TRPG Player ga Isekai de Saikyou Build wo Mezasu - Ch. 7 - Proposal

[Volcanron]

In all honesty this chapter was fine, but it bothers me so much how quickly we got to this point. Of course I don't expect it to be as in-depth as the LN, but over 300 pages only translates to… 7 chapters? It just seems hasty, with all the excellent worldbuilding and foreshadowing just about stripped.

For instance, the coin in the earlier on was weird for most, right? Well that's set up through the whole volume from the village kids playing hero to find coins that fae would leave in trees, yet they never found one. And with Margit, there's a whole section of Erich spending points just to outsmart her and you see natural progression in their relationship.

Again, expecting a one-to-one adaptation in manga form would be ludicrous (it'd end at like chapter 30 at that rate), but damn I wish it delved at least a bit deeper. And yeah obligatory LN recommendation here, one of my favorite series.

 

[spawnknight]

Why are the raws still at chapter 7? How long does it takes for a new one to come out?

 

[Guroga]

I hope we keep the spider loli, especially seeing as she is confirmed to stay a loli even when she grows up, so i pray that she is the main girl and even welcome spoilers confirming or denying that.

She remains but unless they adapt some of the if stories she'll appear muuuuuuuch later.

Spoiler

Like from vol 3 to end of vol 6 of ln.

LN vol 7 is finally the promised adventure with her.

Which comes out later this year which im looking forward to .

 

[Nimeri]

Just as an info for the info on the credit page about what humans are called in this manga - "Mensch" is just the german word for "human".
Also if you translate the elf lady's name into german literally you'd get "Agrippina you steel or from Ubiorum" but since it doesn't make any sense I'd assume it's not supposed to be read in german/ just supposed to sound german.

Oh and if the name of the place Erich lives in is "Köningsstuhl" or "Koenigsstuhl" instead of "Konigsstuhl" it would mean "king's chair".

 

[Avarice]

Just as an info for the info on the credit page about what humans are called in this manga - "Mensch" is just the german word for "human".
Also if you translate the elf lady's name into german literally you'd get "Agrippina you steel or from Ubiorum" but since it doesn't make any sense I'd assume it's not supposed to be read in german/ just supposed to sound german.

Oh and if the name of the place Erich lives in is "Köningsstuhl" or "Koenigsstuhl" instead of "Konigsstuhl" it would mean "king's chair".

Agrippina isn’t quite german, and is probably named at least in part for https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germaine_de_Staël

 

[Oeconomist]

The plural of “magus” is “magi”; “magus” is masculine; the feminine is “maga”; the plural of “maga” is “magae”.

 

[stavekoff]

I hope we keep the spider loli, especially seeing as she is confirmed to stay a loli even when she grows up, so i pray that she is the main girl and even welcome spoilers confirming or denying that.

Not yet in the ln. she hasn't been around for a long ass time but that doesn't rule her out

 

[jhs_reika]

You most definitely can.

If her offer is that he will starve to death in a week, then he kind of has to counter-offer, and can elevate the fact that her idea is not at all sustainable to get further concessions.

And even if the offer was sustainable, you can always appeal to peoples innate desire to compromise when reasonable, or if not that, their ability to see improved long-term gains. So allowing him to sit in on lessons is hardly far-fetched. Same for a minor amount of pocket money to save (if the job doesn't build for the future, it is only a slow road into death and despair - the employer will find that their employees are far from motivated when they can't see any future. And any minorly intelligent person will easily acquiesce to raising their cost by a couple percent to up production by far).

The offer was already pretty generous though? The sister was not killed nor taken as research subject. The sister will be guarded by her status as an apprentice and able to learn controlling her magic from a high level magus. And from MC's inner monologue being a steward of a high class magus with such high salary is ludicrous for a kid like MC.

The problem is the long ears can become far less generous if you push more. She could take the "dangerous" changeling away and the law and the public would support her. Or she can just simply leave, and the next person who comes may not be nearly as nice.

 

[CraniumAmbiguity]

To be honest the "pay for your sister's tuition with your earnings" is a red flag for me. He doesn't know the expected pay, or what fees/costs of living he will be expected to shoulder on his own. He could easily be setting himself up as a debt slave. Especially if the employer deducts mistakes out of his pay. One damaged expensive object and thats it.

 

[BlackAeronaut]

To be honest the "pay for your sister's tuition with your earnings" is a red flag for me. He doesn't know the expected pay, or what fees/costs of living he will be expected to shoulder on his own. He could easily be setting himself up as a debt slave. Especially if the employer deducts mistakes out of his pay. One damaged expensive object and thats it.

Nah, they're pretty clear about it. His stewardship under her = his sister's tuition.

