Yajin Tensei: Karate Survivor in Another World - Vol. 9 Ch. 59 - Guildmaster

[finalm]

Seriously, that society feels highly unfuctional.

Not really. Feudal society was a dangerous place to live in, unless you were part of the aristocracy or had some powerful friends. Even then, you were likely to participate in armed skirmishes. The middle ages life was hardly kind to anyone, but the MC is a vagabond, with absolutely no one to really stand up for him and thus immediately seen as easy prey for anyone interested. Such a person would also rutinely be seen as a fugitive (which is correct in his case) and therefore not deserving of any consideration. So yeah, him getting screwed left and right is pretty RL accurate.

 

[The_Lamb]

The guild members are supposed to be physicians, not spies... Though there are many illogical things in this plot. For one, a noble heading a guild is unthinkable. I could certainly see a powerful one influencing it from the back seat, but a guild's charter was based on the fact that it's an organisation for commoners and only commoners. Not to mention, it would be seen as beneath a noble to directly work with said commoners. Also, having someone who does not hold a trade appropriate for the given guild join would never be accepted. The other members would tear the guildmaster a new one for even suggesting it.

As a note about the translation, the guild and the members use 薬師, sounded as kusushi, which various sources translate as doctor, physician or pharmacist. While it seems a bit odd that they're almost militarised, it wasn't unusual for medieval guilds that started as monopolistic bodies for tradesmen to become so successful that they evolved into something broader and more aligned with civic governance. If they're rich enough to afford soldiers, it'd be silly not to, at least in Yajin's world where violence is the first tool everyone reaches for.
Also, the guildmaster is only the third son, so he has two older brothers. Since the second brother is the spare, Edwardo probably needs to make his own power outside of his families noble authority. Having control over the medical systems probably gives him a lot of clout in the city.

 

[Doomer]

if he gives up all his secrets and then just leaves town without any revenge i might just drop this.

 

[Kireato]

I feel that Yajin just straight up declining the offer was a mistake; he should have listed his concerns and then guided the conversation towards an outcome that was acceptable for him with the knowledge that the Physician's guild wants the knowledge on how to gather the famour herb. Instead, by declining, the ball was sent right back to the guildmaster's camp who could proceed with another demand while implying that refusal for that would not be acceptable. Even then, he could have accepted while setting a condition that the adventurer's guild should be involved for these negotiations (through a request to the adventurer's guild or something). There weren't any details on what form gratitude from the physician's guild would entail.

Yajin understands the importance of intel for an adventurer, so he really should have been trying to ask about how they had learned that he was the one who had delivered the famour herb, and then tried to guide the conversation towards something like having a deal made between the adventurer's guild and the physician's guild so that, if a deal is reached, it will have the approval of both guilds and he won't have to worry about reprisal from either side. Though there is always the danger that if a deal falls through (if the adventurer's guild feels that they have a good hand, they might be too greedy) then he'll still be in danger, but since the guildmaster offered to poach him, I think Yajin had the necessary leverage to make both guilds reach a compromise.

Yajin mentioned the adventurer's guild wouldn't take it lightly for him to get poached by the physician's guild, but isn't there the same issue with an adventurer's knowledge being poached? Maybe the adventurer's guild has a more hands-off approach to their guildmembers in terms of getting their knowledge?

Well, we'll see next chapter who these two guys are, but there sure are a lot of people interested in Yajin. He sure has trouble keeping a low profile. XD

 

[Ironclad]

I feel that Yajin just straight up declining the offer was a mistake; he should have listed his concerns and then guided the conversation towards an outcome that was acceptable for him with the knowledge that the Physician's guild wants the knowledge on how to gather the famour herb. Instead, by declining, the ball was sent right back to the guildmaster's camp who could proceed with another demand while implying that refusal for that would not be acceptable. Even then, he could have accepted while setting a condition that the adventurer's guild should be involved for these negotiations (through a request to the adventurer's guild or something). There weren't any details on what form gratitude from the physician's guild would entail.

Yajin understands the importance of intel for an adventurer, so he really should have been trying to ask about how they had learned that he was the one who had delivered the famour herb, and then tried to guide the conversation towards something like having a deal made between the adventurer's guild and the physician's guild so that, if a deal is reached, it will have the approval of both guilds and he won't have to worry about reprisal from either side. Though there is always the danger that if a deal falls through (if the adventurer's guild feels that they have a good hand, they might be too greedy) then he'll still be in danger, but since the guildmaster offered to poach him, I think Yajin had the necessary leverage to make both guilds reach a compromise.

