TS Akuyaku Reijou Kamisama Tensei Zen'nin Tsuihou Haishin RTA ~Kiraware Tsuihou End o Mezashiteru no ni Saikyou Musou Road kara Orirarenai~ - Ch. 16.1
- Thread starter MangaDex
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no we are not. mangadex is not a pirate site, and fan translations are 100% legal and supported by the majority of manga and LN authors/mangakas. and in the case they say that they don't support it, then you are not allowed to upload translations of the manga on mangadex.
yes, reading fan translations might seem like something that would lower the sales, but it doesn't. it actually brings them more sales, because it brings attention to the manga from people that wouldn't have known about it to begin with. It has been proven time and time again, that fan translations actually bring up the sales number, even if there is an official translation.
yes there are people that won't buy manga because there is a way for them to read it for free. but 99% of those people wouldn't have bought that manga to begin with.
edit: and if they didn't support fan translations, or people reading their manga for free, they wouldn't have provided free raws to begin with.
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I wasn't talking about the legality of MangaDex, that's a whole other can of worms that I don't care about, but I am here reading manga for free when they were supposed to be purchased merchandise, you can call that whatever but I call that piracy. I am not against it, else I wouldn't be on this site.
I agree that it brings fame and exposure to the manga, but I don't know about "increasing sales" because of it. Imagine someone purchased the Japanese version of Microsoft Office, translated it into English and gave the translated version out to everyone for free, I can't picture the sales increase because of it.
Who's providing free raws? They are called scanslation groups for a reason, they scan and translate. Most of the raws were not provided by the publisher or the author, it's the scanslation groups who purchased the manga, scanned them page by page, and started cleaning all the text on it.
you literally said "we reading on a pirate manga website might have contributed to the hiatus" which claims that mangadex is a pirate website. but even if we ignore that, because it could just be a mistake, but "I am here reading manga for free when they were supposed to be purchased merchandise" this simply isn't true, as i said, most mangakas, authors, and even publishers, support fan translations.
So, i have bought a lot of manga in Japanese, even though i don't know Japanese, just to support the manga. and even the English versions in those that have it. but here is the thing. i wouldn't have found most of those manga if it wasn't for mangadex, and fan translations. there are plenty of examples, and if you don't believe me, just make a poll on reddit asking how many actually bought a manga because they red the fan translation, i have seen one before on a manga subreddit, and it was a bit over 40% of them (don't remember the actual numbers) so yeah.
That's a dumb comparison. first of all Microsoft is one of the biggest companies in the world. secondly, Microsoft gives you windows for free if you choose to. Thirdly, Microsoft office is free (at least the online version) and its an american company, and an american product, made in English as it's original language. and finally, Microsoft office is a tool, not an entertainment product.
have you never checked raw sites? there are always a lot of free chapters there, and they provide free chapters in a lot of cases regularly. (it depends, sometimes they don't, but most do) but even so, there are always free chapters available.
Yeah, but most scanlation groups here are a one man team that do it at their free time. and most of them do it because they like manga.
So what? i don't understand your point here. does translators doing work to translate and put the text have anything to do with the author not supporting fan translations?
all this, and you ignored what i said to you, that "It's legal and supported by the majority of manga and LN authors/mangakas. and in the case they say that they don't support it, then you are not allowed to upload translations of the manga on mangadex." and i also want to say that, there are a lot of cases when authors thank the translators, because their sales increase after a fan translation.
Tell me any one part in that sentence that isn't true. I am here, on MangaDex, reading manga for free, and those manga volumes are merchandise. Heck, I can even find you the price tag for each volume.
I mean, that's good for you, I did the same for a different series, but that's because I am a financially stable adult who can spend money to support the entertainment I enjoy. However, let's take this series for example, there are 9,275 people who bookmarked this. If your 40% is to be believed, that means there are 3,710 sales on this series because of MangaDex. Do you know how ridiculous this sounds? Heck, from what I have seen on the forum, a significant number of users here are children and trust me, they won't pay for it.
You do know that even if a manga series is released in English officially, that doesn't stop people from doing "fan translation" and uploading to MandaDex right? If you don't like this comparison then let's just take a Japanese video game and do the same comparison then. Your choice of title. Can't be indie games tho cause the mangaka has a publisher and not indie.
