The Saga of Tanya the Evil - Vol. 25 Ch. 76 - Long-Distance Reconnaissance Mission II

[T-sama]

Didn't I mention that I have a preference of Death Toll? I can see how they are better no doubt, it just baffled me how attacked you felt at me simply pointing out that the existence of two teams translating a manga is nothing to fret about, I've dabbled in scanlation work for my mother language so I know how hard it can be! And I am very glad you are so self aware! Perhaps acting like a edgy manhwa character is not so bad if you are at least self aware about it.

Of course I know that Orio, who sadly has been pulled into this situation, didn't mean for people to go to their patreon, I was just being sassy, given your great reading skills (at least for judging the manga's quality) I suspected you'd have noticed, but perhaps the age card wasn't a card after all? Maybe I could've used tone indicators with you? Like /j or /sarcasm, I don't have twitter but I've heard that they use that there to help people like you.

Well, at this point we are just bantering, I can see that you clearly agree with me, there isn't any problem with two team's scanlating the same work, which is the main point out of all of this and really didn't need to become an argument, one can be worse and the other better, who cares as long as it isn't clearly MTL edited in paint with watermarks out the wazoo, in none of my posts I "simped" for the team, don't lie to yourself.

Your preference is irrelevant when you defend half assed translation meant to get money, they don't even do it in good faith, otherwise they wouldn't try profit from it, if you think the issue is simply two teams working on it, it just shows how you don't understand why people always get angry at snipers.
Also, calling me edgy, really? That's the best you can do? Being an asshole is not the same as being edgy.

@Orio wasn't mocking you just because of the Patreon, but also because the translator released a garbage work, good job missing that point, and I find hilarious you try to contest my reading skill for judging manga quality, because so far the chapter's released by this translator had more negative reception than positive, I'm not the only one judging it as being bad.
Lmao, "people like you" is hilarious when you're the one who acted like me being an asshole is due fo Reddit, says don't use Twitter, yet seemingly knows how things work there, how sus.

And there isn't any problem with people judging and bashing half assed work either, good thing we agree!
Because guess what? When you post something online, anything, you open yourself to criticism, good and bad, so you don't need to white knight for garbage translator, if they didn't want backlash they should have done a better work.
As for who cares? I don't know, perhaps the various people who complained and criticized it before me? A lot of people actually care, surprisingly, wait, not really, because people hate snipers.
The fact that you had to use the "who cares" card really shows you don't have a better defense for garbage work.

 

[Bloodseed]

Well since it's clear that in the future the war will be lost and due to blessings Mary Sue will eventually be the protagonist of this world which will defeat the empire, the current arc although good gets a little underwhelming.. thanks for the translation..

 

[Curly577]

When someone posts slop in an effort to quickly grab cash you don't have 2 translators, you have 1 cash grab and 1 translator and soon enough you will have just the cash grab as people who actually put in their time and effort to make something good are discouraged and move onto something else. If you like slop you could always just look at the raws with a myriad of AI tools that instantly translate them so getting the slop option fast isn't exactly a good thing anyways.

 

[Vannotz]

Your preference is irrelevant when you defend half assed translation meant to get money, they don't even do it in good faith, otherwise they wouldn't try profit from it, if you think the issue is simply two teams working on it, it just shows how you don't understand why people always get angry at snipers.
Also, calling me edgy, really? That's the best you can do? Being an asshole is not the same as being edgy.

@Orio wasn't mocking you just because of the Patreon, but also because the translator released a garbage work, good job missing that point, and I find hilarious you try to contest my reading skill for judging manga quality, because so far the chapter's released by this translator had more negative reception than positive, I'm not the only one judging it as being bad.
Lmao, "people like you" is hilarious when you're the one who acted like me being an asshole is due fo Reddit, says don't use Twitter, yet seemingly knows how things work there, how sus.

