Wakamono no Kuro Mahou Hanare ga Shinkoku desu ga, Shuushoku shite Mitara Taiguu Iishi, Shachou mo Tsukaima mo Kawaikute Saikou desu! - Vol. 4 Ch. 22…

Dex-chan lover
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
10,556
A fine addition to my harem collection...

Funnily enough I was in the middle of studying for my Macro test.

I know you two are being sarcastic, but it should be noted that Keynesian Economics still rely on a market economy to keep it working properly, hence why it wouldn't work under a socialist or Communist system where the means of production are owned by the state. This is because Keynesian Economics relies of Government spending to stimulate market activities to keep money flowing and demand for goods up. @coffeemilk @Koolio
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
33
@Tamerlane Better study more for that Macro test, because Keynesian economics will work in any economy with a market component, whether the means of production are owned by the state or by private entities. All Keynesian stimulus requires is government spending to increase the money in people's hands so they are less inclined to save and more inclined to spend. As a practical matter, most economies are mixed economies, neither completely planned and controlled via government intervention, nor completely laissez-faire capitalist market economies, neither entirely public nor entirely private. Like the MC's home town!
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Messages
1,207
I don't get why Franz lied to that guy like that.

We already know the true way to reduce deflation is by fucking your little sister (blood related or not).
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
10,556
Well it depends what you're referring to.

Keynesianism specifically believes that an increase of the supply of money could solve a deflation if that money circulates through the economy well enough, as it will promote households and businesses to take out loans to invest as well as increasing disposable income, allowing the market to close a recessionary gap if it is severe enough.

Marxism rejects this system because it believes profit and holding the means of production from the workers is fundamentally unethical, and so it believes that by taking these risks, reinvesting or taking loans, it is fundamentally exploiting the proletariat, which goes against how the Keynesian system functions as it depends on these institutions to create ripples within the economy to stimulate spending. Hence why when nations like the Soviet Union or Maoist China tended to spend great amounts of money trying to jump start their economies, those outside of the party typically never saw these funds go to them and it would lead to, in the USSR's case, bankruptcy and collapse, whereas China resulted in high death tolls.

In terms of if most economics are mixed, capitalist, or socialist, the answer is complicated. Technically, most economics through the world are traditional, as third world nations have not reached the point of industrial and productive efficiency due to internal strife, conflict over resources, and lack of human development, and so it is difficult to properly categorize them. Fundamentally I think it's a false dichotomy to say that just because a system isn't purely Laissez Faire and that there are regulations on the market then that means it is inherently mixed, as it both excludes other systems such as Mercantilism or Feudalism, and it ignores the fact that government will always have a role in the market as it is both a part of consumption, GDP, and it circulates the money throughout the system. This is not socialist in nature, in both the sense of Marxist socialism, which seeks the complete ownership of the means of production by the workers and that resources such as land, labor, and capital, be owned by everyone, and other forms of socialism that have existed such as Incan Socialism, which did not seek social or economic equality in the slightest, and (arguably) Right-Wing forms of socialism, such as certain Fascist states appropriating businesses that did not conform to their ideological or political messages. To say most economies are mixed is a bit of an oversimplification.

But that's just the history buff in me ranting, feel free to ignore this message because I'm a giant nerd.
@coffeemilk
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
10,556
The Timurid Empire was nothing if not one of the best economies of the time, though that's not saying much given how the whole world was in a pretty shitty mess at the time, and really the unification of the Mongol successors along the Silk Road made all of them pretty stinkin' rich...

The only one that surpassed those fuckers until the Age of Discovery in the post-Black Death Europe was probably the Mali, though they weren't the powerhouse they had been under the early Mansas, specifically Mansa Musa I... @Amoorhen
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
33
@Tamerlane Your description of Keynesian Economics doesn't really get to the heart of why increasing the supply of money could solve a deflationary crisis.

The reason for a deflationary spiral, where the prices continue to decrease, is because of a lack of aggregate demand. There aren't as many spenders in the economy as there are savers. When everyone is savers, and no one is spending, prices continue to plummet.

Then how does increasing the supply of money solve the problem? You can increase the supply of money in the economy by, for example, recapitalizing banks by giving them large no interest loans or giving tax cuts to the rich. We have evidence that neither of those ways of increasing the money supply results in either an increase in the velocity of money or an increase in aggregate demand in any appreciable amount. In a deflationary economy, banks don't take risks, because the longer they sit on money, the more valuable it becomes. The rich person may buy an extra yacht, or they may not. Since they're rich, they may sit on the extra money just like the banks.

That's why thinking about it in terms of the money supply is the wrong approach. The question to really ask is why is there a drop in aggregate demand? Why aren't there more spenders/why is everyone saving? In a classic deflationary crisis, there is massive unemployment. People are out work, they don't have money to spend, so they stop buying. Because they stop buying, prices are cut, more people end up losing their jobs, and the spiral continues downward.

Keynes's key insight was that the government could step in and be the buyer of last resort. If there is a lack of aggregate demand, the government can step in and spend money buying stuff. Not only that, but if the reason why people aren't spending is because they're out of a job, the government can give them one. That has the added effect of adding more spenders back into the market, and has multiplicative effects on increasing aggregate demand.

Increasing the money supply, by itself, in insufficient to defeat a deflationary spiral. That's because distribution matters. Increasing the amount of money in the hands of people most likely to spend it is how Keynesian stimulus works. If people have enough money in their hands, they change from being savers (because they don't have enough money on hand) to being spenders, which is what you need people to do to increase aggregate demand.

Basically, you have to just give money to poor people. That is Keynesian economics greatest prescription, and ultimately the reason why it has been opposed by conservative politicians since the 1930s.
 
Active member
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
459
@knecht
Finally, someone gets it!
To clarify to others: While increasing taxes would reduce the buying power of one part of the population, that would increase the buying power of the educators and the welfare workers. So the overall demand would stay the same and there would be no need to cut prices, thus no deflation.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top