Watashi wo Tabetai, Hitodenashi - Ch. 57 - A Mismatched Matching

[Prismatic-chan]

this is required to drive the plot forward, i get that.
let's see how it turns out.

 

[UdenEmpati]

Why would she assume Hinako wants Shiori's death?

Shiori's a monster. Azami just detailed how Shiori ate humans from her old village offered to her as tribute, solidifying her monstrous and inhuman nature--which Azami then reinforced about herself.

And, Azami already insinuated that Shiori's whims were responsible for Hinako being alone after her family died. Without Shiori's blood, Hinako would have perished alongside them instead of healing.

So Azami is under the impression Hinako must surely bear a grudge against her fishwife, as she's likely incapable of understanding that Hinako, still very much human where Azami is arguably not (having lost her humanity in her longevity), can love Shiori and/or at least not want her dead.

 

[UdenEmpati]

Gonna be honest. She really doesn't need to be in this story at all. At some point you need some levity from this constant drama. The story is downright suffocating.
And she's so stupid too.

What is your argument for Azami being stupid? I could see narrowminded or singleminded, maybe, but "stupid" seems unfair.

Also, Azami is Hinako's counterpart. She's Shiori's first mistake, showing the Mermaid's potential for growth and change over time. So as a story element I'd argue she's kind of essential in the arcs of the main pair and how they both change from the start of the narrative.

 

[deathpigeon]

Gonna be honest. She really doesn't need to be in this story at all. At some point you need some levity from this constant drama. The story is downright suffocating.
And she's so stupid too.

Azami is extremely important to the story thematically. The story is deeply about the desire for death.

Where Hinako turns her suffering inwards and wants to die, Azami turns it outwards and wants Shiori to die, but both are seeking death as a solution to their suffering. And that's something the story is trying to examine and is critical of.

 

[SrNevik]

Azami is extremely important to the story thematically. The story is deeply about the desire for death.

Where Hinako turns her suffering inwards and wants to die, Azami turns it outwards and wants Shiori to die, but both are seeking death as a solution to their suffering. And that's something the story is trying to examine and is critical of.

That person wants to read some of the other wholesome, light-hearted, low stress series. I'm not sure what they've been reading to even say that. An important figure to both main characters' past and future doesn't need to be here and the series should have a break from its central drama? That's silly. It's almost to the level of a comment that complained "My Sisters Best Friend, My Lover," wasn't lovey dovey enough, or those who used to complain this series wasn't developing romance fast enough.

 

[Kitsune_115]

This might be the most proactive I have seen Hinako so far

 

[OnewingedMasios]

Gonna be honest. She really doesn't need to be in this story at all. At some point you need some levity from this constant drama. The story is downright suffocating.
And she's so stupid too.

I can understand, and to an extent agree with, the argument of levity; however, in regards to Azami she is actually extremely important as her role is to be Hinako's foil which while not only until now unfilled it is only truely fillable with the turning point of Hinako's desire to live or not which was exactly when Atami was properly introduced.

The entire purpose of her char is to show to Hinako, and by extension us, what Hinako could have become. Azami at her core is just like Hinako: is filled with a wish to die after losing everything and the pain of that loss is a wound that can not heal (which Azami even talks about here with "while the bleeding stopped the pain never went away" which is a not even subtle way of depicting grief. Just swap out bleeding for tears and if becomes extremely apparent "while the tears stopped the pain never went away") that traps her in the past unable to move forward with the reason she survived where everyone else hadn't is because Shiori gave her a healing factor that saved her life. Everything I just described perfectly describes Hinako too.

