We Shall Now Begin Ethics - Vol. 3 Ch. 14 - In Search of an Ideology

[Atoru]

1) To all fans of communism, I want to remind you that there are differents between socialism and communism, and while ideal communism sounds reall great, it's not achievable thanks to finite resources. An author from my country said that 'We should leave communism among the clouds in the sky, far from our harsh reality on the ground. If we bring it down, it will get altered and its pure ideal form will get destroyed." I kinda agree with him.

2) Putting Politics aside, this chapter subtly explained how bullying works in Japan: if you disturb the class' "peace" then you will get ostracized. Bullying is also a form of stress relief for people, so it doesn't really matter who they bully, just be an easy target. It's also why people will get targeted for defending the bullied, in some cases they even replace the bullied student, and the bullied student will bully them just like the others. It's also should be said that the bullied person doesn't get revenge on them in most cases, not like in the US. That's why bullying is a problem in Japan, while school shooting is a problem in the USA

 

[Nicromatic]

Hm.... will the girl get lynched...?

 

[Clover_Zero]

I understand why she wants to see sensei smokes. I admit it's hot. By the way, that is why you "turn off notifications" on groups! It's easy on LINE (which Japanese use), too! (laughs)

Anyway, I have so many chapters I love in this manga but this takes the cake because it hits close to home.

Putting socialism-communism-capitalism aside, I relate too much on this girl's annoyance to the scary unity of the class and the fact that we're both individualists who got sick of seeing such a thing. I experienced it in both middle and high school, and I was mostly the one being ostracized, though no bad bullying. I've seen illogical things my classmates did, both to me and others for the sake of "group unity". Many times, because Indonesia be like that. Collectivism is truly scary for me, but at the end, I also seek it, like a fandom. Page 30 felt like a slap to me, it's true that, at the end, people do that to make themselves happy...well, I'm just rambling at this point. I'm sleepy so I might not make any sense right now.

 

[indi_n0rd]

@Yourself [removed] and entire thread locked

 

[MonsieurFudge]

This was probably the best chapter so far. I like how everything flowed naturally, from introducing the new girl with her disdain of the group chat, to the discussion on both capitalism and socialism, then finally onto integrating the ideologies discussed earlier into the initial problem. The way things were handled was great as well since the author doesn't push a specific ideology onto the readers, they just present what the characters feel about it and ends the chapter without a definite conclusion.

As always, thanks for the chapter~

 

[musicfreak12]

I really think that the best system is to have capitalist-communist system if that makes sense.

People should be allowed to achieve what they want and own what they want just like in capitalism, because, let's face it, without reward there will be no drive in human to strive better than what is needed

But that person (who are now worth billion of dollars) should also remember that there are people that are not as lucky as them and thus must share some of its wealth to those that need it, because remember, 10% of top echelon holds the wealth of 80% of the world, whether forced or not.

This should be done because people with too much money tend to do stupid things with those money, like buying abstract painting, own a yacht that will never be used, and such. Imagine a world where every top 10% act like Elon Musk or Bill Gate, I think world hunger would be solved in a matter of years.

In a sense, they, the top 10% should be aware of their wealth and position and should "carry" the interest of humanity in their shoulder, if only lives were that simple.

 

[Ubergeek]

@Midoriha as adam smith famously said in his wealth of nations, iphones are capitalism, the more iphones you have the more capitalist you are.

Also lol at the chapter describing socialism as rural and agriculture based, apparently the mangaka's a maoist.

 

[OtHeR-THinG]

Another chapter that close to home!

 

[bonkleboi]

I freaking love this shit

 

[Iamnormal]

shouldn't socialism here be replaced with communism or marxism because "the country owns the means of production" sounds more like communism to me

 

[tblst]

Welp, this chapter's about as neutral as political discussion can possibly get on the Internet.

 

[Binbin]

And that's how the new girl turned off notifications.

