The Flower Dances and the Wind Sings - Ch. 28

Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
69
Its a bit frustrating that vicente's dad (forgot the name) didn't became that pillar of support for her.

Just a few sentences like that from him would've turned the tables around. But I can't expect everyone to have the same disposition that the guy in the chapter has.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2019
Messages
104
@Podi125 Ok, so first of all hello, nice to meet you pal
Now lets get down to business. lmao 😅
So I never said her husband was a fucking monster that doesn't deserve to be happy. Nop, he can do whatever he likes and shit, there's no reason for him to be punished
BUT it's also true that he is not good for her (and the opposite is true as well)
He ignored their problems, ignored her depression and neglected all their issues.
I'm NOT saying that he had to afford all her emotional problems, he is a free person. But she as well need someone that can help her when she is at her worst, not someone that will live her side.
Again I'm not saying he had to do it, he is NOT a bad person because of it, but he's not the ideal partner for someone like her, and she is not the ideal partner for someone like him too.
I just think they should divorce, is not a punishment, is not a bad thing.
But it's the most healthy
My parents their selfs have a friendly divorce when I was young and the only thing I (still) remember is that they were infinitely happier after that and now (almost 10 years later)
Finally, the only thing that I have to say is that we cannot ignore the fact that she was crazily unhappy with her life for YEARS and that were not post part depression anymore. How can one overcome that? How can one forget it? You can't.
 
Fed-Kun's army
Joined
Jun 11, 2019
Messages
709
@Hesteria TL;DR: If you were talking about an amicable divorce, then I can see what you're talking about. Nothing wrong with that. From your original comment and part of your response it felt like you were placing too much blame on the duke for her unhappiness, when most of it was due to unfortunate circumstances. That's what I disagree with wholeheartedly.

Who cares about her husband? He had all her life until now and she is what? Miserable
This implies that you are faulting the duke for the issues within their marriage. Especially the whole, "Who cares about her husband?" part. That implies that you don't care for his happiness.

He ignored their problems, ignored her depression and neglected all their issues.
As I already said, they BOTH ignored all of their problems. She neglected him and didn't put in much effort for the relationship. He loved her, while she rejected him daily. How can you expect him to help or address her issues when she won't let him in? What support can he provide when she isn't open about what is wrong? What support should he provide for a women who is abusing his son? What care can he provide when he doesn't even know what postpartum depression is? They are in the medieval times. They don't know what postpartum depression is, so how can they know how to provide support for it? She wants to feel validated, but she can't express her wishes or desires. It's not fair to expect help without asking for it. The only reason she could be validated by the other guy is because she opened up to him. She never opened up to the duke, so he can't help her. He can't magically know what she wants or how she feels. They both lacked effective communication. He never really asked what was wrong, but she also never opened up herself. They both fucked up.

I like this guy, I like how he does't tell her what she can and can not do (LIKE THATS THE BARE MINIMUM)
The Duke wasn't especially restrictive (If I'm wrong about that correct me), that was more so because of the people under him. They were the ones that were treating her as a foreign object in her own home. I would agree that he is at fault for not realizing what was going on or correcting their behavior, since he is liable for his underlings, but it is important to indicate that he isn't directly invalidating her.

If she just leave the duke, I'll give her my entire support, she's unhappy, she deserve to be happy (and her child too, I must add)
If we are going to be honest, the duke was much better to the child than the mother. She completely neglected him and emotionally abused him for his entire life. The Duke was very strict, but he wasn't abusive. At the very least he was never hateful of his son.

Finally, the only thing that I have to say is that we cannot ignore the fact that she was crazily unhappy with her life for YEARS and that were not post part depression anymore.
This is completely incorrect. She had postpartum depression the ENTIRE time until she died. She was "cured" of it after she when she went back in time (putting cured in quotes because there are still some residual effects of it.) So for those 10+ years, yes she was suffering from postpartum depression. That's the reason why she why abusing and neglecting her son.

How can one overcome that? How can one forget it? You can't.
You can absolutely overcome something like that. It was mainly due to a fuck-ton of miscommunication and just awful circumstances. Repairing a damaged relationship is possible. If it is progressing in the right direction, I don't think there is any reason to just terminate it. There is no need to forget it. It's not like going through hard times magically fixes what happened in the past. But that doesn't mean you can't move forward or move past it.

Again I'm not saying he had to do it, he is NOT a bad person because of it, but he's not the ideal partner for someone like her, and she is not the ideal partner for someone like him too.
I just think they should divorce, is not a punishment, is not a bad thing.
But it's the most healthy
You didn't really put or imply this in any shape or form in your original comment, but I completely get this take and I respect it. Nothing wrong with an amicable divorce. I just think that it would be worth it to put in some effort to repair it first. If it doesn't work out, then yeah just divorce. I don't see a reason to divorce if they are making progress in the right direction, but to each his own.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2019
Messages
104
@Podi125 hello again, hope you have been well
I wanna say that I'm feeling a biiiit attacked, since it was just my comment about MY personal opinion. Like, I just think the main couple should divorce, chill. You do know that questioning me (in such... manner...?) wont get you anywhere, don't you?
But again I will try to explain my point to you, but I want to remember that's my opinion and that you as well have your own
When I said:
Who cares about her husband?
I was talking about how he feels about her
(like how he actually loves her since the beginning, and all)
, because after everything that happened, I don't know about you, but I can't bring my self to
put his love before the health of booth of them
As I already said, they BOTH ignored all of their problems
yeah, I never said she didn't, she's wrong too, but that still do not atone his sins for me
What support should he provide for a women who is abusing his son?
So, ok, lets not put the horses before the carriage: as far as the history has been told (and that I've understood, I must add) she neglected her son. It still bad but she never even laid a finger or verbally denigrated him. So please, abuse it's a very strong word I don't think one should diminish other experiences or banalize them by calling everything an abuse, but again, thats my opinion
And... it's here that I don't want to discuss anymore, it's draining me, I don't exactly looove the tone of your words and I don't really have the time or emotional to discuss abou something so trivial (please, again, don't get me wrong, there are no sin in it just... Me, myself, ain't the right person)
I have a several case of depression that has been accompanying me for a couple of years now, I understand and feel her pain when reading the story. The feeling of pass days in your room, just sleeping and looking at the roof, without any appetite unaware of a reason, the feeling of guilty for being a useless human being that can't just stay a live and leave without proper medicine...
My depression was neglected and came to a point where I found my self being hospitalized. So when I see her depression being neglected by her husband, I'm sorry, but I really can't take his side