Of course, there is nothing said about any allowance for either him or his sister. If Agrippina is that kind of person, then that's gonna be the "Gotcha" - that he needs to pay for not only his own expenses, but that of his sister's, too.

 

[Avarice]

To the people noting that this is not a great deal: it isn’t, but there is absolutely no chance that he can get a better one, especially since SHE’S involved.

For a little reference, and something that’s remarked on in the novel — her having the ‘du’ in her name means that she’s so high up in the social ladder she can actually touch Mt. Tai; and that’s before we add on the fact her combat prowess is horrific.

 

[eng1]

The fact that she would bother going out of her way to offer this deal to him is she has some interest in his uniqueness?

To be honest the "pay for your sister's tuition with your earnings" is a red flag for me. He doesn't know the expected pay, or what fees/costs of living he will be expected to shoulder on his own. He could easily be setting himself up as a debt slave. Especially if the employer deducts mistakes out of his pay. One damaged expensive object and thats it.

It is also a huge oppertunity, if his sister comes her apprentice it means he can learn things as well, like right now he is sittingbon points cause he doesnt know which direction to take. As for living costs, usually stewert would live with who he works for. Cause you want your stewart always available. As for food, if you cook too much you would usually get to eat the leftovers. What he has chance of gaining far outweighs the risk, even more so since he really cant refuse

 

[imhungryn0w]

Calls herself a Magus, goes by the name Agrippa and part of the School of Daybreak.

Someone got waaaaay into occultism as a teen ey?

Agrippa's books on Occult philosophy are pretty famous in those circles and School of Daybreak is a nice tip towards the Hermatic Order of the Golden Dawn

Did I miss anything?

 

[feha]

The offer was already pretty generous though? The sister was not killed nor taken as research subject. The sister will be guarded by her status as an apprentice and able to learn controlling her magic from a high level magus. And from MC's inner monologue being a steward of a high class magus with such high salary is ludicrous for a kid like MC.

The problem is the long ears can become far less generous if you push more. She could take the "dangerous" changeling away and the law and the public would support her. Or she can just simply leave, and the next person who comes may not be nearly as nice.

I fail to see how not getting any lodging, money for lodging, food, money for food, clothing, or money for clothing, can be considered livable, much less generous.
In fact, even if he got all that so it's a survivable job, the moment he doesn't get any money to save for pension, I still consider it far from generous.
And then we need to add in all various things such as the need for health care/medicine etc., and we truly see how lacking her offer was.

Besides, if she actually want to employ him for real, she obviously would want him to last longer than a week. She would not want him to die the moment he scratches himself on a rusty nail. She would want him to do his best in his job instead of subtly cause her trouble from a festering resentment. Hell, since she is hiring him because he's "interesting", she would want him to take initiative outside the scope of his job, most likely!

Like I said before, since he is an mc all that will be waved away and he will be provided all of it anyway (maybe not allowance, but if so he'll instead get time off to be an adventurer or something). But had he not been an mc, that deal was clearly setup to either turn him into a debt slave, or outright kill him.

 

[feha]

Calls herself a Magus, goes by the name Agrippa and part of the School of Daybreak.

Someone got waaaaay into occultism as a teen ey?

Agrippa's books on Occult philosophy are pretty famous in those circles and School of Daybreak is a nice tip towards the Hermatic Order of the Golden Dawn

Did I miss anything?

You need to provide more. That stuff was interesting to find out, but I have no context regarding any of it, not even where to find said context (aside from a blind google and looking at all results to see if they are related to the subject and that it's a summarization it rather than being something focused

 

[jhs_reika]

I fail to see how not getting any lodging, money for lodging, food, money for food, clothing, or money for clothing, can be considered livable, much less generous.
In fact, even if he got all that so it's a survivable job, the moment he doesn't get any money to save for pension, I still consider it far from generous.
And then we need to add in all various things such as the need for health care/medicine etc., and we truly see how lacking her offer was.

Besides, if she actually want to employ him for real, she obviously would want him to last longer than a week. She would not want him to die the moment he scratches himself on a rusty nail. She would want him to do his best in his job instead of subtly cause her trouble from a festering resentment. Hell, since she is hiring him because he's "interesting", she would want him to take initiative outside the scope of his job, most likely!

Like I said before, since he is an mc all that will be waved away and he will be provided all of it anyway (maybe not allowance, but if so he'll instead get time off to be an adventurer or something). But had he not been an mc, that deal was clearly setup to either turn him into a debt slave, or outright kill him.

Bro, as a high class magus, wouldn't it be weird if she allowed her apprentice to have no lodging or food? Clothing is also guaranteed because of similar reason. For health care / medicine, of course it'd also be more or less taken care of. You said it yourself in your second paragraph the reasons why the magus would also extend her hospitality to her steward, however limited it might be. Otherwise no one would thought that a steward job is good, moreso becoming one.

