The Blood Princess and the Knight - Vol. 2 Ch. 49 - The Verdict
- Thread starter MangaDex
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lol, what a kangaroo court. Every single thing about it is so opposite to the concept of law and order that it's actually rather funny.
The accused? Tied to stake for easy slaughtering even before court starts. The place? Wide open space (just imagine court when it rains). The environment? Apparently on the side of the street with tons of people wandering by (Security? What's that?). Anyone to represent the defendants? lol, no. The prosecutor? Apparently the random accuser themselves, and also with apparently no need to provide any proof of wrongdoing before chaining people to posts in a court. The Judge? Someone of importance, which makes zero sense considering how much of a sham the whole thing is. Improper conduct in the courtroom? Instant death! Who can voice opinions in the court? Apparently everyone, including the random people on the street!
Get's even worse when you realize that the villains here are not only high in status, but also completely expected their plan to work, which means either their utterly stupid (unlikely) or that it really would have normally worked (e.g. They could get people convicted with no evidence, or get away with murdering the defendants in court).
Makes me wonder what justice looks like in China to inspire such a shining example of righteous law keeping.
The accused? Tied to stake for easy slaughtering even before court starts. The place? Wide open space (just imagine court when it rains). The environment? Apparently on the side of the street with tons of people wandering by (Security? What's that?). Anyone to represent the defendants? lol, no. The prosecutor? Apparently the random accuser themselves, and also with apparently no need to provide any proof of wrongdoing before chaining people to posts in a court. The Judge? Someone of importance, which makes zero sense considering how much of a sham the whole thing is. Improper conduct in the courtroom? Instant death! Who can voice opinions in the court? Apparently everyone, including the random people on the street!
Get's even worse when you realize that the villains here are not only high in status, but also completely expected their plan to work, which means either their utterly stupid (unlikely) or that it really would have normally worked (e.g. They could get people convicted with no evidence, or get away with murdering the defendants in court).
Makes me wonder what justice looks like in China to inspire such a shining example of righteous law keeping.
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@frungy this is a fantastical world where vampires can twist people's minds and slay thousands in an instant, hordes of monsters hunger for human flesh and great walls of steel and concrete are built to keep the slavering hordes from destroying everything... And you're worried about due process?
It's really not surprising that the judicial system is a farce given the most effort is put into keeping people alive, but to go and say "it must be a farce in a comic because of what's going on in China" is pretty racist.
Here, why don't you go and read Judge Dredd, a British comic series about a cop who summarily executes criminals on the streets after they've surrendered, and go and say how bad the criminal justice system is in the UK, why don't you?
It's really not surprising that the judicial system is a farce given the most effort is put into keeping people alive, but to go and say "it must be a farce in a comic because of what's going on in China" is pretty racist.
Here, why don't you go and read Judge Dredd, a British comic series about a cop who summarily executes criminals on the streets after they've surrendered, and go and say how bad the criminal justice system is in the UK, why don't you?
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Even without MC being there, the trial was going to end the same regardless. With such flimsy evidence provided, and the fact that the Flamespear family heir was their to preside as the judge just bewilders my mind on how they thought they could have the tiniest chance at succeeding.
The public is so easily swayed lol
@frungy
Rather than modern day China, it seems to be inspired by how the trials looked 200+ years ago world-wide, Europe included. The whole thing being open to the public and public executions were quite common in the past. There are some knights guarding the perimeter here and that's the amount of security to be expected from an event open to the public.
In the past it also was commonplace for a judge to not be someone specialised in judging, but simply a local authority like a mayor or sheriff and any time there's a bribed person in a high position there will be shams.
And since it looks like the whole society is run mostly by a military organisation in an authoritarian manner, it's not surprising they can get away with running a trial in their favour or executing people immediately. This is no democracy, it's a completely different system.
@frungy
Rather than modern day China, it seems to be inspired by how the trials looked 200+ years ago world-wide, Europe included. The whole thing being open to the public and public executions were quite common in the past. There are some knights guarding the perimeter here and that's the amount of security to be expected from an event open to the public.