And there isn't any problem with people judging and bashing half assed work either, good thing we agree!
Because guess what? When you post something online, anything, you open yourself to criticism, good and bad, so you don't need to white knight for garbage translator, if they didn't want backlash they should have done a better work.
As for who cares? I don't know, perhaps the various people who complained and criticized it before me? A lot of people actually care, surprisingly, wait, not rey, because people hate snipers.
The fact that you had to use the "who cares" card really shows you don't have a better defense for garbage work.

This argument has just gone beyond the original point and I'm starting to feel we won't get anywhere so let's quickly go over somethings:

1. As I said, I personally don't like when scanlators ask for donations, it's not like we put half the work the mangaka did, but it is a fact that it helps! Just look at any piracy circle, crackers, hosters, repackers, all take their time of day to provide this for us when they could be doing something else, perhaps to even earn money! So it's not so incrediblely unreasonable and sinful for them to get a coffee for it, I doubt they are making bank. Every situation is unique and all and I'm sure not all teams deserve this leniency but least not be to hasty.

2. I'm sorry I mislabeled you! I'll be sure to refer to you as an "asshole" instead of "edgy", I meant not to offend!

3. I really don't use Twitter! I can't exactly prove it but I'm not sure why that is so important. The whole reddit thing was just to say that you seemed over emotional over the image, where I just said that two teams aren't bad, even if one is worse, so eager to spark a whole argument over something you don't even disagree with.

4. I wouldn't call it half-assed! I'm sorry I don't personally have your skills in scanlating, I didn't mean to white-knight for them either, I just felt people were being unfair and maybe I just felt sympathy for them since my scans were also very amateurish, of course when we compair a newish team's works to the established Death Toll, it's hard to compete. I hope they are taking your wise criticisms to heart!

5. Yes, who cares! Most people will read it, see that it isn't as good, either be content with it or hope that Death Toll uploads sometime soon, we are just the weird ones for making an argument about it.

 

[T-sama]

This argument has just gone beyond the original point and I'm starting to feel we won't get anywhere so let's quickly go over somethings:

1. As I said, I personally don't like when scanlators ask for donations, it's not like we put half the work the mangaka did, but it is a fact that it helps! Just look at any piracy circle, crackers, hosters, repackers, all take their time of day to provide this for us when they could be doing something else, perhaps to even earn money! So it's not so incrediblely unreasonable and sinful for them to get a coffee for it, I doubt they are making bank. Every situation is unique and all and I'm sure not all teams deserve this leniency but least not be to hasty.

2. I'm sorry I mislabeled you! I'll be sure to refer to you as an "asshole" instead of "edgy", I meant not to offend!

3. I really don't use Twitter! I can't exactly prove it but I'm not sure will that is so important. The whole reddit thing as just to say that you seemed over emotional over the image, where I just said that two teams aren't bad, even if one is worse, so eager to spark a whole argument over something you don't even disagree with.

4. I wouldn't call it half-assed! I'm sorry I don't personally have your skills in scanlating, I didn't mean to white-knight for them either, I just felt people were being unfair and maybe I just felt sympathy for them since my scans were also very amateurish, of course when we compair a newish team's works to the established Death Toll, it's hard to compete. I hope they are taking your wise criticisms to heart!

5. Yes, who cares! Most people will read it, see that it isn't as good, either be content with it or hope that Death Toll uploads sometime soon, we are just the weird ones for making an argument about it.

We'll never get anywhere because we'll never agree
Plus this is the internet

1. It is unreasonable when better groups with infinitely more effort never asked for a single cent, plus the rest of your argument is irrelevant because the manga is uploaded for free on Mangadex

2. Good! Next time you're gonna do what, misgender me too? I'll cancel you on Twitter!

3. Overly emotional on the internet? Yeah because that never happens literally everywhere.
When one team is objectively worse it is bad, especially because they're clearly doing it for attention and money.
It's literally demoralizing to teams who put real effort, it's outright offensive how you completely ignore how people who put real effort feels to instead defend garbage.