Finally it forces Hinako to truely grapple with several things but predominantly ones that mirror Azami: how does she feel about Shiori after learning the full truth, can she accept it, and is she willing to step into the light and leave the chains of the past behind.
Azami feels hate and anger at Shiori and likely stems from Shiori seemingly or actually abandoning her which made her attack Shiori and Shiori retaliating which only proves Azami's self beliefs that Shiori cursed her which is mirrored by Hinako being protected by Shiori who seemingly abandoned Hinako until the beginning of the story albeit Hinako didn't remember this primarily because of Azami herself ironically forcing Hinako to direct her negative feelings inwards instead of having an option so when Hinako reunites with her it was largely ambivalent initially and now that Hinako finally is understanding the entire truth she is being forced to choose: be like Azami or reject Azami. Or in other words "do you forgive Shiori and heal; or, do you consume yourself in hate refusing to?" (Which is illustrated with Azami describing the process of healing as visceral and bringing great disgust narratively showing she refuses to emotionally heal despite physically doing so)

 

[onedumninja]

Great offer and all... but she kind of sort of maybe likes being alive now?

Had this poor angry soul found hinako earlier, hinako might've said yes. Whatever it would take to die. Although killing another living thing could've still been a deal-breaker.

 

[deathpigeon]

Great offer and all... but she kind of sort of maybe likes being alive now?

At the very least, she likes Shiori being alive.

 

[SpencerSDH]

What is your argument for Azami being stupid? I could see narrowminded or singleminded, maybe, but "stupid" seems unfair.

Also, Azami is Hinako's counterpart. She's Shiori's first mistake, showing the Mermaid's potential for growth and change over time. So as a story element I'd argue she's kind of essential in the arcs of the main pair and how they both change from the start of the narrative.

You raise interesting points, but I don't see her as necessary to the plot. You can show their growth without needing to introduce a "final boss" so to speak. I also just want the story to stay grounded for the lead up to the conclusion. It just feels excessive to have another antagonist show up and drag things out.

We know she exists as a catalyst to get Hinako and Shiori to communicate with each each other on a deeper level than they have previously. We know that when Azami sees this, the conflict will be over since she can't die. We're just waiting for these story beats to happen.

I love a lot of things about this Manga, but the pacing isn't one of them. I'm not asking for it to move at lightning speed, but it would be nice if it didn't slow to a crawl whenever conflict happens. ESPECIALLY when a new character shows up. I mean really, just be forthcoming with your goals. You're being mysterious for the reader.

 

[deltahalo241]

"In the place of the mermaid, I will be the one to fulfill your wish instead"

"No no, you misunderstand. I said I wanted Shiori to eat me"

 

[irwen]

I'm calling Soldier Boy, we have another immortal here who wants to get rid of this ability.

 

[UdenEmpati]

You raise interesting points, but I don't see her as necessary to the plot. You can show their growth without needing to introduce a "final boss" so to speak. I also just want the story to stay grounded for the lead up to the conclusion. It just feels excessive to have another antagonist show up and drag things out.

We know she exists as a catalyst to get Hinako and Shiori to communicate with each each other on a deeper level than they have previously. We know that when Azami sees this, the conflict will be over since she can't die. We're just waiting for these story beats to happen.

I love a lot of things about this Manga, but the pacing isn't one of them. I'm not asking for it to move at lightning speed, but it would be nice if it didn't slow to a crawl whenever conflict happens. ESPECIALLY when a new character shows up. I mean really, just be forthcoming with your goals. You're being mysterious for the reader.

You say "another antagonist", but who was the first one?

Also, I don't think, nor did I argue, that Azami exists as a catalyst for the relationship between Hinako and Shiori. I said that Azami exists as a counterpart to Hinako, and represents Shiori's past and how she was more monstrous then, and has since found humanity in her feelings for Hinako that she never developed for the first girl.

Azami is the the mirror by which Hinako's relationship with Shiori is contrasted, as well as the themes of death, pain, loss, suffering, grief, and anger. Everything that Azami points "outward", Hinako points "inward"; and we see Azami having become quite inhuman herself in how she relates to her own immortality and her pain and suffering. Something that Hinako could become, depending on how she reacts to the revelations about Shiori's involvement with how she lived while her family died, and her relationship with her loss and grief.

Like, you don't have to like it from a subjective standpoint, but her part in the story isn't unnecessary.

As for the pacing--go back and read everything to now that's available. The issues you see might be the release schedule, and not the narrative itself. The central conflict of Hinako's grappling with her grief has been the whole of the narrative, with intermittent external points of tension that, once resolved, see parts of her main struggle resolve. But I'm not sure I see the pacing issue you describe.

