The One Within the Villainess - Vol. 4 Ch. 18 - The Demon King Angel

Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
224
let me get this straight
they have what looks like advanced architecture and textiles
but haven't figured out crop rotation...?

the style of decor also looks renaissance era...
The fact that it has a coherent style already puts it above most fantasy mangas tbh, not a very high bar to clear

The most braindead case of "generic fantasy style" I've ever seen was in Raeliana, where the (high fantasy) knights have AK74 on their insignia...
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
1,436
Isekai authors are not known for their intellect. Which is why every single one introduces the same exact "innovations" to the place they are sent to. Innovations that often have existed for thousands of years on our planet, and make zero sense for them to not already have. I've seen Isekai Protags introduce water pumps and pulley and lever systems into worlds that are late medieval era, when those have existed since BCE on Earth. So either the planets they are going to are beyond stupid, or the Isekai authors are, guess which gets my vote?
I think Japan gets a pass on this one: The amount of arable land in Japan kept their agricultural development and exploration at a bare minimum, I don't think they got the formal introduction and wide-spread use of of Crop Rotation and Feralization until the 1900's, even Architecture was pretty rudimentary compared to Europe in the same time periods and that's due to the need to often rebuild as a result of earthquakes, typhoons and other natural disasters.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
576
I think Japan gets a pass on this one: The amount of arable land in Japan kept their agricultural development and exploration at a bare minimum, I don't think they got the formal introduction and wide-spread use of of Crop Rotation and Feralization until the 1900's, even Architecture was pretty rudimentary compared to Europe in the same time periods and that's due to the need to often rebuild as a result of earthquakes, typhoons and other natural disasters.
That's actually a pretty valid point, a lot of that stuff wasn't really introduced to Japan itself until the Meiji Restoration in the late 1800's. Still, it wouldn't hurt the authors to do a bare minimum of research before trying to wow us with their deep agricultural or engineering knowledge, especially since most of these stories take place in Europe-adjacent worlds. Though I guess we shouldn't be that shocked at them having a very Japanese-centric view of things and not really care what went on elsewhere, lol.
 
Active member
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
24
To anyone who came here and saw the crop rotation comments. I want to let you all know that they already had that in the manga itself, just not a coined fancy name to go with it, and good improvements to the system (chapter 14). This makes the arguments on here funny cause the introduction of the crop rotation bit is to make fun of the Bitch McGee's lame attempt at it
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
2,430
let me get this straight
they have what looks like advanced architecture and textiles
but haven't figured out crop rotation...?

the style of decor also looks renaissance era...
They already have crop rotation, chapter 14 talked about it.

Hell Remillia says in this chapter her kingdom already practices it and she's just making some changes.

The difference is between Remillia and fish faces changes to the system.

Thot face wants them to randomly grow fodder on the fallow field and graze animals on it, saying the droppings will fertilize the field.

Remillia's is growing legumes in the fallow field to reintroduce nitrogen and to combine that with super compost. The beans themselves can serve as crop or fodder, the organic waste gets composted and then the compost is retilled into the soil for the first stage crops.

The thing is straight manure is too concentrated for crops, generally want to rinse it with water or sun dry it for awhile before using as fertilizer.

Also three crop rotation using legumes is a relatively modern idea compared to when crop rotation was first developed and more modern than 3 crop rotation.
 
Last edited:
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
2,430
The best example is the chicken. Chicken manure contains a lot of nitrogen, which is good for the soil. But if it keep accumulating, the soil become unbalanced and lose efficiency. In addition, chicken dig a lot to find worms, insect and roots. Leaving chiken a few days on a field is beneficial (removing insects, giving nitrogen, ...) but more than that will start to damage the field. If you want further proof: coop are nearly always barren soil because of that.
I just wanted to talk about the chicken part.

What I've seen is using them to help compost piles or kitchen scraps by letting them peck and scratch the pile.

I've also seen some small farmers create mobile coops and basically drag their flock across the fields every couple weeks or so to scatter the droppings better.
 
Active member
Joined
Dec 29, 2023
Messages
8
I'm not convinced by this chapter... Crop rotation already existed in ancient Egypt. It was the number of fields (two, three or even four) and the specific crops grown on each that were refined from the Middle Ages onwards.