In the past it also was commonplace for a judge to not be someone specialised in judging, but simply a local authority like a mayor or sheriff and any time there's a bribed person in a high position there will be shams.
And since it looks like the whole society is run mostly by a military organisation in an authoritarian manner, it's not surprising they can get away with running a trial in their favour or executing people immediately. This is no democracy, it's a completely different system.
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@Yurisivel
Actually no, it was only because MC was there to stir up the process that it ended like this. This entire trial was meant to be just a stunt to gain public approval. All of the judges were on board with it too, except MC, who wasn't even suppost to be there, but managed to sneak himself a spot. Commander Ji didn't really care about this, and likely would have just let things go, as she didnt really want to be there anyways. So if not for MC's involvement, this was already set to be a predetermined trial.
Actually no, it was only because MC was there to stir up the process that it ended like this. This entire trial was meant to be just a stunt to gain public approval. All of the judges were on board with it too, except MC, who wasn't even suppost to be there, but managed to sneak himself a spot. Commander Ji didn't really care about this, and likely would have just let things go, as she didnt really want to be there anyways. So if not for MC's involvement, this was already set to be a predetermined trial.
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Her forehead...
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I'm gonna put aside the easily swayed crowd and due process and such -- that just sorta demands a suspension of disbelief. I'm OK with doing that, otherwise I'd miss out on classic shows like Columbo. Sometimes you just have to let that stuff go. Besides, considering other events this isn't exactly a reasonably run society to begin with.
I mostly just wanted to comment on the twist here -- by her appearance and intense aura, she radiated a sense of a villain or threat. But she turned out to be a wholly reasonable authority figure?! I like that a lot.
I mostly just wanted to comment on the twist here -- by her appearance and intense aura, she radiated a sense of a villain or threat. But she turned out to be a wholly reasonable authority figure?! I like that a lot.
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@MidnighTea
The whole 'suspension of disbelief' starts at the very beginning (Ch1) when they start talking about vampires. Suspension of disbelief means that you accept what the author writes as reality, and not judge it by 'common sense'. Common sense in that universe is entirely decided by the author, and perhaps consultants to the author, and noone else.
And people are IRL also super easily swayed. "Someone posted something on Facebook? MUST be true." There are people that regularly fall victim to sites like Postillion, or other satire sites.
I shall take a gander and say: >90% of people [lack critical thinking skills], and they will believe anything. (See ~50% of US voters. A person they believe in tells them there is voter fraud, despite all evidence against it, and they absolutely believe it.)
Edit: changed (are stupid) to [lack critical thinking skills]
The whole 'suspension of disbelief' starts at the very beginning (Ch1) when they start talking about vampires. Suspension of disbelief means that you accept what the author writes as reality, and not judge it by 'common sense'. Common sense in that universe is entirely decided by the author, and perhaps consultants to the author, and noone else.
And people are IRL also super easily swayed. "Someone posted something on Facebook? MUST be true." There are people that regularly fall victim to sites like Postillion, or other satire sites.
I shall take a gander and say: >90% of people [lack critical thinking skills], and they will believe anything. (See ~50% of US voters. A person they believe in tells them there is voter fraud, despite all evidence against it, and they absolutely believe it.)
Edit: changed (are stupid) to [lack critical thinking skills]
@Red225 @Oculunus
Sure if you go far enough back in (our) time, primative enough in culture, or to a remote area with no resources sure then such legal proceedings might make sense. The Problem is that NONE of those conditions are relevant here.
Tell me, how do you have a city of that scale, with (our) modern day technology (they have freaking cell phones), yet think it's reasonable for them to have such a backwards justice system? Sure the population might be somewhat repressed due to fear of the outside world, but again, to have that level of population and technology would strongly suggest that they are vibrantly thriving not merely surviving here. By every other metric they live in an advanced human society, except for law and justice, which is very unnatural. It's almost like the source of their technological innovation is from somewhere outside of their own culture. As the sheer magnitude of time/people/resources/etc necessary to discover and develop that kind of tech is exceedingly unlikely to happen in such a hostile social structure.
