Villain - Ch. 5.2

[MangaDex]

 

[Amalia]

It does feel like it's coming to an end but we still have Azuru's brother situation to deal with. A meeting between the bro and Renri is definitely happening at some point, maybe. I just hope the ending is good!

 

[BekkaStars]

It does feel like it's coming to an end but we still have Azuru's brother situation to deal with. A meeting between the bro and Renri is definitely happening at some point, maybe. I just hope the ending is good!

Yeah!!! don't seems like this gonna be a long manga, but maybe they bring this topic!!! And we're two hopping the good ending

 

[pink_rabbit]

At page 7; did they really say "trap" (otoko no ko in the Japanese counter part and trap is the English side term) for Renri?

 

[phosphylite]

At page 7; did they really say "trap" (otoko no ko in the Japanese counter part and trap is the English side term) for Renri?

I probably should've added a note at the end for this. They used オレ女, which refers to very masculine girls who use 俺 as their pronoun of choice. I opted to translate this as "trap," as it's a derogatory term for trans people, which I think works in context since the others are looking down on Renri. In hindsight, this may have been a poor/confusing choice given that it's almost always used to refer to feminine-presenting men/male crossdressers/trans women, which Renri is not.

 

[pink_rabbit]

I probably should've added a note at the end for this. They used オレ女, which refers to very masculine girls who use 俺 as their pronoun of choice. I opted to translate this as "trap," as it's a derogatory term for trans people, which I think works in context since the others are looking down on Renri. In hindsight, this may have been a poor/confusing choice given that it's almost always used to refer to feminine-presenting men/male crossdressers/trans women, which Renri is not.

It would have been nice to put the note instead..... Forgive me if my words are too frank but I think it was a poor choice of words as Renri is trying to be more "masculine" which is the opposite on what their character is. I would say "reverse trap" as that is what the terms are.

btw I am a transmale. I understand many don't like the term but please don't speak for me as I like to half-joke around that I am a trap/otoko no ko. You can say many or most. However, if we go by words then "wo/men" could be a derogatory term for trans people as well in calling their biological birth sex. It hurts but is true.

Thank you for translating this manga but please choose different words that won't cause the discorse. I am sorry to say this. I hope this was an open to give the criticism. I don't say these words out of bad intentions.

 

[phosphylite]

It would have been nice to put the note instead..... Forgive me if my words are too frank but I think it was a poor choice of words as Renri is trying to be more "masculine" which is the opposite on what their character is. I would say "reverse trap" as that is what the terms are.

btw I am a transmale. I understand many don't like the term but please don't speak for me as I like to half-joke around that I am a trap/otoko no ko. You can say many or most. However, if we go by words then "wo/men" could be a derogatory term for trans people as well in calling their biological birth sex. It hurts but is true.

Thank you for translating this manga but please choose different words that won't cause the discorse. I am sorry to say this. I hope this was an open to give the criticism. I don't say these words out of bad intentions.

Don't worry, I appreciate the feedback! Sorry, it was not my intention to speak for you. I only meant that trap is often an offensive term, especially when someone cis is calling a trans person that (which we see here in the story).

I understood that "reverse trap" would've been the more "proper" term given that it only applies to afab like Renri, but I didn't think there was a need to add the "reverse" part since we all should know Renri's biological sex is female, and it just didn't flow as well imo. To me, "trap" describes just what you said—that the person is acting the opposite/outside the bounds of the gender others initially think they are, but when those others find out they're wrong, they feel like they were "trapped" into believing the way they did. Simply calling Renri "woman" here didn't feel like it captured the nuance of the original Japanese, and something like "tomboy" also didn't feel like it had enough impact. I've been suggested "he-she/she-he" as a better option, which I didn't know was a term, so I can update the chapter with that instead.

 

[Elire]

Thank you for the chapter, I find this series to be really enjoyable and the clear and high-quality translations (and all the other steps involved) really contribute toward that!

 

[pink_rabbit]

Don't worry, I appreciate the feedback! Sorry, it was not my intention to speak for you. I only meant that trap is often an offensive term, especially when someone cis is calling a trans person that (which we see here in the story).