The last boom was the introduction of synthetic fertilisers.

In Remilia's world, you should already know a minimum crop rotation to sustain the population of these cities/kingdoms. The magically produced synthetic fertilisers would be revolutionary though.
Isekai authors are not known for their intellect. Which is why every single one introduces the same exact "innovations" to the place they are sent to. Innovations that often have existed for thousands of years on our planet, and make zero sense for them to not already have. I've seen Isekai Protags introduce water pumps and pulley and lever systems into worlds that are late medieval era, when those have existed since BCE on Earth. So either the planets they are going to are beyond stupid, or the Isekai authors are, guess which gets my vote?

This world already used crop rotations. The failed innovation was to remove the fallow stage and compensate with animal fertilizer to replenish the soil instead. Emi clearly had an actual modern understanding of crop rotations/fertilizer and there was that whole bit about finding legumes (to replace nitrogen)

Prince and star maiden half-assedly tried to do the modernize the isekai thing without the requisite knowledge, research, practice, etc.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2024
Messages
36
It takes multiple growth/harvest seasons, which could mean years, to test it. I don't think the prince, or the royal family, who were so eager to kick out Remilia, have that sort of patience.
And it's also mentioned that they also need quite a strong fertilizer for it to work
 
Fed-Kun's army
Joined
Jun 30, 2020
Messages
122
Isekai authors are not known for their intellect. Which is why every single one introduces the same exact "innovations" to the place they are sent to. Innovations that often have existed for thousands of years on our planet, and make zero sense for them to not already have. I've seen Isekai Protags introduce water pumps and pulley and lever systems into worlds that are late medieval era, when those have existed since BCE on Earth. So either the planets they are going to are beyond stupid, or the Isekai authors are, guess which gets my vote?
Japan literally lock themselves for centuries even after the existence of guns, sooo..... they probably have a twisted view on how Medieval Era in Europe should work.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jun 13, 2018
Messages
619
Isekai authors are not known for their intellect. Which is why every single one introduces the same exact "innovations" to the place they are sent to. Innovations that often have existed for thousands of years on our planet, and make zero sense for them to not already have. I've seen Isekai Protags introduce water pumps and pulley and lever systems into worlds that are late medieval era, when those have existed since BCE on Earth. So either the planets they are going to are beyond stupid, or the Isekai authors are, guess which gets my vote?
In this case, they said they already use rotation crop, not just the intensive one with fertilisers, which is the one FC introduce.
So it should be okay for you and @vick_detri .
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Messages
2,903
man if you set the entertainment that high, no one could even try to outdo it lmao
the other theaters can only kick rocks lolololol

sara is so cute wtf :glee: :glee:

i wonder what the ending page means (it's a rhetorical, i know they fucked up lmao)
 
Aggregator gang
Joined
Mar 17, 2023
Messages
93
Crop rotation isn't the innovation introduced by Pia. It's adding livestock and new crops to produce fertilizer on the "fallow" land. Because you're right, crop rotation isn't some new thing. It's something that already existed in their world, even.

I checked myself because I wasn't sure what the difference between their two plans were. But I think it's because putting livestock on the field is actually bad for the crops (because sheep, etc eat to the roots of grass) and Pia didn't research what plants are ok to be used on fallow land.
Manure needs time to cure and ferment, likely close to a year or even more. Using it as it is only meant harm for the crop. Idk about crops like wheat and stuff, but we grew coffee. There's a year where our neighbor source some fertilizer from a local chicken farm without checking and 10% of their plants die within that year, even with proper fermenting.
We use cow manure for our plants,which is properly fermented. Even then we have to water it constantly to continue fermenting it and preventing pest and mold from growing. It's kinda interesting cuz there's no smell and quite warm, like 60 degrees Celsius.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Dec 20, 2018
Messages
3,926
I'm not convinced by this chapter... Crop rotation already existed in ancient Egypt. It was the number of fields (two, three or even four) and the specific crops grown on each that were refined from the Middle Ages onwards.

The last boom was the introduction of synthetic fertilisers.
..not completely?

Crop rotation used fallow fields into the renaissance, but it's true that beans started getting introduced in the early middle ages (improving field use from 50% to 66%) - but a lot of that development energy got redirected at the demographic revolution called "The Black Death")

But yea, "removal of miasma" and "magical demon fertilizers" are probably greater drivers of change.