4. You not finding it half-assed is a you problem, you don't get to tell others they can't judge it worse than you, especially because people gave a lot of arguments of why it's not unfair.
And being a new group is not a excuse, you're right things shouldn't be a competition, because if they were doing it in good faith they would not only do it without asking for money, but would also be working in one of the literally dozens of thousands of series nobody is working on.
Fact that they choose a popular series already being worked on is to get attention and money.

5. Many people care, that's why there was complaints before, and that's why they're continuing, good job proving my point that you don't have actual arguments.

When someone posts slop in an effort to quickly grab cash you don't have 2 translators, you have 1 cash grab and 1 translator and soon enough you will have just the cash grab as people who actually put in their time and effort to make something good are discouraged and move onto something else. If you like slop you could always just look at the raws with a myriad of AI tools that instantly translate them so getting the slop option fast isn't exactly a good thing anyways.

As @Curly577 just said, this is another reason why garbage groups like this are bad.

 

[Vannotz]

We'll never get anywhere because we'll never agree
Plus this is the internet

1. It is unreasonable when better groups with infinitely more effort never asked for a single cent, plus the rest of your argument is irrelevant because the manga is uploaded for free on Mangadex

2. Good! Next time you're gonna do what, misgender me too? I'll cancel you on Twitter!

3. Overly emotional on the internet? Yeah because that never happens literally everywhere.
When one team is objectively worse it is bad, especially because they're clearly doing it for attention and money.
It's literally demoralizing to teams who put real effort, it's outright offensive how you completely ignore how people who put real effort feels to instead defend garbage.

4. You not finding it half-assed is a you problem, you don't get to tell others they can't judge it worse than you, especially because people gave a lot of arguments of why it's not unfair.
And being a new group is not a excuse, you're right things shouldn't be a competition, because if they were doing it in good faith they would not only do it without asking for money, but would also working in one of the literally dozens of thousands series nobody is working in.
Fact that they choose a popular series is to get attention and money.

5. Many people care, that's why there was complaints before, and that's why they're continuing, good job proving my point that you don't have actual arguments.


As @Curly577 just said, this is another reason why garbage groups like this are bad.

I'm not sure why you say that I don't have actual arguments when this is just a difference is perspective, you seem more thrilled to attack me then to prove your's, which I personally understood perfectly, but alas, it seems that my character is just far too interesting to you, what am I to do?

1. Maybe the other group may feel bad, but that doesn't mean anything, I respect Death Toll's philosophy, it certainly is the better one! And the one which keeps our grey-area community safe, but that's all it is, a philosophy. I personally don't understand how this being hosted for free on MD has anything to do with it, I personally enjoy the work of several game crackers who host their work for free in forums, and distribute their torrents for free too, but work with donations to see which game is more worth to putting their time in.

2. I wouldn't dare after you've been so courteous to me!

3-4. Have you ever been snipped in a manga you work on? I've been, sure I felt bad, but what can I do? Their work was done in paint and I expected for everybody to hate it, but they were just glad they could read the rest of the story. This is a grey area, it depends from person to person, I'm sure they like Tanya and want people to subscribe to their patreon, if it was just the latter, there are several more popular abandoned mangas to work on and it's not like they are pay-walling this.

You know that this manga has an official english translation right? You worry so much about how DT might feel about being snipped by a patreon team, imagine how the official translators and the whole team backing and sponsoring the translation feel about it's potential readers getting their fill illegally for free. Both are wrong, I don't much care about it tho.

5. Love you too.

This is just a problem of perspective, and the argument has become quite repetitive, although my first post, the image, still feels very reasonable in front of all of this, now I'm just waiting for the next chapter!

 

[Scrabbleman]

Scan readers can be the most entitled people to exist on the Internet. Let's make it our responsibility not to be like those in the comments here.

I will enjoy my two cakes and if you have a problem with that, I will spit at you, you sniveling cur.