 

[ThanatosKaiAnastasi]

You raise interesting points, but I don't see her as necessary to the plot. You can show their growth without needing to introduce a "final boss" so to speak. I also just want the story to stay grounded for the lead up to the conclusion. It just feels excessive to have another antagonist show up and drag things out.

We know she exists as a catalyst to get Hinako and Shiori to communicate with each each other on a deeper level than they have previously. We know that when Azami sees this, the conflict will be over since she can't die. We're just waiting for these story beats to happen.

I love a lot of things about this Manga, but the pacing isn't one of them. I'm not asking for it to move at lightning speed, but it would be nice if it didn't slow to a crawl whenever conflict happens. ESPECIALLY when a new character shows up. I mean really, just be forthcoming with your goals. You're being mysterious for the reader.

There aren't many things that are "necessary" to any plot. Authors write them however they want for the most part and we get what we are served.
I agree that introducing a big bad is a cheap way to create conflicts. I also agree that this manga always has a pacing problem. I think I could live with these as with the fact that this manga isn't a perfect eternal masterpiece and that's fine. So far, nothing is really dragging the story below my (pretty good) expectations of it.

 

[HansumNapolean]

You raise interesting points, but I don't see her as necessary to the plot. You can show their growth without needing to introduce a "final boss" so to speak. I also just want the story to stay grounded for the lead up to the conclusion. It just feels excessive to have another antagonist show up and drag things out.

We know she exists as a catalyst to get Hinako and Shiori to communicate with each each other on a deeper level than they have previously. We know that when Azami sees this, the conflict will be over since she can't die. We're just waiting for these story beats to happen.

I love a lot of things about this Manga, but the pacing isn't one of them. I'm not asking for it to move at lightning speed, but it would be nice if it didn't slow to a crawl whenever conflict happens. ESPECIALLY when a new character shows up. I mean really, just be forthcoming with your goals. You're being mysterious for the reader.

But one of the major themes is the divide between human and monster. Shiori, for all of her sympathetic human traits, is a monster that has fed on other humans before. It's twisted that the one time a monster so cruel would attempt to save a human, they would inevitably condemn them to a worse fate. Shiori fundamentally doesn't understand humans; the author is directly questioning us if Hinako and Shiori should be together, knowing this. I don't think the ultimate goal is to be the catalyst for more communication; Hinako has already told Shiori that she'd never wish death to Shiori if she were turned immortal. Shiori acknowledges this and states that she'll always protect Shiori.

The question, then, is whether we should be rooting for them. Shiori has hurt Azami so inhumanely that Azami would have preferred to be eaten. This sounds awfully familiar to Hinako's predicament; should Hinako have died instead of being condemned to a perpetual life of remorse and loneliness? It seems like Shiori didn't learn her lesson in sparing Hinako, leading us to the impression that she's ultimately a selfish monster. Should Hinako do the torturous grunt work as a depressive teenage girl in teaching a millennial-old monster about the basics of empathy?

It's awfully easy for us to want the main characters to be together. But I think Azami is crucial to reflecting on why they should be together beyond being protagonists. Can Hinako love someone who might never understand her? Should she love someone who has committed numerous (by human standards) atrocities? Was it morally correct for Hianko to praise Shiori's kind intentions, even if it brought incredibly disastrous results?

 

[UdenEmpati]

But one of the major themes is the divide between human and monster. Shiori, for all of her sympathetic human traits, is a monster that has fed on other humans before. It's twisted that the one time a monster so cruel would attempt to save a human, they would inevitably condemn them to a worse fate. Shiori fundamentally doesn't understand humans; the author is directly questioning us if Hinako and Shiori should be together, knowing this. I don't think the ultimate goal is to be the catalyst for more communication; Hinako has already told Shiori that she'd never wish death to Shiori if she were turned immortal. Shiori acknowledges this and states that she'll always protect Shiori.