Most of the raw sites I checked got their raws from either official digital previews, scans of physical magazines, paid manga subscriptions or leaked pre-releases, none of them are free (unless you want incomplete previews). If you found one that's free, then they might either be an indie Twitter manga artist or someone bought it and uploaded it for free, aka pirate.
My point is that, if raws are free why do they ask for donations to buy new volumes? Why do they even scan? If like you said, raws are free, they can skip the whole scan part and jump straight to translation. The "free raws" you mentioned are most likely pirated.
Again with the "majority", I wonder where you get the statistics from. As you mentioned, cases do exist, but they hardly prove the "majority". Also as you said, this is legal, so what ground does the publisher have to disallow uploads to MangaDex? Here is the upload rule for MangaDex by the way, https://mangadex.org/rules. It only says no official releases are allowed. Legal battle in this grey zone is an uphill battle for the publisher, neither the time nor the effort is worth it in the end because more pirate websites will appear anyway. I ignore the whole legal thing because I just don't care. For me, why does it matter if it's legal or not? It's the end result that matters. If you are so focused on legality then you completely missed my point.
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Member
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Damn, this is getting pretty heated for just a casual manga.
Dex-chan lover
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Why are you competing to see who can give the best buffs? Talk with your fists, dammit! Isn't that what you've been doing this whole time!? I want to see blood, damn you! 
Oh and I guess the indefinite hiatus is a bummer too, but Marianne's proposed challenge already killed my interest for the next chapter anyway.
Oh and I guess the indefinite hiatus is a bummer too, but Marianne's proposed challenge already killed my interest for the next chapter anyway.
Okay. Then where is the official English version so i can buy it? oh right, there isn't one. besides, all translated chapters of this manga are free in the official raw site. (i guess you didn't even bother to click the link before saying that.)
Do you even know how to read? i never said that 40% of people reading here bought the manga. what i said was, that from the people that have bought a manga that has a fan translation, 40% of them bought it after reading a fan translation.
That's not my point. my point is that translating a translation to it's original language is a dumb comparison. My point isn't about that anyways, go re read it, i am not going to explain it again. besides, they can be stopped, if a japanese mangaka or author or publisher has a problem with a fan translation existing, mangadex will take it down.
this manga. Literally this manga does. And most manga translation here have (or had) the translated chapters free in the official raw manga sites. most of them, what they do is one of this, every new chapter released is free for a period of time, or release free chapters periodically, or they never release only a few chapters for free, and they never release free chapters again (normally happens in small manga). which in the last case, most of the translations stop where the free chapters stop.
most translators don't do that, if the manga has an official translation, they almost never do that. most of the people asking for donations are asking to keep translating, not for the raws. and no, you are not allowed to use raws from pirate sites if i am not mistaken, groups have been banned for it, they need to be from official raw sites.
the majority of the manga and LN in existence, don't have an engilsh translation, so a fan translation brings more sales, since it brings them to the attention of people that don't know japanese. At least a few extra sales (or a lot in some cases, which the translators have been thanked) because poeple wanted to support them. It's mostly just logic and about looking at japanese authors/mangaka social media using DeepL or something like it (if you don't know japanese at least) and maybe a vpn.
As i said already, if a mangaka or publisher has a problem with a fan translation existing, mangadex will take it down.
mangadex is not a manga pirating website and scanlation is also not piracy, with the internet piracy definition (in most cases at least, unless they use the official translation in any way, which they are banned for here.)
and let me say this. most official translations in newer manga are bad, that's the main reason why fan translations are something that exists for manga that already have official translations.
Well, first of all, translating to a different language doesn't justify piracy. If someone translated a Disney movie into Japanese for the Japanese audience and distributed it around, Disney would still consider that piracy. Not sure why you just can't seem to understand this very simple fact. "Fan translation" is piracy if you include the original work in there, aka video or drawn pictures.
2ndly, I feel like you are the one who doesn't bother to click the links. "ALL" translated chapters? Did you actually check out the links you are talking about? Find me full chapters from 3 to 13 then. As I said, if you want to read incomplete manga, sure, read those demos.
I have seen A LOT of series that even when the free preview ended, the translation continued, so I don't know where your "most manga" statistic came from, but let's focus on the main point you are getting at here.