About getting allowance or time to go adventuring as he'd like, aren't you just being obnoxious now? You should understand his current situation. His situation right now is: his sister is in immediate danger of getting killed or forcefully being taken away. Not only by this magus, but also by a lot of others who would inevitably also know of his sister's identity as a changeling. Allowance? Leisure adventuring time? It's a luxury he can no longer ever hope to afford.

Remember long ears' first response when she saw the sister. She saw her as a subject. She could kill the sister right at that moment. But then, because she thought that the MC is interesting, not only that she healed MC, she talked with him and discussed his options. Rather than just being totally helpless and got separated from his sister (may even permanently if she's dead), the magus want to take the sister not as a research subject but as an apprentice. As an apprentice the sister's life get more guaranteed and she would get stronger. She lowered her price to a lower class apprenticeship, which would normally be much more expensive because she is a high class magus. Then knowing that the MC is even poorer that he thought, she gave him an option / reason for the sister to still be able to be her apprentice and also for the MC to not get separated from her.

Now, the sister and MC will survive, sister will get stronger and live longer, MC will not get separated from her, and MC can learn the tidbits of magus' workshop and have a chance to get employed at a high class place in the future. Isn't that generous?

 

[feha]

Bro, as a high class magus, wouldn't it be weird if she allowed her apprentice to have no lodging or food? Clothing is also guaranteed because of similar reason. For health care / medicine, of course it'd also be more or less taken care of. You said it yourself in your second paragraph the reasons why the magus would also extend her hospitality to her steward, however limited it might be. Otherwise no one would thought that a steward job is good, moreso becoming one.

So you are just assuming he will get things outside of the contractual obligations.

About getting allowance or time to go adventuring as he'd like, aren't you just being obnoxious now? You should understand his current situation. His situation right now is: his sister is in immediate danger of getting killed or forcefully being taken away. Not only by this magus, but also by a lot of others who would inevitably also know of his sister's identity as a changeling. Allowance? Leisure adventuring time? It's a luxury he can no longer ever hope to afford.

That argument would only work if his stint as a steward is a short one (and even then having absolutely 0 money is a possible lethal predicament as it might take time to find a new job - particularly if water costs money). But from the sounds of it, he is agreeing to a lifelong deal where he won't be released until his body deteriorated enough (which is a medieval society is prolly around 40? I dunno) that a new(ly trained) and young steward is better. At that point he will be on the street with no job-prospects and no money, and will probably die from exposure after 3 days from hypothermia, as he takes shelter under someones' eave dehydrated and starving.
Besides all that, there's also the simple fact that him feeling there's no reward for his work, will likely have said work deteriorate in quality.

Remember long ears' first response when she saw the sister. She saw her as a subject. She could kill the sister right at that moment. But then, because she thought that the MC is interesting, not only that she healed MC, she talked with him and discussed his options. Rather than just being totally helpless and got separated from his sister (may even permanently if she's dead), the magus want to take the sister not as a research subject but as an apprentice. As an apprentice the sister's life get more guaranteed and she would get stronger. She lowered her price to a lower class apprenticeship, which would normally be much more expensive because she is a high class magus. Then knowing that the MC is even poorer that he thought, she gave him an option / reason for the sister to still be able to be her apprentice and also for the MC to not get separated from her.

Now, the sister and MC will survive, sister will get stronger and live longer, MC will not get separated from her,

Nothing about that is an argument to avoid trying to negotiate slightly better terms. ie. like you said, him being presentable is actually something she should desire herself and should thus not be a hard sell. But the first step is still to negotiate that, or she won't even realize (or can at any point decide it's too much of a hassle and let him rot while still requiring him to work).

and MC can learn the tidbits of magus' workshop and have a chance to get employed at a high class place in the future.

That part about learning is exactly one of the terms I suggested would be the low-hanging fruit he could easily have negotiated for (it's not as if it affects the lessons much if he sits in on them).
And again, for a chance to get employed later his stint as steward would need to be short enough. And for it to be high-class he needs to be allowed to earn the needed qualifications. Still would need enough money for food and lodging that he doesn't starve or freeze to death when jobhunting.

Isn't that generous?

no.

 

[jhs_reika]

So you are just assuming he will get things outside of the contractual obligations.

Yes? Because there's no contract? Whatever she's saying, even if she promised allowance or leisure time or whatever, it would be useless if you don't want to risk trusting her. Same as how the elf trusted the kid.

That argument would only work if his stint as a steward is a short one (and even then having absolutely 0 money is a possible lethal predicament as it might take time to find a new job - particularly if water costs money). But from the sounds of it, he is agreeing to a lifelong deal where he won't be released until his body deteriorated enough (which is a medieval society is prolly around 40? I dunno) that a new(ly trained) and young steward is better. At that point he will be on the street with no job-prospects and no money, and will probably die from exposure after 3 days from hypothermia, as he takes shelter under someones' eave dehydrated and starving.
Besides all that, there's also the simple fact that him feeling there's no reward for his work, will likely have said work deteriorate in quality.

That is a normal work environment in medieval times. No guarantess, assurances, pensions. This is not a modern world.

Nothing about that is an argument to avoid trying to negotiate slightly better terms. ie. like you said, him being presentable is actually something she should desire herself and should thus not be a hard sell. But the first step is still to negotiate that, or she won't even realize (or can at any point decide it's too much of a hassle and let him rot while still requiring him to work).

Bro, this is the era of nobles and peasants. Negotiation can only happens between equals. Disregarding their social class, the elf still held all the cards and can absolutely force things to happen. How can you be so sure that trying to negotiate further wouldn't infuriate the high class magus? Do you know her limit?

That part about learning is exactly one of the terms I suggested would be the low-hanging fruit he could easily have negotiated for (it's not as if it affects the lessons much if he sits in on them).

What lessons? He's gonna be there as an employee. He's not going to a school. When I said learning it means learning in workplace. You know, training and things, gaining work experiences? Have you never worked before?

And again, for a chance to get employed later his stint as steward would need to be short enough. And for it to be high-class he needs to be allowed to earn the needed qualifications.

Being a steward of a high class magus is a high status jump already, especially for an unknown commonfolk kid. About becoming more high class, that's seriously too far in the future. I just explained why the steward job is actually a very good job opportunity because of its prospect, as what MC heavily implied in his inner monologue. Gaining qualifications to become a fully-pledged employee is automatically done as he's working as steward, same as modern day's fixed-term contract becoming permanent.

 

[feha]

Yes? Because there's no contract? Whatever she's saying, even if she promised allowance or leisure time or whatever, it would be useless if you don't want to risk trusting her. Same as how the elf trusted the kid.

A verbal contract is still a contract. In fact, even if the contract was written, someone with the higher status could in most setting easily invalidate the contract or change it anyway no matter what was written (it was why witnesses was/is an important tradition), so a verbal contract is just as holding- It's all about her own integrity.
The issue is that if you don't trust her, taking or not taking the deal is irrelevant, only if you trust her to uphold her own word does you answer matter.

That is a normal work environment in medieval times. No guarantess, assurances, pensions. This is not a modern world.

No, they were usually paid money. And they were often given guarantees such as lodging and food when working as a nobles servant. But yes, pension is something you saved yourself from your pay, banks were hardly the same thing as they are now.

Bro, this is the era of nobles and peasants. Negotiation can only happens between equals. Disregarding their social class, the elf still held all the cards and can absolutely force things to happen. How can you be so sure that trying to negotiate further wouldn't infuriate the high class magus? Do you know her limit?

Negotiation can happen between anyone, particularly as the terms he needs to add are things that would be similarly in her favour as well. And if she gets angry at someone giving counter-offers (assuming you aren't making the process protracted, or asking for the moon) then she is hardly someone you would trust with your and your sister's life, anyway. You won't last long.

What lessons? He's gonna be there as an employee. He's not going to a school. When I said learning it means learning in workplace. You know, training and things, gaining work experiences? Have you never worked before?

Ah, thought you referred to him being present when his sister was taught, rather than thrown out of the room. Given access to read if there's a library, rather than put to the whip if he tries. Maybe even allowed to ask her questions regarding the subjects, rather than have his tongue cut out for daring to speak in her presence.
As for learning the job as a steward, I think it will be hard for him to find any job in any sensible timeframe afterwards. And depend heavily on her status. Either way he'll starve to death from having no savings, as it is guaranteed to take more than a week.

Being a steward of a high class magus is a high status jump already, especially for an unknown commonfolk kid. About becoming more high class, that's seriously too far in the future. I just explained why the steward job is actually a very good job opportunity because of its prospect, as what MC heavily implied in his inner monologue. Gaining qualifications to become a fully-pledged employee is automatically done as he's working as steward, same as modern day's fixed-term contract becoming permanent.

Full-time unpaid internships are things you should stay clear of. Particularly if they take years.

 

[jhs_reika]

The issue is that if you don't trust her, taking or not taking the deal is irrelevant, only if you trust her to uphold her own word does you answer matter.

I think that actually sums up the core of our debate, aside from the difference on what's common in medieval and modern era? I trusted her even though she didn't promise the extra details because I think it's not really necessary, and you can't trust her because she didn't promise those details.

Whatever it is, the result totally depends on the author on how they planned to wrote the elf and her future relationship with the siblings. The author could wrote her as whimsical, temperamental, like a saint, or even stupid dense.

Honestly, our debate is already too long lol