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Vinland Saga - Ch. 210 - Thousand Year Voyage Part 19
- Thread starter MangaDex
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So close!! Maybe re-read the manga in its entirety ten more times and your pea sized brain just might be able to grasp that Gudrid's husband would never do that!KILL THE BABY AND HIS WIFE AND THORFINN will go back to his old ways let's gooooooooooooo
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Here you are talking about grammar when you have no clue what paraprosdokian is. Clown shit right here. Are you @Swagner from the last chapter?
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Thorkell showing up like this is haunting. He loves war from the bottom of his heart, and for his own time, and in his world he's absolutely right. Hild is also right, I think the nation Iceland has become today is proof that Thorfinn's dream can be achieved, if you're far enough away, and everyone has a desire to live together in peace.
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Nice revisionism, bro. It was the tribesman that got almost fatally high and started hallucinating, and then attacked the Nords that started this. Ivar didn't attack anyone, he defended Thorfinn FROM attack.
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Thorfinn was originally going to start an alphabet factory, but has to stop because all he could produce was L's.
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If air is coming out of wound it means his lung is raptured. So there is no way he is going to survive this, no one knows how to ventilate lungs, remove blood from them (he is suffocating = lungs can't access air because of blood build up) or treat wounds like that.
I wonder if end is near for the story.
I wonder if end is near for the story.
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-Thorfin passes away
-Timeskip
-Hild training Thorfin's child
-Timeskip
-Hild training Thorfin's child
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Thorfinn will not die in Vinlnad, he will survive, and he will not be at 100% imo
If he were to die, it will be in Iceland. He has to live in order to see the failure and the consequences.
If a character were to die in Vinland, it will probably be- Ivar, Hild, Einar, or Ga'aoqi.
We are in the final arc, so i expect to see some deaths before the end, and it would be fitting and realistic as well.
Einar dying will be both tragic and poetic, since he will die in the village he fought so hard to build and to protect, and with Arnheid's statue being there, its just perfect.
Thorfinn dying ala Thors and Askeladd is also good, and then have Einar make a statue of Thorfinn- the IRL route.
Yukimura can really do something special for the end, and i hope he does.
If he were to die, it will be in Iceland. He has to live in order to see the failure and the consequences.
If a character were to die in Vinland, it will probably be- Ivar, Hild, Einar, or Ga'aoqi.
We are in the final arc, so i expect to see some deaths before the end, and it would be fitting and realistic as well.
Einar dying will be both tragic and poetic, since he will die in the village he fought so hard to build and to protect, and with Arnheid's statue being there, its just perfect.
Thorfinn dying ala Thors and Askeladd is also good, and then have Einar make a statue of Thorfinn- the IRL route.
Yukimura can really do something special for the end, and i hope he does.
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Bro I just don't want Thorfinn to die
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For the love of Norse gods, Lnu gods and the god author Yukimura himself. Don't kill Hild please
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Started reading this story a month ago and now I'm here.
One thing that's been bothering me about the Vinland arc is the way the story represents Miskwekepu'j (the Lnu Shaman) and especially Ivar (the sword face tattoo guy). But more importantly I think they don't feel like good stand ins for what they're supposed to represent, which is peace through self defense.
Peace is a constant theme throughout Vinland Saga, and I feel there's three major different ways the characters try to achieve it:
Peace through Pacifism (Thorfinn)
Peace through Conquest (Canute)
Peace through Self Defense (Ivar, the Shaman).
For most of the story we've followed Thorfinn, so his method has been the one the story has championed. The story offers Canute's perspective as well, mostly during the Slave arc. While Canute is centralizing authority in the North Sea, he does so through war, so it's a hypocritical peace, a peace born through bloodshed. Despite this, I feel the story has been fair to Canute, we can tell he doesn't enjoy killing and we see that he did eventually end the war in England and has arrested pirates. He even reduced the Norse troops occupying England. The story does a good job of showing both sides to Canute's method.
By contrast the story is very positive to Thorfinn's method, at least up until Vinland. Somehow Thorfinn has always managed to scrape by without killing. I felt that, eventually though, the story does have to test his pacifism further, which it is doing now. Can Thorfinn protect his loved ones every single time without shedding blood? What if his enemies shed blood first? What if they try to aim for his loved ones? Thorfinn can dodge all the attacks he wants, but Gudrid, Einar, & Karli can't. Somehow he's managed to scrape by for most of the story. Thorfinn's pacifism is very admirable, however it's always felt too idealistic. It can only work if he's able to persuade them, or knocks them out without killing them, and that'll only last so long.
