The Politics Megathread

[BAwesome2Me]

everybody here is like "oh haha i hope trump wins cus itd be funny" like it wouldnt be the end of democracy in america and the death of 42 million people

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

@BestBoy
Well, as long as you don't have an issue with someone saying "this turned into Shitter very quickly" for a thread that voices the opposite sentiments, then you're good.

@BAwesome2Me
Death of 42 million people? What?

And no, it would not be the end of democracy. It's not like he would declare himself king or anything.

 

[BAwesome2Me]

@Ivegotnolife hmm i wonder why science leans left nowadays. couldnt be because of the anti-science bullshit pushing the public further right, could it?

 

[Richman]

Apparently several sections of Mexico are officially threatening to break off into their own independent state

Never heard of this, I'll have to check it out later, but afaik, none of the States can be fully independent by themselves (I believe the U. S. California State is capable) , imo I would make a new union with the other States (like the Confederacy). Even when, at the time, the relatively powerful region of Yucatan, it didn't manage to survive because of civil War between europeans and indigenous people and had to ask for help to the mexican goverment and annex itself to the republic once again, it lasted 8 years iirc.

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

@BAwesome2Me
Part of the reason science "leans left" is because of the number of universities that encourage and preach leftist principles, as well as the fact that scientific discoveries the left is against receive massive backlash to the point that it's taboo to even discuss them.

 

[BAwesome2Me]

@bigtiddyoneesan the 42 million is the minority population in the US as pulled from the 2019 census, and while not all of their life may be initially at stake, but so long as trump is in office hes gonna want to keep ice around and keep adding funding to the police. those groups are procedurally killing two of the largest minority groups in america. not to mention his handling of coronavirus (or lack thereof). As for the end of democracy, he refuses to say if he'll consent to a peacefull passing of power if he doesnt get elected this time, and they could well continue. he is also against voter's rights for incarcerated people. which means he can throw whoever he wants in prison, stripping them of their right to vote, and his platform will let him get away with it. that is the definition of a dictatorship.

 

[BAwesome2Me]

@bigtiddyoneesan
any "leftist principals" that your college teaches are for image only. the university admissions system is founded on antisemitism and university as a whole takes more money from you, as a student, than it has any right to. i promise you, whatever youre paying to attend you school is too much. they do this because of capitalistic greed.
edit: ok hold on ive just realized that i have no idea what leftist principals you could possibly be referring to. antiracism? gender equality? mindfulness of mental health? please let me know what leftist principals are getting in the way of science.

also i'd like to hear some of the scientific discoveries that the left has backlashed against because ive never heard of that.

 

[BroederTrapist]

@bawesome2me
Why do you say that science leans left? Only in the US?

The way I understand.
True science is a never ending search for provable thruth.
So it doesn't need a political direction that would divert it.

 

[BAwesome2Me]

@BroederTrapist i agree entirely with that statement. and yes i mean only in the US. the issue is that, in the US, the right's primary tactic is to deny science and go with, religion, propaganda, gut feeling, you name it. so when you have an actual scientific study come out, compared to the right, it will always be in favor of the left.

 

[Richman]

Shit, the alliances is all of the Northern states, those are the most important.
Luckily, it is not a separatist movement, yet.

Fucking president, useless piece of shit, you have killed our momentum.

 

[2SpiritCherokeePrincess]

Yesterday I couldn't access Mangadex for some reason. What a mess when I got back.

2 centuries ago African Americans were called a word starting with N & my people were called a word starting with I. So some bigot effectively called me the N-word & claimed that was the "correct" way to refer to my people. I don't like the idea of blocking someone, but now I have. They're pretending to be Asian to get away with saying racist things. They outed themself by the way they attacked me: Call themself Tamerlane>Tamerlane is a famous mogul leader of India>they want you to think they are of South Asian origin>if their ancestry was from India they would also be offended by the misuse of the word "Indian">not only are they not offended, they used that word as a slur>they are not who they say they are.

Of course after that 1st sentence I didn't read the rest of the hate speech. Someone quoted them as saying my ancestors died of disease. The diseases were spread deliberately, though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6cr4MakqFA&feature=emb_logo
https://culturacolectiva.com/history/the-us-killed-bisons-to-exterminate-native-americans Also did you know that most of the people who died in Nazi death camps weren't killed by gas or bullets, but disease? http://auschwitz.org/en/history/camp-hospitals/sicknesses-and-epidemics/

They apparently also claimed this country was based on religious freedom. That's why they called people "witches" to kill them in Massachusetts?

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

@BAwesome2Me

those groups are procedurally killing two of the largest minority groups in america.

It's not as if those groups are unjustly targeted for shootings. Police shootings happen proportionate to crime rates. Sam Harris (who is vehemently against Trump) goes into detail about it in one of his podcasts.