The question, then, is whether we should be rooting for them. Shiori has hurt Azami so inhumanely that Azami would have preferred to be eaten. This sounds awfully familiar to Hinako's predicament; should Hinako have died instead of being condemned to a perpetual life of remorse and loneliness? It seems like Shiori didn't learn her lesson in sparing Hinako, leading us to the impression that she's ultimately a selfish monster. Should Hinako do the torturous grunt work as a depressive teenage girl in teaching a millennial-old monster about the basics of empathy?

It's awfully easy for us to want the main characters to be together. But I think Azami is crucial to reflecting on why they should be together beyond being protagonists. Can Hinako love someone who might never understand her? Should she love someone who has committed numerous (by human standards) atrocities? Was it morally correct for Hianko to praise Shiori's kind intentions, even if it brought incredibly disastrous results?

There's also the contrast between Azami and Shiori in who is "human/humane" and who is "monstrous".

Shiori is obviously a monster, but in her time with Hinako, she's arguably become more human-like; whereas Azami, a human who has gained immortality, has seemingly shed her humanity in the span of her prolonged life and her singleminded desire to punish Shiori.

Interestingly, I would argue that Hinako has been helping Shiori understand humans, and how her actions before were bad (wrt Azami). Shiori is starting to understand humans, especially in attending school alongside Hinako. And she has found a desire to see Hinako live, and wants to be with her, because of the interactions she's had at Hinako's side.

Part of the journey that is at the core of the narrative is Hinako's processing of her grief; she wants to die, but is now starting to see how doing so would be hurting Miko and Shiori in the same manner Hinako herself has been hurt--by leaving behind the people who care about her. She reasoned that it was fine, because they were long-lived monsters. But she's starting to realize that it doesn't matter, because in truth they have feelings and emotions like her--even Shiori.

So Hinako is grappling with her own selfishness, and what these bonds she's built actually mean. And Azami showing up puts her resolve to the test, presenting an alternative to fulfilling her original goal.

Hinako no longer feels comfortable asking Shiori to kill her. But, she still seeks her own death as a means of ceasing her pain and sorrow and suffering. Azami shows up, offering her that very solution to her recurring problem--with the caveat that Hinako help her kill the person Hinako has come to care very much about.

So I'd say this is a story about the difference between monsters and humans, but it's also a story about loss and salvation, grief and its processing, and the cycles of instances that persist across lifetimes.

Hinako's story requires Azami because we have to see the potentiality of things failing, and the "what if pain wins" answer to that question being posed.

 

[HansumNapolean]

Shiori is obviously a monster, but in her time with Hinako, she's arguably become more human-like; whereas Azami, a human who has gained immortality, has seemingly shed her humanity in the span of her prolonged life and her singleminded desire to punish Shiori.

I essentially agree with almost everything you posted. The only thing I am hesitant to comment on is Azami's lack of humanity. I'm not sure the author will ever delve into what Azami has been up to since her immortality, so maybe she's opening orphanages for starving children or something lol (highly unlikely). Another aspect is whether Azami is really an antagonist or immoral in her narrow pursuit of Shiori. From objective standards, it's reasonable to want to exterminate a man-eating monster that has taken everything from you. It is almost human to a fault; Azami is the embodiment of wrath. For now, Azami hasn't done anything as cruel as Shiori eating human sacrifices, but perhaps she'll physically hurt Hinako if it means accomplishing her goal.

Interestingly, I would argue that Hinako has been helping Shiori understand humans, and how her actions before were bad (wrt Azami). Shiori is starting to understand humans, especially in attending school alongside Hinako. And she has found a desire to see Hinako live, and wants to be with her, because of the interactions she's had at Hinako's side.

I am very much a rooter for Hinako and Shiori; even if I claim that she is cruel, I understand that as a human. It's repeatedly emphasized with Miko and Shiori that, to them, humans were simply food. How many humans are staunch carnivores, understanding that our livestock have sentience? Miko was able to repress her nature through the traveling monk and years of integration with human society. Shiori is paralleling Miko's journey by living with Hinako.