Sure if you go far enough back in (our) time, primative enough in culture, or to a remote area with no resources sure then such legal proceedings might make sense. The Problem is that NONE of those conditions are relevant here.
Tell me, how do you have a city of that scale, with (our) modern day technology (they have freaking cell phones), yet think it's reasonable for them to have such a backwards justice system? Sure the population might be somewhat repressed due to fear of the outside world, but again, to have that level of population and technology would strongly suggest that they are vibrantly thriving not merely surviving here. By every other metric they live in an advanced human society, except for law and justice, which is very unnatural. It's almost like the source of their technological innovation is from somewhere outside of their own culture. As the sheer magnitude of time/people/resources/etc necessary to discover and develop that kind of tech is exceedingly unlikely to happen in such a hostile social structure.
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@frungy
1: large scale genocide caused by intelligent monsters appearing from another world or dimension causing humanity to lose the majority of their population and governments, and to retreat into bunker type cities formed by military defenders that kept everyone alive. From that military tribunals result in being the de facto judgement where the few military personnel are supposed to be incorruptible because they're the only ones standing up to the monsters. (Ala Judge Dredd)
2: Technology produced from intelligent monster that are secretly guiding human technology in a power struggle to weaken other monster factions. (Underworld movie series)
3: The trial normally would be more secure and less of a sham but people are angry because there was just an attack and the whole thing of holding it in public is out of the ordinary, except for the fact that the monsters just attacked
4: This is a dictator banana state akin to North Korea where such shams are commonplace
I could probably think of more but those are the ones off the top of my head.
1: large scale genocide caused by intelligent monsters appearing from another world or dimension causing humanity to lose the majority of their population and governments, and to retreat into bunker type cities formed by military defenders that kept everyone alive. From that military tribunals result in being the de facto judgement where the few military personnel are supposed to be incorruptible because they're the only ones standing up to the monsters. (Ala Judge Dredd)
2: Technology produced from intelligent monster that are secretly guiding human technology in a power struggle to weaken other monster factions. (Underworld movie series)
3: The trial normally would be more secure and less of a sham but people are angry because there was just an attack and the whole thing of holding it in public is out of the ordinary, except for the fact that the monsters just attacked
4: This is a dictator banana state akin to North Korea where such shams are commonplace
I could probably think of more but those are the ones off the top of my head.
@Red225
1. A Judge Dredd scenario doesn't work here, his world was closer to a giant dystopian post-modern slum than the bright, colorful, open, generally prosperous city this story portrays. Not to mention Dredd was a one man army going into hell-holes, while this story is closer to groups of thugs pretending to carry out lawful duties.
2. Unless I recall incorrectly, Underworld was more about humans seeking the secrets of immortality and/or the powers of the vampires and such. While studying bodies can lead to new understandings in our own bodies, it almost never does anything for actual tech (e.g. computers/cellphones/etc).
3. Yes, the villains did say this was a ploy to pacify the public, but even then, this is so close to a public witch burning that to even suggest it has relation to law and order, or even a courtroom is a joke. Even in our own world we have legal action that happens to appease the public, but that still has to follow all the proper procedures and processes, otherwise all reasonable faith in the outcome is lost.
4. It's entirely possible there is a dictator here, but given the fact that there are multiple competing "Knight organizations", whatever leader there is would also have to be completely incompetent. The city seems to be managed more by multiple separate competing militia groups than any sort of organized law and order. If this city can afford to have fracture defense groups, then there is no way the threat to their survival from the monsters can be very high, since the one constant about humanity in every story under the sun is that a powerful outside threat always unifies us against them.
So while yes, as you pointed out there are certainly scenario's where there can be a gap between the social and technological status of a people group, none of the known or reasonable scenario's seem to apply to this stories world setting. That's my complaint, while the real world has random incomprehensible events sometimes, generally speaking, fiction has to make sense at some level or the reader loses faith in the author to tell a coherent tale.