Yajin mentioned the adventurer's guild wouldn't take it lightly for him to get poached by the physician's guild, but isn't there the same issue with an adventurer's knowledge being poached? Maybe the adventurer's guild has a more hands-off approach to their guildmembers in terms of getting their knowledge?

Well, we'll see next chapter who these two guys are, but there sure are a lot of people interested in Yajin. He sure has trouble keeping a low profile. XD

You're underestimating the influence of nobles. No if he signed anything like an exclusivity contract, they could outright ban him from taking adventurer guild quests in the entire country.

 

[finalm]

As a note about the translation, the guild and the members use 薬師, sounded as kusushi, which various sources translate as doctor, physician or pharmacist. While it seems a bit odd that they're almost militarised, it wasn't unusual for medieval guilds that started as monopolistic bodies for tradesmen to become so successful that they evolved into something broader and more aligned with civic governance. If they're rich enough to afford soldiers, it'd be silly not to, at least in Yajin's world where violence is the first tool everyone reaches for.

You're thinking of a different time period. Yes, powerful guilds began to transform to a sort of local authority centers at the beggining of the reinessance, particularily in Italian city-states like Florence or Venice. In the middle ages proper they were rather limited in influence, having a standing force would not be realistic, though a few bodyguards would be overlooked.

Also, the guildmaster is only the third son, so he has two older brothers. Since the second brother is the spare, Edwardo probably needs to make his own power outside of his families noble authority. Having control over the medical systems probably gives him a lot of clout in the city.

It would make some sense if he was not the official guildmaster, but someone who sponsored one for example. I am not aware of any historical example of a noble being a guild member, it would certainly be an embarrasment to his name and I don't think he'd be allowed to join due to the nature of the organisation. By the way, the sons of nobility generally did not have the freedom to just choose whatever activity they liked. The father decided on whom would be heir (usually by seniority) and who would do what. The second in line would usually be made an officer in the military, the third and any subsequent sent to the priesthood.

 

[zenyo]

Seems like in this world everybody love to scare off or kill the golden goose...

 

[Big_Boss]

mc usually don't hesitate to kill and abandon the place, but now he become complacent why is that?

Cause he's waiting for gear that he used pretty much all his money on? Do you read the chapter?

 

[The_Lamb]

You're thinking of a different time period. Yes, powerful guilds began to transform to a sort of local authority centers at the beggining of the reinessance, particularily in Italian city-states like Florence or Venice. In the middle ages proper they were rather limited in influence, having a standing force would not be realistic, though a few bodyguards would be overlooked.

There were guilds in 12th century London, and the word guild itself stems from the Saxon for payment (gilden). Sometimes they're called companies, or other names. Similar bodies to guilds existed during the Roman period, and actually in Rome firemen were forbidden from forming a guild because it was viewed as having too great a potential for civic power. An example of the power of medieval guilds in England is the term "baker's dozen", because a baker who sold an underweight dozen could be evicted from his town or city and forbidden from his livelihood (or worse).
The London Guildhall (which I've been to) was built in the 1400s, but on the site of a pre-existing guildhall from likely the 12th century. These people had huge civic power, essentially electing the mayors and running the city infrastructure. They definitely had manpower.

It would make some sense if he was not the official guildmaster, but someone who sponsored one for example. I am not aware of any historical example of a noble being a guild member, it would certainly be an embarrasment to his name and I don't think he'd be allowed to join due to the nature of the organisation. By the way, the sons of nobility generally did not have the freedom to just choose whatever activity they liked. The father decided on whom would be heir (usually by seniority) and who would do what. The second in line would usually be made an officer in the military, the third and any subsequent sent to the priesthood.

I think you're right about this though, guilds were for professionals, ie, men who earned their money rather than those born to it.

