Trigger warnings

[axelTHEGREAT]

Lol isn't a feeling.

LMAO.

 

[sterven]

@theilikepie
That was sarcasm? Well excuse me for not being able to spot the difference after all it is so very easy to spot the tone of ones writing. Also I never said the other person called you out for attacking someone please don't put words in my mouth. I stated that your comment was an attack on an individual, and that you were called out on it because it was not on topic. Also the main reason as to why I called you a hypocrite is due to your two original post. You tell someone to ignore a post if they don't like it and to stop whining, when in fact your doing the exact same. Your posting a reply to a comment you didn't like and are whining about it. So does that make you a hypocrite? yes. Then your telling the first person who called you out for not staying on topic with this

You're the one deraling by offering nothing important to the topic and just telling me to shut up. Real important. And now the thread is really getting derailed

Notice how you included "and telling me to shut up" isn't that exactly what you were doing in your last post? Does that make you a hypocrite? YES. I've never once told you that you've broken the rules, i've only ever told you that you were going off topic/being a hypocrite/ and that your first comment was simply an attack. lol stands for laugh out loud laughing is the by product of joy which in turn is an emotion which categorizes it as a feeling.

 

[Xzayer]

Just stating this, but I feel that this overall conversation has a chance to go overboard. So let’s just be careful.

Granted tags are needed for certain series, but I’m in agreement with some of the previous statements that certain stories may contain one-off elements/events that don’t warrant a tag. Overall I’m of the belief that a tag should quantify a considerable event that takes precedence, and frames the narrative.

Spoiler

I.E. tragedy due to MC backstory or a certain individual that has assisted and helped develop the plot. In comparison to grunt/soldier 32

 

[sterven]

If it comes close to that i'll stop responding. Right now i'm simply having a discussion with him if it seems were gonna go over board or a mod tells us to stop i will.

 

[BestBoy]

I think an argument could be made for triggers that come out of nowhere in a series. In Anjou-san, a light-hearted romcom, there's a whole chapter about one of the character's cat dying. Some people might not take pet death seriously, but I can imagine this would be pretty harmful to someone who just had a pet die.

I dunno. I'm much more liberal when it comes to TWs since their inclusion rarely harms anyone. As for potential spoilers, couldn't y'all just do what you did with the description section and add a spoiler button?

 

[Zephyrus]

Locked until I have a chance to look over everything and see if my and Tea's warnings were disregarded.

 

[Zephyrus]

I can't believe that after not one, but *two* staff members made very clear and obvious reminders about off-topic posting, several posters decided to completely disregard said reminders.

@theilikepie
Your very first post in this thread was a low effort insult post and then you made little to no effort to shape up after you were told about staying on topic.

Enjoy your 2 day comment ban.

@sterven
While I appreciate the sentiment behind your posts, you merely exacerbated the issue. When we ask people to stay on topic, we mean it. You have no prior history of issues so I'll let you off with a warning. Please consider posting more carefully in the future.

@axelTHEGREAT
Suggestion threads are *NOT* the place to shitpost, no matter how light-hearted it may be. You have no prior history of issues so I'll let you off with a warning. Please consider posting more carefully in the future.

Thread unlocked for further discussion. Please tread carefully.

 

[sterven]

@Zephyrus
Roger

After going back and reading through the thread I still feel that trigger warnings for a series or per chapter is a lousy idea, I could get behind the idea of implementing more 'umbrella' type tags.

 

[Vofuro]

First off, thanks for the mods to keep this thread in line. I certainly didn't expect this thread to turn... let's say emotional.
It started off as an idea that I wanted to see whether people would even want, so obviously it wasn't as precisely suggested as it could have been. But apparently, expanding on the themes set is a possibility that people will consider, though I'm sad to see that the chapter warning will not be implemented. To be fair though, that happens quite rarely.
(And yes, I always do write in the comment section whenever I see possible unexpected triggers, but who reads the comment section BEFORE the chapter?)

What I want to point out, is the following: Expanding on the themes doesn't have to be that detailed. Broad terms like the ones we have are enough; people will ask for the details if they need them, and people in general here are nice. I'm not asking for, like, twenty or more new tags implemented. Seriously guys. That should have been obvious.