Which is where we get to Ivar & the Lnu Shaman. Ivar is a pretty big asshole. However, he also has a point that if the Natives are hostile to them they need to have a way to defend themselves. They can't just let themselves be killed. After all Arnheid Village only has one boat, they can't all flee on one trip. Similarly the Lnu Shaman has reason to fear the Norse. The Norse are a foreign people with a foreign culture. Unlike the Lnu, they have large scale agriculture. Rather than being hunter gatherers, the Norse want to tear the forest apart and create fields. While there are positives to this, as pointed out by Plmk, these two cultures are incompatible. If Vinland is allowed to grow it'll ultimately mean the destruction of the forest, and the natural flora and fauna will recede. The Lnu will have no other choice but to either leave or adopt the same practices as the Norse, leaving behind their old way of life.
Though both the Norse & Lnu have reason to fear each other, the story makes Ivar & the Shaman seem like villians for it. I wouldn't mind Ivar being an asshole if the story had another more reasonable character to represent his argument, but other than him we have Mr.Ugge, who is a paranoid superstitious man. Ivar also wants to take Thorfinn's place as the leader. The story mostly just makes him seem like he's the one causing the war by instigating in the first place. He kind of is, but he was proven right in the end. People say him bringing a sword caused all of this, but what led to this conflict in the end was the plague, this war would've happened regardless, and if that's the case in hindsight it would've been better to bring weapons, given like I said they can't immediately escape. Even if we ignore the plague, the different lifestyles these two people lived would've also driven them to conflict farther into the future. Thorfinn might be willing to negotiate, but will Vinland or Lnu's future leaders be? I just wish Ivar wasn't made to seem like just some war hungry asshole, and they gave his perspective the nuance they gave Canute. In the end, would it have really hurt if they built a fort?
Finally we have the Shaman. He's not as bad as Ivar. I feel they do give his perspective more nuance. He has good reason to distrust the Norse, even if they aren't outwardly hostile. In Chapter 189 he predicts the destruction that'll befall his people, including disease, and as we know all of this stuff does come to pass, even if most of his predictions are post-Columbus and aren't caused by the Norse specifically. Early on they make him seem pretty sympathetic. However, as the story goes on he takes drastic measures to instigate a war, and as Thorfinn is the main character, he's admonished as no different than Ivar, someone who's too paranoid. Don't they know that sheer pacifism is the true road to peace? But in the end, they were both right. The plague made it impossible for the Lnu & Norse to co-exist. The Shaman starts becoming more sympathetic again, as he agrees to Thorfinn's people leaving, however as we see some of the other tribes aren't as trusting. I'm interested where they'll take his character moving forward.
It is pretty disappointing Ivar seemingly died an asshole, no different than when he was introduced. Maybe he's still alive? It seems Einar might be considering his point of view. Either way I think up to this point in the story I think the Peace through Self Defense perspective hasn't gotten it's fair do's. However, it's just how I feel right now and things might change as the story goes on. I just hope Gudrid and her kid are okay.
One thing that's been bothering me about the Vinland arc is the way the story represents Miskwekepu'j (the Lnu Shaman) and especially Ivar (the sword face tattoo guy). But more importantly I think they don't feel like good stand ins for what they're supposed to represent, which is peace through self defense.
Peace is a constant theme throughout Vinland Saga, and I feel there's three major different ways the characters try to achieve it:
Peace through Pacifism (Thorfinn)
Peace through Conquest (Canute)
Peace through Self Defense (Ivar, the Shaman).
For most of the story we've followed Thorfinn, so his method has been the one the story has championed. The story offers Canute's perspective as well, mostly during the Slave arc. While Canute is centralizing authority in the North Sea, he does so through war, so it's a hypocritical peace, a peace born through bloodshed. Despite this, I feel the story has been fair to Canute, we can tell he doesn't enjoy killing and we see that he did eventually end the war in England and has arrested pirates. He even reduced the Norse troops occupying England. The story does a good job of showing both sides to Canute's method.
