those who say the author did this as some feminism tactic would probably not mind if it was the male who got to have more than one wife, making them biased and sort of hypocritical.
I find the people that actually get completely mad at this kind of funny. I mean, You couldn't be more obvious about your insecurities of getting cuckholded than by getting actually offended of how it is in a different culture.
I guess what i'm trying to say is regardless of whether or not your historical waifu fantasies get fulfilled doesn't stop this manga from being good, because that isn't what this manga is mainly about, just like @Glaistig_Uaine said.
If you do want to fulfil your irrealistic, unreasonable waifu needs (and there's nothing wrong with that), you have a lot of manga that does that. Really. Like most of it.
If what you want is a realistic story that isn't afraid of hurting your feelings for the sake of historical integrity, you will most likely not get mad at second hand fictional "cuckholding".
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What the heck is up with this translation
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Wow, just ... wow. This chapter is just too broken to read. I appreciate Chewbacca scans' enthusiasm in wanting to scanlate, but I really do have to recommend finding an English speaker to proofread for you. Since that doesn't seem likely, blocked.