New tag suggestions, open for suggestion:
"domestic violence" or possibly "domestic abuse" in general. It's quite common really.
"psychological abuse" featuring manipulating a person's head. I consider Color Recipe a qualified example for this.
"child abuse" because with kids, violence, but especially sexual violence is usually only described but never shown. Notable example is Switch Witch https://mangadex.org/title/31554/switch-witch, the latest chapters.
"substance abuse" featuring addicts and their misuse, everything from alcohol to drugs, where it's prevalent and/or from the POV of the addict. Doesn't happen that often, and usually not in the stuff I read, but I know it can be a trigger for a lot of people struggling with addiction if they read from that POV.

Sexual Violence is covered, and I do consider things like suicide to be covered by the tragedy tag. It's also a massive spoiler for anyone reading, so I really wouldn't make suicide a theme.
A lot of other things you can tell via the summary of the manga, such as mental illnesses or other trauma.

 

[Teasday]

I would probably lean more towards Physical Abuse rather than Domestic to make it not specifically about a domestic or family setting. I don't think it adds any value to it.
Psychological Abuse seems fine to me as is. Would possibly even work as an alternative to the H tags typically called something like Mindbreak.
Not entirely sure Child Abuse specifically is warranted, since I don't see a situation where it wouldn't be accompanied by either the Physical or Psychological Abuse tag (or more likely both) even if it isn't shown. Dunno, could go either way I suppose.
Substance Abuse isn't a very common theme in any regular manga that I can think of, but in H titles drugging someone certainly happens often enough that I think it could be used for tagging that.

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

Ooh the thread is back open. Anyway...

Shouldn't psychological abuse be counted in the psychological tag? Or am I confusing mind games for gaslighting?

Yeah child and domestic abuse should be covered by psychological and physical abuse so that tag isn't really necessary imo.

Substance abuse might be a can of worms of its own. In H it's probably a regular but in regular manga? We'll probably draw the line between the plot point vs theme method like physical abuse. In that case, are there really enough mangas themed around substance abuse to warrant the tag? (Then again "gyaru" does exist)

 

[PantsMan]

What a dumb idea. Regardless of all the can of worms even the concept of "trigger tags" opens, I am 100% against the kind of tag bloat this would undoubtedly result in. I don't want people arguing endlessly whether the "Child abuse"/"Psychological abuse" tag should be applied to a shonen series because one of the characters has a sappy backstory. Suppose a character is a junkie, but drugs aren't the story's focus: what the hell would the value of a "Substance Abuse" tag be, then? What about fantasy not!drugs? Compare these with the "Sexual Violence" tag: it's still a bit flimsy in my opinion, but at least it serves a purpose at suggesting the series' tone or key elements, which I feel should be the purpose of all tags.

Trigger tags are too specific and too subject to debate (as this thread proves) to be of any real use other than to satisfy a very small group of people, at the cost of endless debates and an increasingly broken tag system. The only validity this suggestion would have is in hentai titles, which are so short and cater to such individually specific tastes that an in-depth tag system is welcome.

 

[Yautja]

There's several JRE clips that address the physical side of this mentality. Hiding from shit that "triggers" you is counter productive, it's the exact opposite of what you should be doing. This is also largely covered by existing tags. It's an unnecessary and superfluous change and a concept that has proven to have either no affects or negative affects. It's an annoying ideological ego stroke that relies almost entirely on the subjectivity of a select view oversensitive individuals.

 

[Teasday]

@PantsMan We already have "trigger tags". This is about whether there should be more.

@Yautja Opinions about whether people should "hide from their triggers" are completely irrelevant to this discussion, as already mentioned. We're not here to argue about whether people should be able to exclude manga tagged as Yaoi or Isekai or Physical Abuse, or what kind of an effect that may ultimately have on their psyche, we give people the option to do so regardless. You're free to make this argument of course, but please do it somewhere else because this is Suggestions.

_{@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN posted:}

Or am I confusing mind games for gaslighting?

This is pretty much the context I was imagining yeah

 

[Vofuro]

There's several JRE clips that address the physical side of this mentality. Hiding from shit that "triggers" you is counter productive, it's the exact opposite of what you should be doing. This is also largely covered by existing tags. It's an unnecessary and superfluous change and a concept that has proven to have either no affects or negative affects. It's an annoying ideological ego stroke that relies almost entirely on the subjectivity of a select view oversensitive individuals.

@yautja

of course you may have a point. One shouldn't run away from his or her issues, but face them.
The point however is, that they should have the right to decide for themselves when and how they face it. That's the point of the tags and that's why I'd love to have them.

Also, I just realised that depending on the scene the word "trigger" changes meaning. I've seen it in book reviews used quite neutrally as a warning for people sensitive to the issues, but apparently people use it to say that something small made them rant/really angry, even if it's not entirely rational.
Talk about poor word choice, eh, me?