Part of the journey that is at the core of the narrative is Hinako's processing of her grief; she wants to die, but is now starting to see how doing so would be hurting Miko and Shiori in the same manner Hinako herself has been hurt--by leaving behind the people who care about her. She reasoned that it was fine, because they were long-lived monsters. But she's starting to realize that it doesn't matter, because in truth they have feelings and emotions like her--even Shiori.

If I were to answer my own question of why Hinako and Shiori should be together, it's essentially this. There are only certain lessons Hinako and Shiori can impart together. It is a unique kindness that requires Shiori's persistence and Hinako's empathy.

 

[beThereShortly]

Thank you so much for the chapter!

 

[UdenEmpati]

I essentially agree with almost everything you posted. The only thing I am hesitant to comment on is Azami's lack of humanity. I'm not sure the author will ever delve into what Azami has been up to since her immortality, so maybe she's opening orphanages for starving children or something lol (highly unlikely). Another aspect is whether Azami is really an antagonist or immoral in her narrow pursuit of Shiori. From objective standards, it's reasonable to want to exterminate a man-eating monster that has taken everything from you. It is almost human to a fault; Azami is the embodiment of wrath. For now, Azami hasn't done anything as cruel as Shiori eating human sacrifices, but perhaps she'll physically hurt Hinako if it means accomplishing her goal.

Only bit I will comment on, is Shiori being objectively a monster for eating human sacrifices--and that is that they were sacrifices, willingly offered up to her by the village in exhange for their perceived renewed bounty of food from the seas.

She wouldn't have been eating them, or have ever even met Azami, without humans themselves doing their share. So who's really the monster: the yokai/supernatural entity who simply moved into a cave, or the people who ascribed a miracle to her and sought her favor by sending their own to sate her, and of their own volition?

Hence, the question of humans and monsters being muddied. Azami, Shiori, Miko, and Hinako aren't the only characters put forward that test this concept, and each of their motives, actions, and rationale throughout the series have borne this out.

 

[SpencerSDH]

There's also the contrast between Azami and Shiori in who is "human/humane" and who is "monstrous".

Shiori is obviously a monster, but in her time with Hinako, she's arguably become more human-like; whereas Azami, a human who has gained immortality, has seemingly shed her humanity in the span of her prolonged life and her singleminded desire to punish Shiori.

Interestingly, I would argue that Hinako has been helping Shiori understand humans, and how her actions before were bad (wrt Azami). Shiori is starting to understand humans, especially in attending school alongside Hinako. And she has found a desire to see Hinako live, and wants to be with her, because of the interactions she's had at Hinako's side.

Part of the journey that is at the core of the narrative is Hinako's processing of her grief; she wants to die, but is now starting to see how doing so would be hurting Miko and Shiori in the same manner Hinako herself has been hurt--by leaving behind the people who care about her. She reasoned that it was fine, because they were long-lived monsters. But she's starting to realize that it doesn't matter, because in truth they have feelings and emotions like her--even Shiori.

So Hinako is grappling with her own selfishness, and what these bonds she's built actually mean. And Azami showing up puts her resolve to the test, presenting an alternative to fulfilling her original goal.

Hinako no longer feels comfortable asking Shiori to kill her. But, she still seeks her own death as a means of ceasing her pain and sorrow and suffering. Azami shows up, offering her that very solution to her recurring problem--with the caveat that Hinako help her kill the person Hinako has come to care very much about.

So I'd say this is a story about the difference between monsters and humans, but it's also a story about loss and salvation, grief and its processing, and the cycles of instances that persist across lifetimes.

Hinako's story requires Azami because we have to see the potentiality of things failing, and the "what if pain wins" answer to that question being posed.

My problem with this assessment is that Shiori never had any intention of eating Hinako. From the outset, since before the story even started, Shiori has been trying to protect Hinako. Shiori's character growth is more about her being more honest about her intentions. A MAJOR theme in this story is deceit. Whether or not a lie is justified, or if it would be better to be truthful. Yokai benefit from being deceitful, llying about their intentions. Humans benefit by being honest, showing vulnerability, and baring their emotions to one another. This is a key element of this story, and one of the biggest problems that Shiori struggles with. Shiori can only get Hinako to connect with her by doing things that go against her nature.