..but then again, this is apparently a letter to the Prince, so of course she would pretend to just being better at what the Prince was touting (while also keeping her actual victory methods under wraps so they become harder to replicate / reverse engineer without paying her through the nose for the actual secrets)
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Dec 20, 2018
Messages
3,926
There's a year where our neighbor source some fertilizer from a local chicken farm without checking and 10% of their plants die within that year, even with proper fermenting.
There's also a problem that chickens will often be fed with grains that have been sprayed with pyralids (persistent weed-killing poisons). That means their poop literally contains plant-harming poisons, especially harmful to tubers, beans and flowers.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Mar 26, 2020
Messages
464
I am not sure about that. Mixed farming is a thing, was historically, and nowadays its starting to creep back in as a modern ecologically friendly alternative that can help build soil where intensive farming of monocultures completely drained it.
Examples I have read about talks about improving bacterial composition, increasing the amount of carbon and nitrogen in soil, as well as advantages for no-till farming (which is increasingly being preferred, as it helps preserve the soil bacterial biome).
There are experiments with sheep, cows, and chickens, the latter in a way serves also as a form of pest control, able to devour various insects and even rodents if required.

https://www.csuchico.edu/regenerativeagriculture/ra101-section/integrating-livestock.shtml
First thing first: mixed farming in the past only meant that you raised animals and crops at the same time. Not that they used the same space. If a farm had a coop with chicken but also made wheat, it was mixed farming.

2) Yes, you can put animals on field or fallows. But only for a short time. For example, in medieval time, animals were put on the fallows field maximum a few weeks (heavily dependant on size of field and size of animal pack), the time they eat most of the plants. Doing like that is beneficial. But leaving the animals roam for a few months? That's a bad idea. If you have read your link, it says that you need to often move the animals to avoid overgrazing and over-compaction.

The best example is the chicken. Chicken manure contains a lot of nitrogen, which is good for the soil. But if it keep accumulating, the soil become unbalanced and lose efficiency. In addition, chicken dig a lot to find worms, insect and roots. Leaving chiken a few days on a field is beneficial (removing insects, giving nitrogen, ...) but more than that will start to damage the field. If you want further proof: coop are nearly always barren soil because of that.

Maybe I expressed myself badly: Just placing the animals a short time can be good.
But truly putting them for an extended period on a land destined for crops is a very bad idea.
Before I put my comment in here, I need to state that I am by no means an expert in agriculture nor do I practice any form of agriculture, I'm only repeating what I read on a review article that covers the topic and some of my own opinion. (this is the review article I based my opinion upon: Sekaran, U. et al. (2021) ‘Role of integrated crop-livestock systems in improving agriculture production and addressing food security – a review’, Journal of Agriculture and Food Research, 5, p. 100190. doi:10.1016/j.jafr.2021.100190.)

Most of what I wanted to say has already been stated by @Ovnidemon, in particular the need for proper management and selection of the animals chosen to graze on the fields in the fallow period, animal integration can be a good thing, but you need to choose the specific animals and crops that can vary between climates and soil conditions, as well as proper management of the animals to ensure that the animals do not just stay in one place all the time as well as distribution of the animal manure itself to prevent uneven crop growth. This in itself needs a lot of investment in terms of continuous manpower to manage the fields and animals, as well as the necessary knowledge needed to choose the animal and crop plants.
On another note, monoculture farming (the one most farms do), as the name implies, deals with one type of crop, this can and does lead to higher productivity and efficiency in the short term (in comparison to improper use of mixed farming), as you only need to maintain, process and store one type of crop rather than needing to do so for a variety of crops (that entails various different processes and conditions needed for different crops) that comes with mixed farming.
While mixed farming can lead to better sustainability for farming and thus better economic stability for the farmers themselves, as well as diversification of produce from the farms, but this effect only happens if mixed farming is done properly, and to do mixed farming properly, there is a huge wall of investment needed from the farmers themselves, in terms of manpower and knowledge needed to properly utilize mixed farming.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Nov 20, 2023
Messages
7,073
if this ever gets an anime adaptation, i'd love to see the actual stage play/musical done fully, or at least part of the first five minutes of the ep
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top