 

[ElSuperNova]

@lamnoral
Industry/production or at least the key to generating wealth is still communally owned under socialism.

 

[GodKing46]

Socialism/Communism sounds good in theory. However, it will never work because of human nature. Now, when Socialism first formed, people will still have private property. They will not give up their property to strangers. How do Socialism make them give up their property? By force. Always by force. Now, the force give the government/people in power the absolute power to do whatever they want in the name of ideology. The absolute power corrupts absolute. That’s how secret police, KGB, etc formed. And so, the supposed Socialism where everyone share everything cease to exist. That’s why Communism is evil. It is far worse than Capitalism because it doesn’t give people/government/rich people the absolute power.

 

[Ceiye]

Regardless of what people believe in, I would hope there is a general consensus that there should be a minimum standard of living where everyone gets a roof over their heads, food, water, and education. Like, regardless of whether you are a hardcore capitalist or socialist, it benefits both. In socialism, that's a step in the right direction, and in capitalism, that means a larger more long lasting workforce. Personally I like the idea of automation taking over so we no longer need to work on menial things and humans can focus on things that only humans can do, but I get that that probably isn't realistic and takes more explanation than I care to give in an unrelated comments section. The Tadano from Aggretsuko approach, I guess

Hm... I get where he's coming from with the smoking thing. At least he's doing it out of everyone's way. I personally hate smoking, and by selective morality I am ok if that gets ostracized, but that is because I grew up around people who smoked like a couple packs a day AROUND other people who didn't want to speak up because that might be rude, even though the smokers were the rude ones. Am I talking specifically about my oily, woodchippered voiced, looks decades older than he actually is, smokes indoors in a crowded room uncle? Perhaps. But sensei's being considerate and doing it in private (even though it is still on school property) so for smoking and other things, as long as no one else is getting hurt and he is fully aware of the risks, whatever.

Also yeah I concur, just mute the chat. Like that totally defeats the point of this chapter, but realistically that is the easiest solution. It's not even that bad of a group chat. They're just dicking around. Like if they were doing like those "secret school websites" that are so popular in other school manga, yeah okay. But I get that that dicking around is what they don't want to deal with. It's so easy to just... mute. Hide the chat. There is a bigger problem than groupthink if someone is counting read receipts. If it's LINE, you can't even see who read it.

 

[LysandersTreason]

@ceiye

I would like for everyone to have food, shelter, water and education, but I don't believe there's any human right to such a 'minimum standard of living.' I believe that children have the right to expect those things from their parents, because their parents are the ones who chose to bring them into the world. But generally speaking, people do not have the right to things provided by others. You speak of a minimum standard where people get food... from where does one get this food? May I simply walk into a grocery store and take groceries home without paying? May I eat at restaurants for free? Can I go harvest the crops a farmer has spend many long hours growing without giving him his due?

If your "right" imposes on other people's freedom, it's probably not a right.

 

[bambou1991]

If a community has value, someone will try to seize it, often under the guise of socialism "so everyone can have what they need". Someone has to be on top, at least to regulate resources. That person or group will become corrupt. If there was, throughout our modern world, a case where a group of elite, answering to no one but themselves, that had achieved perfect, uncorrupted socialism, we would live in an utopia.

I enjoy this manga very much, it overly generalize ethical topics from time to time, but the core of the story is still a Japan high school and the students within and the simplistic ethical lessons serve well enough to bring societal issues to light.

 

[nhatanh]

What a surprise, an actual reasonable take on communism versus capitalism in my chinese cartoon if we're overlooking the fact that it still confuses communism with socialism.

 

[pigeons]

Plebs don't know about Kalecki, stop pigeonholing economic thoughts into either capitalism or communism. Marx is overrated and outdated, please let his ideas die. Marx did not invent socialism.

 

[genm9zombie]

capitalism is bad
socialism is bad
if only there was a 3rd option to choose from
an option by a man with a funny mustache that likes raising his hand in the air
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm