Until I Become Me

[urugiru]

@K00K13 I have a somewhat different take, though some of what you said rings true. I would say that whereas you look at the story as a reflection of what the author would like to see in the world, and you frown upon that because it is unhealthy to project such expectations onto real people, I think what we are really seeing is a reflection within the author's mind, and so it should be treated as fiction, with the same suspension of disbelief as any fantasy or sci-fi work. Imagination does not have to be constrained by reality, especially if no blurring of the line between the two is implied.

I understand unlike many works of this genre, this story has more depth, and so you may think it is trying to make some social commentary, but I believe, from what the author has said, that that is at most secondary.

 

[K00K13]

@urugiru

I understand where you're coming from and your points are valid but as it is set up as a sort of coming of age/growing up story, I can't help but treat it as such even with the fantasy/supernatural body switching aspect of it. You are right to say that imagination does not have to be constrained by reality, I agree a hundred percent on that but even fantasy and sci-fi works have real life implications. There can be multiple parallels between the two, even if the the author did not intend it. This is because all works are influenced by real life in varying amounts, we can never fully make up something or detach it from reality.

Also I'm not blaming the author for the way I interpreted their work and I don't believe it is the way they 'want the world to be'. It is just what their society taught them is 'normal'. It is no secret that countries such as Japan, Korea, and China just to name a few are rather conservative about such topics. I'm not bashing them for that and I do not think of them as lesser for it.

I just don't think that it would be a great influence especially on younger audiences because of it's seemingly strict definitions on what a boy and a girl should be. Even as an adult, I find myself uncomfortable with how it is handled especially since it seems to be a key plot element.

In the end though there are multiple interpretations. Some may view it as a trans allegory, some may view it as a criticism on toxic masculinity, the list goes on and on. You can view it from any point to be honest. Even if the author didn't, they don't really have control on how their work is interpreted by different people which is actually quite amazing.

It is not that I dislike the story either because it does address other issues which I appreciate greatly and applaud the author for.

So in the end I respect your personal interpretation and I'm happy to see another point of view though my opinions still stand for me.

 

[urugiru]

@K00K13 Alright, as you said, in the end this is an "eye of the beholder" type thing, so you're of course fine to let the story make you feel however you want, including disappointed or other such bad feelings.

My only final trump card is that the vast majority of tv shows, movies, manga, anime and especially video games revolve around insane amounts of violence. Now, unless you are tiring yourself out hating every action/adventure/fantasy/sci-fi/true-crime/scary thing, is it not a double standard to give them some kind of a pass? (Btw as an aside on hypocrisy, though it isn't yours, it seems like an inconsistent "punishment" that murder still lands you safely in PG, but showing a nipple gets you R or 18+.) I mean I'm sure you don't condone violence, because most people don't. But something in your mind says it is ok to make an exception category for violence where that gets to exist entirely in the fantasy realm and it doesn't say anything bad about the author, but it doesn't for people who explore coming of age/growing up stories, without you assuming they are putting out a reflection of how they see the world?

I am not saying this to change your mind. There are cases where I want to like something, but I can't just change my opinion just because I logic hard at it. Entertainment works somewhere more in the so-called lizard brain. But, well you've been open to my thoughts on the matter so far, so I figured I'd give one last rant.

 

[K00K13]

@urugiru

First of all, thank you for replying! I appreciate the conversation especially during these dire times. So having more than just a one off reply is very welcome.

I agree that the hypocrisy shown by the rating system is absolutely ridiculous and most of the time I do not use it to measure which entertainment to consume or to show younger audiences because it simply doesn't make sense most of the time as you stated in your example. Also I agree that there is definitely a double standard in everything.

As for violence in media, I believe it depends on the reasons behind it as well as how graphic it is. I personally do not like it nor do I feel comfortable consuming any sort of media that has mindless violence and torture in general, especially if it's graphic (tbh I avoid any and all graphic violence if possible). Regardless of it's genre. I would understand if violence was present due to war for example since in reality war and violence are tightly knit. If an author chooses to write about such things then they do so because of a message they want to portray most of the time. A world view even. Sometimes I do not approve of the message that is portrayed similarly with how in this manga I do not agree with how gender is portrayed. If an author for example likes to write about physically torturing their characters, whether they are the hero or villain, I would definitely voice out my concerns especially if it is for a minor reason or if it is clearly inappropriate, at least in my mind. Another example would be if a character does a war crime in a fantasy manga and it is not addressed as such then of course I'll be extremely disappointed and uncomfortable because it makes it seem as if the author does not believe the act to be a war crime. Or may even encourage it though that may be too far-fetched.

When writing/drawing a story, the author bases a lot of things on what they know and believe. That's why I feel inclined to believe that the author is projecting what 'normal' is to them. Especially in a story of this genre. After all how can a person write about something they are not at least somewhat familiar with or have opinions on.

Though I do like the idea of entertainment being separate from any opinions or agendas, I feel like it is nearly impossible. At least in my opinion.

Overall, thank you for your input! This discussion was very enjoyable and it's refreshing to see another way of looking at things. I also do not expect to change your opinions and in no way am I saying that your points are wrong or inferior. They're very concise and enjoyable to read so I'm happy that you took the time to give me one last rant.

 

[IlaiaCorde]

I disagree, Kook. The family is just abiding by what the MC wanted following the genderswap, since the MC has not yet (even as of Chapter 12 btw) come straight out and told them she want's be treated more like a girl now. Though in around chapter 12 she is actually thinking about these things and wants to tell them. So there are no stereotypes at all here. It's a situation where the MC has not decided for themselves and made their desires known.

 

[O_Hiert]

Now.. I wonder how he/she will tell them the truth what reaction of his/her classmates will give

I'll be waiting for that chapter
(No don't spoil me ty)

 

[nahui3]

This is about trannies isn't it? What's up with japan suddenly having a bunch of tranny manga publishing?

 

[Smileyguy]

@nahui3
It's gender bender, boys becoming girls and eventually accepting their new lifes
If you don't like the genre why are you here?
The tag is literally in the description of the manga
Also, 'trannie' is very disrespectful

 

[portable]

@smileyguy

@nahui3

I do no think you can call this a tranny because in this manga the boy change gender completly while a tranny is somebody who cut his dick dress like a girl and call himself a women.
It is something completly different in my opinion.
I find this kind of manga quitte interesting and somewhat funny too. I think it is more about how a boy would react in a female body that some political statement.

 

[nahui3]

@Smileyguy
I never said I disliked the genre, just that this has the tone of "the problem trannies face when transitioning in school" and what's wrong with "tranny"? It sounds cuter than trangender
@portable
Thanks for actually addressing what I asked unlike someone else here and you're right it doesn't feel like a politically biased manga

 

[portable]

@nahui3

I want to correct myself. I am a big fan of funny gender bender so my answer was more catered for this kind of gender bender. These kind of comics are clearly not political and make fun of the different way a boy or a girl think or behave.
This one have more serious tone with bullying and thing like that.
I am honnestly not a big fan, it is possible that it has some « tranny » undertone. A boy who refuse to accept his feminity and slowly accept it.
It also have a bit of punishment path, a boy being punished for being mean to girl.
I still think that it is more a « how would you react if you turned into a girl » than an political statement. It could be interesting to see the political and sexual view of the author.

I want also to add that tranny sound cuter than abomination which is the abrahamic way to speak of it.

 

[urugiru]

To add my two cents to your discussion, while I know from interacting with some of the audience of the series that trans people feel a connection to the story, I also know, particularly because that's not what I look for in it, that it has a lot of value beyond that. (To clarify, I like TG/TSF content without self-identifying. I just like the concept of people struggling as a different sex.) I find the art style charming, the characters, storytelling and depth compelling, and the promise of what's to come has me hooked.
I think a lot of people read into the story a lot more seriousness than is intended by the author. The story maintains a lot of realism because that's how it was written initially, and you can't really write your way out of that once you get started. But it seems to have worked, as demonstrated by its sizable success. At the end of the day though, the author writes the story to have fun, not to make some grandiose statement about anything.

 

[Neyney]

Late chiming in on what has been an interesting discussion to skim through, however the term <<tranny>> as has been mentioned is offensive, regardless of how "cute" it is or isn't as it has for years been used with derogatory connotations by those who object to the existence of transgender persons. Most people use the shortened <<trans>> to refer to transgender people, both trans people themselves and those of a neutral or supportive inclination.

This story has been an interesting one as a "what if?" or "karmic retribution" type story, but also one that blurs the lines between genders (genderbend) in a way that is equal parts entertaining and respectful to those who may be sensetive to this subject.

It is understandable how and why transgender individuals identify with the MC as it shares many themes in common with the actual experiences of those trans folk who do opt transition genders irl.

The thing to remember there is that trans(gender) is an umbrella term for several groups. Those transitioning from male to female, those transitioning from female to male (a group almost always forgotten), those who socially transition but do not opt for surgery and those who feel they sit somewhere between the standard gender archetypes; the non-binary (or enby as they're known in the trans community).

However the biggest flaw of logic many make in regards to genderbend vs trans is the conflation of gender and sex.