 

[Orio]

Scan readers can be the most entitled people to exist on the Internet. Let's make it our responsibility not to be like those in the comments here.

I will enjoy my two cakes and if you have a problem with that, I will spit at you, you sniveling cur.

We're not entitled to any quality fan translations, but some people thankfully do it as a passion project anyways.

It's when some opportunistic leeches try to con money out of readers by shitting over a quality fan project with their slop that deserves criticism and derision.

People hate it because this kind of sniping has been known to kill existing fan projects, so damn right we'll tell them to piss off.

At the very least, they could have the decency to target a series that no one's working on instead of leeching off the fandom fostered by another group's hard work.

 

[cryum]

the spy they had to keep tabs on Russia died. Central HQ knows Russia is mobilizing forces in an aggressive way.

MC’s role isn’t to avoid war, it’s to find casus belli followed by guerilla warfare to wipe out the attack before it even begins.

I'm willing to believe that, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it's another misunderstanding where MC comes to this conclusion but HQ still wanted peace.

 

[feha]

Did that other group decide to stop? They suddenly reached 2 chapters behind now, haven't happened before.
ps: Did this group improve (haven't read this ch yet)? Still waiting on past chapter since that one had bad enough TL I noped out, but wonder if I will need to wait on this one too?

I find funny and ironic that you use that pic to compare the two groups.
The first cake is very basic with a single strawberry.
The second is a 2-tier cake, with whipped cream, details and 8 strawberry.
How you could call one marginally worse is baffling.

I actually honestly wonder if you're being sarcastic or if you're exactly the type of moronic idiot who is happy to eat garbage snipers upload.
Because as people pointed out in previous chapters, the sniper translation is bad and full typos, with overall lower quality scan and editing.
They're not marginally worse, they're a lot worse.

Also, actual normal people have standards, when they're receiving a quality service or product they will  not be happy that it got changed to a objectively worse quality version, if you are happy with it that just means you have low standards like a cheap whore.
You like trash? Good for you, but don't expect others to lower themselves to your level, wallow in the filthy like a hobo by yourself.

Regarding cakes, I would argue one of those is marginally worse than the other (assuming neither cake is bad). And I don't know which is which. Size and tiers have nothing to do with taste, and the issue with cakes is that they hide which kind of cake they are beneath an opaque exoskeleton, so it is impossible to tell from appearance.

I would argue the relative quality between translations doesn't matter. Instead there's some minimum threshold a translation has to exceed to be worth reading at all (legible translation). And then there are a couple other discrete threshold beyond that, where if there are two translations fighting you either pick the fastest one if they are within the same threshold-range, or you pick the better one if they are on different side of any of those thresholds. Unless the worse one is way ahead that it's still worth it, or the better one has moral reasons to not wait for it.
So marginally worse - or even much worse - doesn't matter. So long as they remain within same Range, it's still a mostly equivalent reading experience.
The thresholds can even change where they are or if they exist at all, from manga to manga.

In this case I would argue the 2 tl's are separated by a threshold (I often find the faster groups tl to read awkwardly enough I have harder time understanding what's going on. Which matters a lot of a military-focused story like this one ).

 

[sevenpointsix]

I cant believe idiots pay for early access to this poor quality trash. if you are going to shill your patron at least do a decent job.

 

[T-sama]

Did that other group decide to stop? They suddenly reached 2 chapters behind now, haven't happened before.
ps: Did this group improve (haven't read this ch yet)? Still waiting on past chapter since that one had bad enough TL I noped out, but wonder if I will need to wait on this one too?

Regarding cakes, I would argue one of those is marginally worse than the other (assuming neither cake is bad). And I don't know which is which. Size and tiers have nothing to do with taste, and the issue with cakes is that they hide which kind of cake they are beneath an opaque exoskeleton, so it is impossible to tell from appearance.