Oh, that's important
So now, something that it's not my personal opinion but a CLINICAL FACT
Please, do not say things that you don't know as facts
Postpartum depression can, at the really worst cases, last 6 years, not almost 18.
She had a postpartum depression that lead her in to a severe depression, and that's a completely different clinical picture

So, hope you are... happy?... at easy now I have solved some (not most, I must admit) of your... doubts? topics? provocations? arguments? Call it whatever you want, they are yours at the end of the day, not mine to nominate them
I hope you have a nice day, you and who ever are reading this
 
Fed-Kun's army
Joined
Jun 11, 2019
Messages
709
@Hesteria All I can say is sorry if you are feeling attacked? Kinda came out of the blue. Really wasn't my intention, I thought we were just having a casual discussion. I was having fun with this but ig you weren't. If this isn't your kind of thing, please just mention it earlier lol. I'll just address this last part and move on.

Edit: Regarding my tone, or how I spoke, etc. this is just how I talk. Idk what you want me to do about it. My language is a bit abrasive and oftentimes I speak passionately during discussions or arguments, but there isn't a single part in any of my comments where I insulted you. As far as I'm concerned, this is me having a chill discussion. If how I speak rubs you the wrong way, then sorry ig? Truthfully, I can't be too sincere about it since I feel like I'm being faulted for being who I am. Don't feel like I did anything wrong, so getting called out for it feels weird. I wouldn't go out of my way to verbally assault someone on Mangadex of all places. And if that was my goal, I wouldn't be putting anywhere near as much time as I did into any of these responses.

yeah, I never said she didn't, she's wrong too, but that still do not atone his sins for me
I disagree regarding the whole sinful thing. Messing up a relationship isn't really a sin. It's a mistake, but it isn't anything irreparable. And as I said before, most of his issues stemmed from the fact that
he wasn't present for a while when he was sent off to war. That's what created a large rift between them.

So, ok, lets not put the horses before the carriage: as far as the history has been told (and that I've understood, I must add) she neglected her son. It still bad but she never even laid a finger or verbally denigrated him.
Child neglect is considered emotional abuse, which is a criminal offense. She didn't take care of her child, so yes she was abusive. I disagree that child abuse is something trivial. It completely alters a child's development.

My depression was neglected and came to a point where I found my self being hospitalized. So when I see her depression being neglected by her husband, I'm sorry, but I really can't take his side
Never told you take his side. I was just saying that there are two sides to every coin. In the modern day, humans should be held to different standards than those from the past. Since the husband didn't assist her, not due to mere negligence but due to inability and ignorance, it isn't fair to judge him as harshly as you would treat an individual from the modern era. Since at least someone from the modern era is more likely to know what depression is.

Postpartum depression can, at the really worst cases, last 6 years, not almost 18.
She had a postpartum depression that lead her in to a severe depression, and that's a completely different clinical picture
This part is correct but as I said before, what can you expect him to do when he doesn't even know what depression is? He just thinks she's being a neglectful mother for an unknown reason (Not saying that thought process is correct, I'm just explaining his perspective. It's not completely unreasonable based off of his circumstances or rather the time period he is in.) So expecting him to help her in that situation is unreasonable, because she didn't ask for his help. It's not fair to treat his ignorance as if it were genuine negligence. Negligence implies that one is properly equipped to deal with the situation, but failed to act. As I said before, he simply didn't know better, so faulting him for that is meaningless. It's not as though his intention was to harm or that he didn't care for her. He just didn't realize something was wrong, because the world he is in doesn't understand what mental illnesses are, how to identify signs of them, or how to treat them. What can you expect him to do when placed in a situation like that? People are their situations. If he was born in the modern age, he could have done more. Since he wasn't, there wasn't much he could have done.

I was just trying to engage in effective argumentation. If you don't like that kind of thing, I'm sorry. I will say that at no point did I EVER make this personal or even consider this a personal matter. In fact, I never even really addressed you specifically. My entire comment was about the content of your comments and absolutely nothing beyond that. I'm not attacking or blaming her, or anyone for that matter, for going through depression. I was just trying to explain that no one is a villain here. Everyone is a victim of their circumstances. So I was never really taking a side, because there isn't a right one. You are entitled to your own views just like I am. I'm not trying to change your mind, I just like having discussions like this. If you don't, either don't respond or just say that you aren't interested. Have a good one.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
264
I mean, she clearly said she always enjoyed parties more than she enjoyed studying. If she wants to turn over a new leaf that’s cool. But let’s not pretend that she’s always wanted to be a scholar and was somehow discouraged from doing it. That’s not the narrative so far.
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2019
Messages
66
@sweetlyincensed But why are those two mutually exclusive? She can enjoy going to parties and at the same time yearn to be a scholar. There's nothing stopping her from doing both - aside from the fact that she had to sacrifice for her family..
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top