As for the end of democracy, he refuses to say if he'll consent to a peacefull passing of power if he doesnt get elected this time, and they could well continue.

That's largely overblown by the media due to a comment about checking for potential voter fraud in mailed ballots. He will go along with a peaceful transition of power once the results are credibly finalized.

any "leftist principals" that your college teaches are for image only. the university admissions system is founded on antisemitism and university as a whole takes more money from you, as a student, than it has any right to. i promise you, whatever youre paying to attend you school is too much. they do this because of capitalistic greed.

But the leftist principles are still there, and a large portion of the students and faculty wholeheartedly believe in them. I agree with the tuition issue, of course. And what's with the "founded on antisemitism"? It would be helpful if you linked something that explained how anti-Semitic values of the past have majorly affected the way universities currently operate for the worse.

ok hold on ive just realized that i have no idea what leftist principals you could possibly be referring to. antiracism? gender equality? mindfulness of mental health? please let me know what leftist principals are getting in the way of science.

PC culture's prevalence on campuses is nothing new. The problem is that it's become so dominant on so many campuses that people are afraid of going against the grain due to very real ramifications (usually social, but administrative as well.) It stands to reason that science can not be studied objectively when there exists a political bias in scientific institutions. An example of how wild academia has become is the hoax papers written by scholars in order to show just how far people can retort science using modern social and political jargon.

also i'd like to hear some of the scientific discoveries that the left has backlashed against because ive never heard of that.

I'm going to have to refuse on that one. It's not out of an inability to do so, it's simply the fact that I would rather not deal with a situation in which it was brought into the discussion. Hope you understand and we can leave it at that.

 

[Gian]

everybody here is like "oh haha i hope trump wins cus itd be funny" like it wouldnt be the end of democracy in america and the death of 42 million people

You say that like it's a bad thing.

My position is that we should just nuke America and be done with it. No matter who wins, it's still a horrible country with an abhorrent culture, that resist any real positive change, and full of terrible people. I'd be fine with it, if they didn't drag the entire world down with them. So, America (and it's "people") should cease to exist entirely for the good of the world.

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

@2SpiritCherokeePrincess

They're pretending to be Asian to get away with saying racist things. They outed themself by the way they attacked me: Call themself Tamerlane>Tamerlane is a famous mogul leader of India>they want you to think they are of South Asian origin>if their ancestry was from India they would also be offended by the misuse of the word "Indian">not only are they not offended, they used that word as a slur>they are not who they say they are.

Is that honestly your interpretation of his name? Tamerlane has said before that he chose the name partially on a whim as he both found Timur to be interesting to study as well as the fact that having the name and picture of an ancient Turco-Mongol conqueror next to a bunch of weeb names and avatars was funny since it stood out.

Also, blocking someone is effectively cutting off any form of discussion, as well as the potential for future discussions. If you do that in the case of an honest discussion, it's basically admitting that you can't handle opposing viewpoints. Is that what you want?

 

[Richman]

They're pretending to be Asian to get away with saying racist things. They outed themself by the way they attacked me: Call themself Tamerlane>Tamerlane is a famous mogul leader of India>they want you to think they are of South Asian origin>if their ancestry was from India they would also be offended by the misuse of the word "Indian">not only are they not offended, they used that word as a slur>they are not who they say they are

I call myself Richman, there are a lot of interpretations that can be made just from that name, you could say I'm a white, rich american that lives in the most expensive neighborhood and my TP is 100 dollar bills, but the reality is that I'm just the son of middle-class parents that is a student, living in one of the "nice" parts of a relatively "safe" state in a corrupt country. Making assumptions and considering them true without confirmation is a bad idea.

Personally, I think blocking wasn't the best option, I would just stop arguing and move on, because your (plural) beliefs won't change easily. I can't force you to unblock him and you might even say I'm biased since I'm "friends" with him, but I'm just an internet stranger with nothing to do and wanted to put my $0.425 MXN about the topic.

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

We should prob @Tamerlane as well just so he's aware. Sorry pal, I know your dream was to fly on the back of a giant bald eagle alongside an American Indian princess, but it looks like it won't be happening anytime soon.

@Gian
If legit, that's quite the hot take.

 

[BAwesome2Me]

@bigtiddyoneesan
1) here's a chart showing the number of fatal police shootings in the US by race per million of the population: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1123070/police-shootings-rate-ethnicity-us/ if you're actually looking at the graph, you ought to notice that white ranks third despite the fact that it is the largest ethnic group in the US. or if you're talking about crime rate by race, here's a paper proving that the police are more likely to be hypervigilant in black communities than in white communities: https://sociology.columbian.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs1986/f/downloads/Weitzer%20%26%20Brunson%202015%20.pdf if you have more police in an area, you're going to find more crime. if we had equal policing, im sure the crime rates by race would be significantly different.

2) there was never a question about voter fraud until trump wanted there to be. and even then, the only voter fraud that has happened has been in favor of the right: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/12/us/politics/california-gop-drop-boxes.html

3) here's a link describing the antisemitic beginnings of the college admissions system: http://250.browndailyherald.com/how-1920s-anti-semitism-inspired-the-modern-day-admission-system/ and my point was never that it was affecting university operation, it was that the universities "leftist policies" are not put there because they believe in them; they're put there to make the university look good.

4) the only social ramifications are that you'll get beat up for saying something racist, and if you think that that's wrong, you're racist and there's no point in having a discussion anymore. as for the faux papers, i agree that those are bullshit and shouldn't have been published, but 2.5 million papers are published each year (http://blog.cdnsciencepub.com/21st-century-science-overload/) so its no wonder that a few are going to slip past the reviewers, these twenty don't, and can't speak for the entire scientific community. but yes, those should not have been published, thank you for bringing that to my attention.

5) no, i wont leave it at that. you made an unsupported point that is entirely bullshit, i asked you to back it up, and now you're refusing to. i'll drop it when you admit its not true, cus i cant find anything on it either.

 

[BAwesome2Me]

@gian might i ask what country you're from? just so i know what kind of ground you're standing on to make such a claim.

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

@BAwesome2Me

here's a paper proving that the police are more likely to be hypervigilant in black communities than in white communities
if you have more police in an area, you're going to find more crime. if we had equal policing, im sure the crime rates by race would be significantly different.

The hypervigilance is a result of already high crime rates. And the already high crime rates is a result of poverty. High policing is a response to high crime rates, not the other way around. In fact, the majority of African Americans are satisfied with the amount of policing present in their neighborhoods.

A problem with the discussion of police brutality is that the "blame" (or "cause") lies predominantly on four groups: the police departments, the politicians, the civilians, and the media. However, when the media tells everyone that the only ones to blame are the police departments as a result of "systematic oppression", it leads to people being outraged and disproportionately blaming one group or even absolving other groups of blame altogether. I desire police reform as well, but the actual police departments are just a portion of the issue.

there was never a question about voter fraud until trump wanted there to be. and even then, the only voter fraud that has happened has been in favor of the right: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/12/us/politics/california-gop-drop-boxes.html

It became noteworthy for media outlets to "debunk" it when Trump mentioned it. And regardless of whoever is in an election, voter fraud should always be brought up, as it would be negligent to not ask questions about it. And voter fraud undeniably occurs on both sides (from the 2016 election, but still relevant, as loopholes will be taken advantage of by people regardless of their leanings). Even some illegal immigrants vote, and it's evident that not many of them aren't voting for Trump.

here's a link describing the antisemitic beginnings of the college admissions system: http://250.browndailyherald.com/how-1920s-anti-semitism-inspired-the-modern-day-admission-system/ and my point was never that it was affecting university operation, it was that the universities "leftist policies" are not put there because they believe in them; they're put there to make the university look good.

Well, thanks for the link. I don't think most things are worth discrediting solely over their origins, though. And yeah, "woke culture" is enforced because it makes the enforcers look good, but also because people genuinely believe in it. Saving face exists pretty much everywhere, but it can be unclear at times as to who honestly believes what they're saying and who goes along with it for fear of ostracization. The thing is, if everyone who feared speaking out actually spoke out, unreasonable morality and speech policing wouldn't carry nearly as much weight.

the only social ramifications are that you'll get beat up for saying something racist, and if you think that that's wrong, you're racist and there's no point in having a discussion anymore.

I don't like it when people discriminate against others based on the way they were born either, but unchecked physical violence is not the answer and is a dangerous mentality to have. If someone says something offensive to me and I assault them, who is in the wrong, legally and morally?

You could argue that I was in the wrong legally and the person I punched was in the wrong morally, but that also begs the question, "would you want people to be policed for saying mean things?" If they were, then the person who insulted me could be fined/jailed/etc. simply for saying something I deemed as offensive (and what's "offensive" is inherently subjective). Anything done in the name of "combating oppression" is not constructive or morally sound by default.

no, i wont leave it at that. you made an unsupported point that is entirely bullshit, i asked you to back it up, and now you're refusing to. i'll drop it when you admit its not true, cus i cant find anything on it either.

Well, when I mentioned that, I had specific things in mind that I would pretty much never say in most cases. But I guess I can just refer to other examples of scientific findings, new or old, being revised or discredited entirely in order to appease the feelings of others. E.g. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/10/28/liberals-deny-science-too/ Another topic that can be difficult to find objective articles about is gender, as it’s been muddied with opinionated pieces in recent years. Also, no need for the strong language.

 

[BestBoy]

Just to be transparent here, The Heritage Foundation is a conservative think-tank, and the Government Accountability Institute was founded by Steve Bannon.