I would argue the relative quality between translations doesn't matter. Instead there's some minimum threshold a translation has to exceed to be worth reading at all (legible translation). And then there are a couple other discrete threshold beyond that, where if there are two translations fighting you either pick the fastest one if they are within the same threshold-range, or you pick the better one if they are on different side of any of those thresholds. Unless the worse one is way ahead that it's still worth it, or the better one has moral reasons to not wait for it.
So marginally worse - or even much worse - doesn't matter. So long as they remain within same Range, it's still a mostly equivalent reading experience.
The thresholds can even change where they are or if they exist at all, from manga to manga.

In this case I would argue the 2 tl's are separated by a threshold (I often find the faster groups tl to read awkwardly enough I have harder time understanding what's going on. Which matters a lot of a military-focused story like this one ).

I'm pretty sure Death Toll Scans is still working on it, it's just that the other group rushes a subpar work to grab money.
As for improving, to me it still same subpar shit.

As for the cake, cmon, the image isn't that complex, you know exactly which one is meant to be better.

As for quality between groups, the issue is not just that, but that it's typical shitty sniper going for popular series to get attention, they could easily work in one of the thousands series that were dropped because a group died or got too busy with real life, but instead they chose this one because they want money from morons who don't care about quality.

As for threshold, this group is still shit and should just drop it, that won't change going by how they're rushing new chapters.

 

[Ironfort]

I'm pretty sure Death Toll Scans is still working on it, it's just that the other group rushes a subpar work to grab money.
As for improving, to me it still same subpar shit.

As for the cake, cmon, the image isn't that complex, you know exactly which one is meant to be better.

As for quality between groups, the issue is not just that, but that it's typical shitty sniper going for popular series to get attention, they could easily work in one of the thousands series that were dropped because a group died or got too busy with real life, but instead they chose this one because they want money from morons who don't care about quality.

As for threshold, this group is still shit and should just drop it, that won't change going by how they're rushing new chapters.

Yep, Death Toll is still working on it, scripts for YS take time like always.

Scan readers can be the most entitled people to exist on the Internet. Let's make it our responsibility not to be like those in the comments here.

I will enjoy my two cakes and if you have a problem with that, I will spit at you, you sniveling cur.

You guys are heavily misrepresenting the analogy here. The situation here isn't about the cakes, it's about the baker's.

A baker is baking cakes for a party, he takes his time baking them and delivers good cakes for the party-goers to eat. But then another baker comes in. This baker makes a fast cake of lower quality, they didn't put much work on it but because of that they could bake it really fast and put it up on the serving table faster than the previous baker. The other baker still takes his time baking the cake, he carefully places the toppings and makes the decoration look their best.

But when the second baker brings his cake to the table, it now isn't eaten as much as the cake by the previous baker, as the party goers are already full of the fast baker's cake. Now, repeat this a few times and the Baker might be discouraged by not having his cake eaten, and he will probably do one of two things. He either will also start rushing his cakes, so now instead of one good cake and one mediocre one, the people get 2 mediocre cakes; or he stops baking, leaving the party to bake somewhere else.

That's why snipers are problematic, it discourages the groups to keep working on a series, and now instead of 2 cakes of differing qualities, you get 1 shitty cake. So keep on eating if you want.

 

[Firemorfox]

I'm willing to believe that, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it's another misunderstanding where MC comes to this conclusion but HQ still wanted peace.

Normally I'd agree (that HQ wants to avoid a war on 2 fronts)

But also remember that everybody thinks that Tanya is a warhawk who loves to fight and stuff (even if she's not).

 

[lenovoaxioo]

Prussian is not in any way related to russian federation. . ☕

 

[eviljackspicer]

The 2 cake meme is still hilarious.
Seriously people, you act as if somehow the sanctity of the first iteration of this chapter being done badly somehow ruins it.

I get it, it's done rather hastily. But I can still get the gist of what is going on. I can still value the release of this chapter by the other group in the future. You guys make it look like this chapter is nothing more then sloppy seconds after this first poor attempt at it. And you had to pull apart a f**king 2 cake meme to do it, you humorless hacks.