By contrast the story is very positive to Thorfinn's method, at least up until Vinland. Somehow Thorfinn has always managed to scrape by without killing. I felt that, eventually though, the story does have to test his pacifism further, which it is doing now. Can Thorfinn protect his loved ones every single time without shedding blood? What if his enemies shed blood first? What if they try to aim for his loved ones? Thorfinn can dodge all the attacks he wants, but Gudrid, Einar, & Karli can't. Somehow he's managed to scrape by for most of the story. Thorfinn's pacifism is very admirable, however it's always felt too idealistic. It can only work if he's able to persuade them, or knocks them out without killing them, and that'll only last so long.
Which is where we get to Ivar & the Lnu Shaman. Ivar is a pretty big asshole. However, he also has a point that if the Natives are hostile to them they need to have a way to defend themselves. They can't just let themselves be killed. After all Arnheid Village only has one boat, they can't all flee on one trip. Similarly the Lnu Shaman has reason to fear the Norse. The Norse are a foreign people with a foreign culture. Unlike the Lnu, they have large scale agriculture. Rather than being hunter gatherers, the Norse want to tear the forest apart and create fields. While there are positives to this, as pointed out by Plmk, these two cultures are incompatible. If Vinland is allowed to grow it'll ultimately mean the destruction of the forest, and the natural flora and fauna will recede. The Lnu will have no other choice but to either leave or adopt the same practices as the Norse, leaving behind their old way of life.
Though both the Norse & Lnu have reason to fear each other, the story makes Ivar & the Shaman seem like villians for it. I wouldn't mind Ivar being an asshole if the story had another more reasonable character to represent his argument, but other than him we have Mr.Ugge, who is a paranoid superstitious man. Ivar also wants to take Thorfinn's place as the leader. The story mostly just makes him seem like he's the one causing the war by instigating in the first place. He kind of is, but he was proven right in the end. People say him bringing a sword caused all of this, but what led to this conflict in the end was the plague, this war would've happened regardless, and if that's the case in hindsight it would've been better to bring weapons, given like I said they can't immediately escape. Even if we ignore the plague, the different lifestyles these two people lived would've also driven them to conflict farther into the future. Thorfinn might be willing to negotiate, but will Vinland or Lnu's future leaders be? I just wish Ivar wasn't made to seem like just some war hungry asshole, and they gave his perspective the nuance they gave Canute. In the end, would it have really hurt if they built a fort?
Finally we have the Shaman. He's not as bad as Ivar. I feel they do give his perspective more nuance. He has good reason to distrust the Norse, even if they aren't outwardly hostile. In Chapter 189 he predicts the destruction that'll befall his people, including disease, and as we know all of this stuff does come to pass, even if most of his predictions are post-Columbus and aren't caused by the Norse specifically. Early on they make him seem pretty sympathetic. However, as the story goes on he takes drastic measures to instigate a war, and as Thorfinn is the main character, he's admonished as no different than Ivar, someone who's too paranoid. Don't they know that sheer pacifism is the true road to peace? But in the end, they were both right. The plague made it impossible for the Lnu & Norse to co-exist. The Shaman starts becoming more sympathetic again, as he agrees to Thorfinn's people leaving, however as we see some of the other tribes aren't as trusting. I'm interested where they'll take his character moving forward.
It is pretty disappointing Ivar seemingly died an asshole, no different than when he was introduced. Maybe he's still alive? It seems Einar might be considering his point of view. Either way I think up to this point in the story I think the Peace through Self Defense perspective hasn't gotten it's fair do's. However, it's just how I feel right now and things might change as the story goes on. I just hope Gudrid and her kid are okay.
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Because the actual answer is peace through power. Canute gains "peace" of a sort because he's strong enough to kill anyone who tries to do otherwise. Thorfinn doesn't fight back but he's strong enough that it doesn't matter, and so far he's been able to essentially just run away from his troubles. The problem with Ivar isn't actually that he's advocating weapons. The problem is that he's weak. If he were strong, it wouldn't matter as much whether or not he had weapons to invite a fight because once it's obvious that he is strong, people don't fight him.
The Lnu Shaman, on the other hand, is completely irredeemable to me mostly because he's got magic visions of the future and that's his entire gig, he's not against peace he's against peace on any terms but his. He's the type that actually does start wars.
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remember when everyone was shit talking Hild in that one arc 🤨