1. A Judge Dredd scenario doesn't work here, his world was closer to a giant dystopian post-modern slum than the bright, colorful, open, generally prosperous city this story portrays. Not to mention Dredd was a one man army going into hell-holes, while this story is closer to groups of thugs pretending to carry out lawful duties.
2. Unless I recall incorrectly, Underworld was more about humans seeking the secrets of immortality and/or the powers of the vampires and such. While studying bodies can lead to new understandings in our own bodies, it almost never does anything for actual tech (e.g. computers/cellphones/etc).
3. Yes, the villains did say this was a ploy to pacify the public, but even then, this is so close to a public witch burning that to even suggest it has relation to law and order, or even a courtroom is a joke. Even in our own world we have legal action that happens to appease the public, but that still has to follow all the proper procedures and processes, otherwise all reasonable faith in the outcome is lost.
4. It's entirely possible there is a dictator here, but given the fact that there are multiple competing "Knight organizations", whatever leader there is would also have to be completely incompetent. The city seems to be managed more by multiple separate competing militia groups than any sort of organized law and order. If this city can afford to have fracture defense groups, then there is no way the threat to their survival from the monsters can be very high, since the one constant about humanity in every story under the sun is that a powerful outside threat always unifies us against them.
So while yes, as you pointed out there are certainly scenario's where there can be a gap between the social and technological status of a people group, none of the known or reasonable scenario's seem to apply to this stories world setting. That's my complaint, while the real world has random incomprehensible events sometimes, generally speaking, fiction has to make sense at some level or the reader loses faith in the author to tell a coherent tale.
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@JavelinJoe
Doubtful. If the butler acted in a way to protect the "accused" without being chastised by his master, then it lends more to the idea that Commander Ji would have went against the guilty verdict from the very start. From what is explained by the MC the Flamespear Family heir didn't make it to her position by simply "letting things go" as you put it. If the most basic of cross-examinations poked massive holes in the prosecution's "flimsy" arguments then Commander Ji would have inevitably declared a lack of "incriminating evidence", as she did at the end of the chapter and even vowed to "never let those who betray humanity off free!". That hardly sounds like someone, who would "let things go". Hence, being a predetermined trial is far from certain.
Doubtful. If the butler acted in a way to protect the "accused" without being chastised by his master, then it lends more to the idea that Commander Ji would have went against the guilty verdict from the very start. From what is explained by the MC the Flamespear Family heir didn't make it to her position by simply "letting things go" as you put it. If the most basic of cross-examinations poked massive holes in the prosecution's "flimsy" arguments then Commander Ji would have inevitably declared a lack of "incriminating evidence", as she did at the end of the chapter and even vowed to "never let those who betray humanity off free!". That hardly sounds like someone, who would "let things go". Hence, being a predetermined trial is far from certain.
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@MidnighTea
That's not how suspension of disbelief works. Even if it is fantasy, there exists a certain thing called "internal consistency" in which certain systems like magic, monsters, or civilizations must operate on. Giving plausibility to those fantastical elements and how they logically exist gives readers the ability to "suspend their disbelief". Nothing exists in a vacuum and common sense must have some supporting foundation for it to function. Just because there are monsters does not automatically give the author a free pass to the reader's "immersion" on the story if said author does not put in the work or effort to make it believable.
That's not how suspension of disbelief works. Even if it is fantasy, there exists a certain thing called "internal consistency" in which certain systems like magic, monsters, or civilizations must operate on. Giving plausibility to those fantastical elements and how they logically exist gives readers the ability to "suspend their disbelief". Nothing exists in a vacuum and common sense must have some supporting foundation for it to function. Just because there are monsters does not automatically give the author a free pass to the reader's "immersion" on the story if said author does not put in the work or effort to make it believable.
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I love how she was reading her book like.. you know I am not a F$%^ing Idiot.I know what happened! I am most likely to have you killed later shut it or you can forget about the later !