 

[equationx]

@aiMute
I personally wouldn't call it that bad, I once tried scanlating an old yankii manga to my mother tongue by myself, and did some random translating/redrawing works for a few groups and their work seems at least better than mine! I'm not one to judge the work of someone who's better than me. Of course there are complains to be had, and as my great friend @T-sama pointed out, maybe calling it "marginally worse" oversold the work a bit, but when I am already glad that first-timers work on a manga I like and gradually get better, I find it hard to bash on this team's work more than the necessary.

i know you probably don't want to deal with this anymore, and i don't really like fanning the flame more, but i got to explain some of the context as well with this title scanlation issue/drama or whatever people want to call it

their first chapter to snipe is pretty bad, but even then, people are still quite nice and like "why you guys do this? the previous group are still active", and this group explicity said they didn't know this series are still active and it wasn't their intention to snipe, but then they did it again, and again, and again until this chapter and it got people pretty pissed off on top of the translation quality considering that the other group is way better

on top of those, this group literally ask people to join their patreon and locking chapters behind their patreon (voluntarily of course)
everyone been telling them since the first chapter they sniped that it's better to snipe title that got dropped by other group, but nope, gotta snipe popular title that people want to read the most because you know, patreon money since newer chapters are locked behind their patreon

 

[Scrabbleman]

You guys are heavily misrepresenting the analogy here. The situation here isn't about the cakes, it's about the baker's.

A baker is baking cakes for a party, he takes his time baking them and delivers good cakes for the party-goers to eat. But then another baker comes in. This baker makes a fast cake of lower quality, they didn't put much work on it but because of that they could bake it really fast and put it up on the serving table faster than the previous baker. The other baker still takes his time baking the cake, he carefully places the toppings and makes the decoration look their best.

But when the second baker brings his cake to the table, it now isn't eaten as much as the cake by the previous baker, as the party goers are already full of the fast baker's cake. Now, repeat this a few times and the Baker might be discouraged by not having his cake eaten, and he will probably do one of two things. He either will also start rushing his cakes, so now instead of one good cake and one mediocre one, the people get 2 mediocre cakes; or he stops baking, leaving the party to bake somewhere else.

That's why snipers are problematic, it discourages the groups to keep working on a series, and now instead of 2 cakes of differing qualities, you get 1 shitty cake. So keep on eating if you want.

See, the problem is that everyone's making it a competition.

Don't. That will kill you. Being dependent on popularity will kill you, if not physical then emotional and mental. That's not a joke, I've seen it happen.

This is why scanlation should always be a self-motivated work. No money, no contest for views, just doing it for the sake of doing it. The moment some kind of measurement system gets involved, it immediately becomes a race of who gets the bigger number. And the only way to win, to truly win, is to not race at all.

 

[Stadenwick]

I find funny and ironic that you use that pic to compare the two groups.
The first cake is very basic with a single strawberry.
The second is a 2-tier cake, with whipped cream, details and 8 strawberry.
How you could call one marginally worse is baffling.

I actually honestly wonder if you're being sarcastic or if you're exactly the type of moronic idiot who is happy to eat garbage snipers upload.
Because as people pointed out in previous chapters, the sniper translation is bad and full typos, with overall lower quality scan and editing.
They're not marginally worse, they're a lot worse.

Also, actual normal people have standards, when they're receiving a quality service or product they will  not be happy that it got changed to a objectively worse quality version, if you are happy with it that just means you have low standards like a cheap whore.
You like trash? Good for you, but don't expect others to lower themselves to your level, wallow in the filthy like a hobo by yourself.

Wah wah wah my scanner team would only work if they got sniped and I need to grind on their dick to save their reputation.

 

[babisbab]

There seems to be a big misunderstanding. They are not simply a new team bad at translating, they are a Spanish translating team that's been active for a while currently shoveling their Spanish translation through Google Translate to English to exploit the gap between Death Toll's translation and the latest chapter they translated.