We Shall Now Begin Ethics - Vol. 3 Ch. 14 - In Search of an Ideology

[cillbosby]

WOW there's a lot of simplification/misinformation in this chapter. I mean I should have seen this coming considering Marx is frequently brought up as a philosopher himself but wow.
At the very least both Capitalism and Socialism were "equally misrepresented". (Seriously, the cartoonish notion of capitalism's goal being the oppression of the poor and socialism's goal being the creation of a lovey-dovey kindergarten utopia are grotesque oversimplifications of both ideologies.)

Also I hope that "Japan is an agricultural society" line is a translator error, because I seriously hope the author doesn't believe Japan could in any way still be considered an "agricultural society". Also the implication that agriculture is what gave rise to Japan's collectivist nature when literally EVERY OTHER civilization that invented agriculture didn't develop such a strong collectivist mindset is mind-boggling stupid.

 

[icantnotthink]

@cillbosby
I mean, in terms of their pure ideaology at its most by-the-book following, communism and socialism are much more kind to the individual than capitalism is. So when talking about it from a ethical standpoint, they are easier to envision working ethically at their peak than capitalism. A lot of capitalism requires that some people be above others, financially or otherwise, to exist (not even deserving position based on ability, like in a meritocracy). A company and its leaders can not exist without workers who will certainly earn less, work more, and live a harder life. In a purely hypothetical situation, communism would have the proletariat all on equal footing. Now, this isn't to say Communism is without fault. As I've stated before there is less incentive for innovation other than 'from the goodness of one's heart to desire for life to be easier for others' and humans tend to selfish/egocentric and not care about others. Additionally, because of communism is also very easy to corrupt. All it really takes is a group of bad actors in a position of power to turn a theoretical near-utopian communist society into a authoritarian, fascist dictatorship.

 

[megumon]

Commies triggered lul, great chapter you can really see the personalities bubbling out of the girls through the art

 

[solchimes]

So anyway, after following All Out for ages, it's nice to see the artist drawing more girls.

 

[IJustMadeThisToComment]

Oh god,oh fuck.
Page 1 and it's already hitting too close to home.

Edit:I'm not one to say big brain words. But all I know is that I feel enlightened.
(I'm pretty sure some of that ideology stuff was drilling into my brain.)

Edit 2:I think this chapter was where I started to believe strongly in individualism.

 

[Normaltaro]

similar manga to this? like not exactly teacher student relations per se. but where cool concepts are introduced like this?

 

[Aoitenshi]

DEEP!

 

[DirkHardpeck]

Wow, I can't believe Sensei is a Tankie

 

[AlmondMagnum]

That was the first chapter I found completely unconvincing.

 

[RexNemorensis]

And of course, the comments section became a dumpster fire.

 

[Lolipop_Candy]

People misunderstand about Socialism / Communism incuding Karl Marx & Vladimir Lenin.
Socialism / Communism point is about working together in community / society without anyone owning / forcing their power to community. People have the same right in the society including in the government if we look at what the manga picture that.

What people know about Socialism / Communism is actually Marxism & Leninism which is deviates from what Socialism intends. Thus, Lenin's communism forcing people to do what the government wants to do which is the real Capitalism intended, so in Marxism & Leninism, the leader is the capital of the society.

In other works, Capitalism is about centralized the owner of the land and property where it is also deviates in the government system area. Because in Capitalism government, there is democracy which should be owned by Socialism.

So, in summary. Both ideology works properly in people's society but in government system, they use the opposite ideology. That's why I see these two ideogy clashing is funny

 

[SightWarden]

*Sees politics being mentioned*
*sees 70 comments*
Yeah, I will pass on this comment section.

 

[VawX]

Just mute the group, ignoring is the best medicine mmm...

 

[Strela]

>mentioning socialism
Oh shit here comes the know it all aKshUalLy warriors that will burn the comment sections

 

[gronkle]

>muh human nature
>muh starvation
>muh innovation

No, attempts to create communism are immoral because it necessitates murderous conflict and enforces conformity with the same murderous intent. The individual is crushed by the group, in a quite literal way. Anyone not wanting to be subsumed by group identity is dehumanised, because they are not entitled to the rights you have, and the rights you have are "human rights". They are counter revolutionary, a traitor to the people, working in the interests of the evil bourgeoisie. To ensure collective participation, conformity must be strictly enforced, with violence and threat of violence. To produce enough goods for the collective, everyone must work to their limits. Anyone suspected of being lazy is shamed, ostracised, deprived, murdered. Anyone suspected of having sympathies for the ostracised and marginalised must also be ostracised and marginalised before that sentiment takes root, collective punishment becomes rife to instil collective resentment of the individual. A worse fate befalls anyone who considers themselves (or is considered) an "owner" of property or land. They are usually murdered, but at best are shamed and ostracised to the extent of deliberate deprivation.

And that's just for their own people. Outside enemies must be treated with hostility, because they are not contributing to your own welfare. They have dangerous ideas which might bring the whole house of cards down. Communist / socialist nations self-isolate, they aren't begging for foreign influence and investment unless they can exploit it for themselves.

tl;dr: communism / socialism, and by extension collectivist ideologies, don't create misery by becoming corrupted. They are miserable ideologies by design.

 

[Crunchyapple]

>wah groups bad

 

[PantsMan]

The crippling loneliness of being Norway.

 

[LadyCherry]

lmao teach is cursed by the gods to only say "let's meet again in the time of ethics" I'm not sure he isn't just an hallucination of people with problems and comes when he's most needed

 

[Deathhappens]

Tell them about The Wave! Tell them about The Wave!!

 

[gundulgondrong]

this is somewhat very educational.. DAMN!
this is a fucking textbook in manga format!