Have you ever tried to save a chapter from these official raw websites? Try this, open a chapter, right-click and save the image, you probably can't. Those are the securities they put in place trying very hard to prevent users from "stealing" their chapters. Also if you successfully pirated from their official raw website, the image quality is way worse than what's uploaded to MangaDex. That's right, they let you preview it on their official raw website, but downloading it, that's piracy. In case you missed the point again, I am not saying it's hard to download, their security measure can be easily defeated, I am saying the act of downloading from their website is already piracy.
Here is the ToS for the official raw, https://ichijin-plus.com/terms_of_service
In case you can't read Japanese, focus on Article 6
ユーザーは、当該コンテンツ等の正当な権利者から、事前の文書による承諾を得た場合を除いて、当該コンテンツ等の全部または一部を使用、複製、翻案、送信、頒布、貸与、翻訳を含む一切の変更をすることができません。
This means "The User may not use, reproduce, adapt, transmit, distribute, lend, translate, or otherwise alter the Content, in whole or in part"
本サービスに掲載されているコンテンツ等については、ユーザーが直接複製行為、送信行為を行わない場合、例えば当該コンテンツの画像ファイル等のURLを貼り付けて埋め込み表示する等の方法であっても、当社の事前承諾なしにこれを第三者に閲覧させる目的で利用することはできません。
This means you are not even allowed to show these chapters to a 3rd party, for example posting it on MangaDex and letting thousands of users read the translate version of the artwork.
I was in a translation group and I can tell you that you are mistaken.
Only when the manga is super popular and well known, that what they say on their social media account make waves which would make MandaDex afraid. So far those mangas are:
Demon Slayer
Boku no Hero Academia
Gokushufudou: The Way of the House Husband
One Piece
One Punch-Man
Act-Age
Tower of God
Do you see how big you need to be as a mangaka to actually put pressure on pirate websites?
I hope this reply opens your eyes and allows you to admit that you and I are both using a pirate service, MangaDex
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as i already said, it's not piracy. and stop compering movies to manga, and besides disney movies already exist in japanese, can't you find an example of something that doesn't have a translation? it's not piracy, it's in the grey zone, but still not piracy.
i feel like you just don't read my comment. the chapters 3 to 13 were free when they released, and then became payed after a time, as i already said it's very common for raw sites to do that.
i have 699 manga in my library, and most of them have stopped where the free chapters end, and have you asked the translators if maybe they gotten permission to do the fan translation? a lot of translation groups do ask.
in the raw site of this manga, it says you are not allowed to translate etc. before asking the consent of the right holder. but any way, it's TOS, and in this case it exist in case the company or the right holder wants to take legal action.
yes in most sites you can't download for a lot of reasons, but it doesn't change anything.
if the group wasn't reported mangadex wouldn't know to ban them, and if there is no proof that the chapter was pirated, then mangadex obviously won't ban them, since there is no proof, as i said, many groups have been banned, i have been in the discord of some of them.
no. there have been examples of a lot of small manga being taken down from here because mangadex was contacted by a mangaka. i have been in one case that i read a small manga from a small mangaka, was taken down by mangadex as i read it, and the translation group said it was because the mangaka told mangadex.
there is a reason why mangadex says not to upload a manga chapter or art that doesn't have text to be translated, because it would be piracy. (which is also why most groups don't upload extra chapters that only have art and no text) no, mangadex is not a pirate site, it might be close, but it's not.
Let's break this down a bit
It is definitely piracy. You take entertainment media, you translate it, and you re-distribute it. It's completely piracy with violation of unauthorized reproduction, unauthorized distribution and derivative work.
It is a legally grey area, but it is piracy. Stop putting legality together with the act of piracy. Like I said, if you actually read my comments, I don't care about legality, but this is piracy.
Why not? They are both forms of entertainment; they both come from big publishers, they both have translation values, and they both have translation groups translating them. I say they are nearly identical for the example.
As I said, manga that's already officially released in English still gets "translated" into English and uploaded to MangaDex, so why can't movies that already exist in Japanese be "translated" into Japanese and re-distributed?
I feel like you are the one who didn't read my comments, I even gave you the whole translation and the rules on the page. When they release chapters 3 to 13, if you download it, you are pirating. You are not allowed to download the chapters from the website. Especially when they take chapters 3 to 13 off their website, if you still own those chapters, then you are 100% breaking their rules and pirating.
Great, you agreed that pirating from their website is illegal enough that they are able to take legal action against the translators. The whole "you didn't say no so that must mean yes" attitude is just not how consent works.