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

@PantsMan

tag should be applied to a shonen series because one of the characters has a sappy backstory. Suppose a character is a junkie, but drugs aren't the story's focus: what the hell would the value of a "Substance Abuse" tag be, then?

We addressed this problem already with theme vs plot point method. The dog dying does not deserve a tag, but a story about dogs dying does need a tag.

@Yautja I mean, if anything, at least these tags would work as a warning. Some people don't like reading tragedy as a personal taste rather than PTSD. Same goes for gore, sexual violence, physical, and psychological abuse.

 

[Yautja]

@Teasday
I'm not sure I agree since it discredits the merit of the idea. Not unlike how you guys respond to the upvote and downvote request. You guys don't implement those because they're unhealthy and do not help conversation, something you guys express when rejecting the idea. The same applies to trigger warnings. If the idea behind implementing "trigger tags" is to avoid things that trigger people, to prevent negative reactions, and help people, and that mentality has been formally proven to be counter productive, by real studies - one of which I linked, why would you implement it? We should not implement trigger tags because trigger tags have been proven to be counter productive or unhelpful. And as mentioned, they're covered by existing tags, and Baka Updates already does this. I think that is very much on topic.
The tl;dr being the suggestion should be rejected because the idea has been proven to be unhelpful and the tags already cover the request, as does Baka Updates which is already linked.

@Vofuro
I have more than a point, that study I linked proves that such an "option" is counter productive. And as said, those tags already exist. You're just asking for overly specific tags, a task that is already done by Baka Updates.
Here's the summary of that study.

Trigger warnings alert trauma survivors about potentially disturbing forthcoming content. However, most empirical studies on trigger warnings indicate that they are either functionally inert or cause small adverse side effects. These evaluations have been limited to either trauma-naïve participants or mixed samples. Accordingly, we tested whether trigger warnings would be psychologically beneficial in the most relevant population: survivors of serious trauma.

@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN
The existing tags already cover most of that, they can drop it, or check Baka Updates.

 

[PantsMan]

@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN
That's even more dumb, and needlessly specific. You'd need a lot more tags to cover different subjects, for little to no gain. This whole matter just comes to me as needless bloating that can be covered by most of the regular tags and a little common sense as to the tone of the series, not to mention annoyingly impractical to actually enforce.

 

[BestBoy]

That study has some weak points that make me question its validity. Namely, the experiment begins by putting the subjects in a state of anxiety. It then compounds that state of anxiety unintentionally by providing generic trigger warnings that don't specify any content so the subject is left in a state of uncertainty regarding whether this next passage will have content that triggers their trauma.

Anyway back on topic. @Teasday Are y'all going to move some of the genre tags, like Psychological and Tragedy, up to the Content section? That way they're more visible.

I think Physical Abuse would be a good one to add, as well, since there isn't really anything that currently covers it. For instance, Mina-sama no Omocha Desu features a lot of physical violence, but comparatively not a lot of sexual violence (unless you count shaving and forcing someone to use a diaper) as there is only one instance (a few chapters) of a character getting repeatedly kicked in the genitals. Since we only have Sexual Violence as a content tag that's all we can use, but it doesn't really prepare readers for characters getting their finger nails ripped off.

 

[Vofuro]

I think Physical Abuse would be a good one to add, as well, since there isn't really anything that currently covers it. For instance, Mina-sama no Omocha Desu features a lot of physical violence, but comparatively not a lot of sexual violence (unless you count shaving and forcing someone to use a diaper) as there is only one instance (a few chapters) of a character getting repeatedly kicked in the genitals. Since we only have Sexual Violence as a content tag that's all we can use, but it doesn't really prepare readers for characters getting their finger nails ripped off.

@BestBoy

I just vividly imagined your last sentence. I could have lived without that (Seriously. Ew.)
I actually meant Psychological, not Phyical Abuse, but both could be valid tags, as gore usually involves well.. more ripped open stomaches and such, it's more blood and nasty. Phyical Abuse could be that without the blood - like the kicking genitals bit.
Is there a tag for Mindbreak? Because it sure sounds similar to Psychological Abuse, although Mindbreak seems like the hardcore version of Psychological Abuse, meant solely to break the victim, instead of just heavily abusing and manipulating them.

@Yautja I'm not giving you an answer, I fear, because the devs rightfully said multiple times that this is not the place. I don't want this thread blocked. AGAIN. I'm not ignoring you, per se.
Though to be fair, my hopes of this thread staying unblocked is not that high in the first place.