I understood that "reverse trap" would've been the more "proper" term given that it only applies to afab like Renri, but I didn't think there was a need to add the "reverse" part since we all should know Renri's biological sex is female, and it just didn't flow as well imo. To me, "trap" describes just what you said—that the person is acting the opposite/outside the bounds of the gender others initially think they are, but when those others find out they're wrong, they feel like they were "trapped" into believing the way they did. Simply calling Renri "woman" here didn't feel like it captured the nuance of the original Japanese, and something like "tomboy" also didn't feel like it had enough impact. I've been suggested "he-she/she-he" as a better option, which I didn't know was a term, so I can update the chapter with that instead.

Yes, I understand. However, calling someone their biological sex is also an offensive term such as calling a transwoman a "man". It's not right but it happens. I do know that otoko no ko/trap is the North Eastern Asian term for "drag queen." Many men dress up as women. And no, that's not "trapped" when that's gender dysphoria. Those are two different things. This article is perfect for the history and terminology of traps/otoko no ko! Unfortunately some words aren't easy to translate and Eng speakers must understand different cultural words.

Hate to say this but the only terms for Renri for their biological way is calling them..... (forgive me all lesbians out there) the dy-word.

 

[phosphylite]

Yes, I understand. However, calling someone their biological sex is also an offensive term such as calling a transwoman a "man". It's not right but it happens. I do know that otoko no ko/trap is the North Eastern Asian term for "drag queen." Many men dress up as women. And no, that's not "trapped" when that's gender dysphoria. Those are two different things. This article is perfect for the history and terminology of traps/otoko no ko! Unfortunately some words aren't easy to translate and Eng speakers must understand different cultural words.

Hate to say this but the only terms for Renri for their biological way is calling them..... (forgive me all lesbians out there) the dy-word.

Yes, I know it's offensive to call someone trans their biological sex; it's the same principle as being deadnamed. The reason I didn't do that here is because "woman" alone doesn't carry the nuance of the original JP, imo, despite it working as an offensive term for the EN TL.

I think you might've misunderstood my "trapped" explanation. I wasn't talking about how the people who are called traps feel; if I was, then yes, that would be gender dysphoria. I was talking about traps as a slur, which arose from the (ridiculous) idea that trans women are just men trapping straight men into sex.

Thanks for the article! There's also a linked article that explains trap in the English context, and it mentions that it's a subjective term, which I agree with. Personally, I don't think there needs to be a distinction between traps and reverse traps, but I realize not everyone thinks that way (maybe most people, actually), so that's why I changed the TL.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that d*ke is the only word that can be used. I don't think it's any better than trap, actually, as d*ke is so heavily associated with lesbians. The original JP line, オレ女, doesn't say anything about sexual/romantic preferences, and we don't know Renri's preferences for sure in story, either.

 

[pink_rabbit]

Yes, I know it's offensive to call someone trans their biological sex; it's the same principle as being deadnamed. The reason I didn't do that here is because "woman" alone doesn't carry the nuance of the original JP, imo, despite it working as an offensive term for the EN TL.

I think you might've misunderstood my "trapped" explanation. I wasn't talking about how the people who are called traps feel; if I was, then yes, that would be gender dysphoria. I was talking about traps as a slur, which arose from the (ridiculous) idea that trans women are just men trapping straight men into sex.

Thanks for the article! There's also a linked article that explains trap in the English context, and it mentions that it's a subjective term, which I agree with. Personally, I don't think there needs to be a distinction between traps and reverse traps, but I realize not everyone thinks that way (maybe most people, actually), so that's why I changed the TL.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that d*ke is the only word that can be used. I don't think it's any better than trap, actually, as d*ke is so heavily associated with lesbians. The original JP line, オレ女, doesn't say anything about sexual/romantic preferences, and we don't know Renri's preferences for sure in story, either.

You're right about not everyone thinking term thinking how most people see that because of the misinformation used on the term with how transphobes and modern fandoms...... A lot don't bother learning anime/manga slang.....

Hm, then I suppose its better to use last page notes. It's tough.

Hope that dead names end and the term "trap" will be used correctly. Gender is very complex. However, it's not hurting anyone. It's why I joke around that I am a "trap" with people. Thank you for clearing this up!