Doesn't change anything? Why do you think they go through the trouble preventing you from downloading? It is because they don't want you to download from their website, doing so is stealing.
You really don't like to read huh... I posted the rules for upload earlier already but here it is again: https://mangadex.org/rules
Instead of making up your own make-believe rules, try to fact-check with the actual rules.
Time to fact-check you again, straight from the moderator: https://forums.mangadex.org/threads/upload-request-guidelines-read-this-first.1102890/
I don't see any small manga being mentioned in the post, they are all allowed.
By not allowing original, unedited scans, and by not making money, MangaDex has successfully positioned itself in the grey area as far as legal implications are concerned, but this is still piracy. I said this over and over again, I don't care about legality, the whole argument of whether pirating is legal or not, which type of pirating is legal or not, I don't care, but MangaDex is definitely a platform for pirates to share their loot.
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you have a misconception. internet piracy is illegal and it can never be legal, which means that if it's not illegal, it's not piracy. (or at least in most countries) and in this case mangadex is not illegal, so it's not piracy.
Also the mangadex thread just gives a couple of examples but not all, and here is the thing, for small manga that mangadex has been told to remove the chapters, are completely removed from mangadex, and you simply can't post them, and if you try to upload them, they are not accepted by mangadex. as i already said, i have seen many examples.
also, yeah i was wrong about the raws thing, i checked it and the group was banned because they used an already cleaned up version, where it was actually from an official english version. my bad.
and what i meant with the don't compare movies to manga, is that manga are legally books, and different rules apply in books compered to movies. That's why. which is why fan translations are legal (as long as they don't post art without translated text, or straight up raws), when in movies, you can't.
There are many cases where piracy is considered grey in the legal area, here are some examples:
- Abandonware – If a company no longer exists or no longer sells/supports a piece of software, some people argue that downloading it is not harming anyone. However, this is not legally recognized in most jurisdictions.
- Archival & Preservation – Some organizations, like museums and archives, preserve old software, movies, or games to prevent them from disappearing. Some countries allow limited copying for preservation purposes.
- Personal Backup – Some jurisdictions allow you to make personal backups of media you own. However, downloading a copy from the internet (even if you own the original) is typically still illegal.
- Fair Use (U.S.) / Fair Dealing (Canada, U.K.) – In limited circumstances, using copyrighted material without permission is allowed for purposes like education, criticism, or research, but this rarely extends to full copies of movies, games, or software.
- Regional Restrictions – Some people justify piracy when content is unavailable in their country due to licensing restrictions, but this does not make it legal.
- Revoked Access – If a digital service shuts down (like when DRM servers go offline), some argue that obtaining copies through piracy is fair, but legally, this is still questionable.
A very ai like response... you should not rely on ai for proving someone wrong, especially when you don't even read it (or maybe you copied it from random article on the internet that used ai, idk). what does personal backup and fair use have to do with piracy in this context? also the abandonware, archival and revoked access is basically the same thing, and a normal human wouldn't have split them like that (unless it's for a presentation, and you try to make it seem longer or something). and also museums for software games and movies? excluding the fact that it only exists with games as far as i know, and that's only for very old games on old systems that have physical copies of the games. how is that anywhere close to internet piracy?
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This is why I said over and over again I don't like to argue on legality, it's pretty much a philosophical question at this point, everyone has their own view on things.
For me, abandonware, revoked access, archival & preservation are very valid grey legal piracy and are different.
- Abandonware - The company died
- Revoked Access - The company is still alive but they just don't let you use their software anymore
- Archival & Preservation - You are keeping all the past versions in the form of archival regardless of the company status
There's no right or wrong when arguing about the legality, since each country, each region, and each jurisdiction has their own rulings, especially when in this case, it's international. That's how this becomes a grey area. However, as long as the content has a copyright, it's piracy, and MangaDex is a platform for pirates to upload their pirated content.
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Dex-chan lover
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God fucking dammit, the japanese really need to fix their whole work culture because they only gorge themselves with "Generic medieval fantasy isekai with a blank sheet of paper high school age plain looking black haired geek male mc who gets big boobied girls by being a stale bowl of boiled rice that doesn't notice anything" and don't touch anything else. (In the isekai front, though their romcom with no progress at all obsession is still worrying)
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