While sex is biological and rooted in your chromosomes and anatomy, gender is not.
Gender is a social construct based on archetypes of conduct attributed to each sex. I. E: the conduct of each sex and how they are expected to visually differentiate themselves according to their biology.

Stories such as this challenge those archetypes by exposing their MC to a sudden swap in these socially applied expectations and exploring what it actually means to be the opposite sex & gender.

While all of this is interesting to delve into, this manga is, first and foremost designed to entertain and does so splendidly

The idea of a full sex reversal has always been an interesting trope to explore and I feel the mangaka in this case has struck a wonderful balance between respectfulness and entertainment.

From a non polarised viewpoint this manga is enjoyable to me for its heartwarming interactions between characters, like ability of not only the MC but also supporting cast and uses a visually appealing art style which is neither too hyper realistic nor to stylised.
The pacing is good and the content builds just enough with each new chapter to neither be a cognitive overload nor too sparse of any meaningful value. I'm definitely looking forward to the next update.

 

[urugiru]

@Neyney Your comment was a nice read. I hope you continue to enjoy the story as it progresses.

 

[estelion]

I went and read all the raws. This is great.

A lot of it is low-stakes because of the way it's viewed through the lens of a child (and then a young teen), but that viewpoint allows you to engage with these small problems with sincerity.

It's a little sad at times, but the character growth and Akira's interactions with her* peers is heartwarming and sweet.

Also lol. "Hot babe in a Santa outfit fucked against her will".

 

[TheMadPirate]

First of all, there is no such thing as "transition from male to female" ( or vice-versa ) in the real world. Simply put there is no way to alter neither the genotype or the phenotype to go from a fully functional reproductive male to a fully functional reproductive female. In that sense, Nyotaika as a genre is far from being a "transgender" genre ( with the only possibly exception of "Back Street Girls" and "Boku ga Watashi ni Naru Tame ni", which can be both considered a "transgender" manga ). Simply put if they do not have an XX sex chromosomes and have since birth the possibility to develop fully functional uterus and ovaries, they simple can not be considered as females from any rational point of view. Yes, due to a phenomenon of extended phenotype "trans-girls" ( some of them ) can look like like women and in some cases act like one, but they are far from being females. In a sense, if you buy that, you are doing nothing but buying a cheap knock-off of a female ( who also lacks reproductive capability ) instead of getting the real deal.

Now, regarding your Judith Buttler non-sense.... well, postmodernists are nothing but charlatans from the moment they reject the existence so something so obvious as objective reality, therefore debating the nonsense of postmodernism in this site would be a waste of time. For that there are far more better material that deals with the subject like "Fashionable Nonsense" and "Beyond Intellectual Impostures" of Dr. Alan Sokal or "Explaining Postmodernism" of Dr. Stephen Hicks. In that sense, those books are an excellent reference to understand the insanity of the ( false ) premises of charlatans like Judith Buttler.

Now finally, coming back to the original topic, the fact that in most Nyotaika manga there is a full transformation from male to female ( functional reproductive organs included ) up the genetic level really disqualifies them as being considered "transgender" stories. More so, most Nyotaika manga make a clear point on the aspect of sexual di-morphism like the difference in strength, muscle volume and height between males and females i.e. biological sex is not a "social construction" . Yes, there is the psychological aspect of the "heroine's journey" but that path is also heavily influenced by the push of female hormones in the new body and the way those hormones rewire the brain i.e also not a "social construction". In that sense, probably "Boku Girl", "Kanojo ni Naru Hi" and it's sequel, and "Tensei Pandemic" are a good examples of a good execution of such premise ( that the new body's female hormones push the rewiring of the character's brain ), even in the cases in which the protagonist initially reject those impulses. In any case, the point of the heroine being a full fledged female is the main distinction in most cases.

 

[FioreFire]

Any trans people reading this series and taking a peek into these comments, watch out, stay safe, and remember that you and your experiences are valid no matter what these people say

 

[CuteGothLolita]

Until I Become Me / Ore ga Watashi ni Naru made is a remarkably conceived manga telling of a male to female transformation story, told with an interesting twist to it. Most male to female transition stories go front to back, with the beginning telling of all the troubles that the transgender person has, and with the satisfying ending of the transgender person's story becoming an atomically correct female. Until I Become Me tells of such a story, but tells it from back to front. The becoming of an atomically correct female is at the beginning of the story, with the rest of the story told afterward. This is what makes this story and manga something special to read and enjoy, IMO.

 

[estelion]

The raws are on hiatus now after the volume 3 release. Feelsbadman.

 

[urugiru]

@estelion No they're not. Or rather they were, for maybe a month or less, but if you check out the twitter, the last two releases are for a new chapter, post- volume 3. Unless you know something I don't.