 

[finalm]

There were guilds in 12th century London, and the word guild itself stems from the Saxon for payment (gilden). Sometimes they're called companies, or other names. Similar bodies to guilds existed during the Roman period, and actually in Rome firemen were forbidden from forming a guild because it was viewed as having too great a potential for civic power. An example of the power of medieval guilds in England is the term "baker's dozen", because a baker who sold an underweight dozen could be evicted from his town or city and forbidden from his livelihood (or worse).
The London Guildhall (which I've been to) was built in the 1400s, but on the site of a pre-existing guildhall from likely the 12th century. These people had huge civic power, essentially electing the mayors and running the city infrastructure. They definitely had manpower.

I concur that guilds were powerful, they had a state-sancioned monopoly on a particular trade or market, so they could only grow in power as long as that was true. However, having manpower and influence is not quite the same as having an actual armed force. Whatever fuedal lord that ruled the territory would not let that fly a the time.

 

[The_Lamb]

I concur that guilds were powerful, they had a state-sancioned monopoly on a particular trade or market, so they could only grow in power as long as that was true. However, having manpower and influence is not quite the same as having an actual armed force. Whatever fuedal lord that ruled the territory would not let that fly a the time.

I think that is somewhat shown in the chapter though. The armsmen seem to be household men from Astor who are loyal to Edwardo personally, whereas the guild heavies were in 'plain clothes'.

Well, we'll see next chapter who these two guys are, but there sure are a lot of people interested in Yajin. He sure has trouble keeping a low profile. XD

My prediction for the next chapter is that the skinny guy is standing in front of Yajin, the fat guy to his left, and there's a mystery guy to his right who is speaking the words but hasn't yet been shown.

 

[Kanade0021]

Thanks for the translation!

 

[Chizan]

When the inevitable anime adaptation drops, I don't know what studio picks it but I utterly hope it won't be GoHands. As is the unfortunate fate of Exiled Heavy Knight, another of my favorite mangas...

 

[subliminal]

When the inevitable anime adaptation drops, I don't know what studio picks it but I utterly hope it won't be GoHands. As is the unfortunate fate of Exiled Heavy Knight, another of my favorite mangas...

GodHands has fallen...


I learn so much about medieval history when I lurk here, I'm just surprised thery don't know how to make wooden barrels.

 

[finalm]

I think that is somewhat shown in the chapter though. The armsmen seem to be household men from Astor who are loyal to Edwardo personally, whereas the guild heavies were in 'plain clothes'.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about - the guild having some thugs in their pocket for less civil dealings would not be strange, but that's not official manpower (they're not members and the organisation would most likely deny association) nor an armed force.

 

[n3na3]

mc usually don't hesitate to kill and abandon the place, but now he become complacent why is that?

leaving a trail of dead bodies behind every step you take is not really a good reputation

 

[nobody2002]

Poor Yajin. Dude can't ever catch a break.

Thanks for the upload.

 

[finalm]

I learn so much about medieval history when I lurk here, I'm just surprised thery don't know how to make wooden barrels.

They do, they built that base themselves, after all. The tip Yajin gave them was a tanning drum which is an invention from the industrial revolution. That's the thing, actually - they were useful, because the rotation was handled by machinery. Even if they make a great wooden drum, it's usefulness is debatable, since they'd have to rotate it by hand (probably some pulley system). This greatly limits the possible capacity, as well as makes for a heck of a job, given how long the process takes. Unless you hook it up to a natural source of mechanical work, like the wind or a river. That however is probably far out of their scope and would not be really realistic in the middle of the city.

 

[subliminal]

They do, they built that base themselves, after all. The tip Yajin gave them was a tanning drum which is an invention from the industrial revolution. That's the thing, actually - they were useful, because the rotation was handled by machinery. Even if they make a great wooden drum, it's usefulness is debatable, since they'd have to rotate it by hand (probably some pulley system). This greatly limits the possible capacity, as well as makes for a heck of a job, given how long the process takes. Unless you hook it up to a natural source of mechanical work, like the wind or a river. That however is probably far out of their scope and would not be really realistic in the middle of the city.

That depends how "in the city" their workshop is.

 

[finalm]

That depends how "in the city" their workshop is.

I suppose, but keep in mind that wind and water mills were the height of engineering not only in the middle ages, but also during the reinessance. They were always owned by the local authority (i.e. usually the feudal lord) and used to levy taxes on all grain they processed. They also required frequent maintenence and replacing of parts (they haven't figured out the co-prime trick to gear ratios yet). What I'm saying is, it's not really an operation that would go unnoticed, nor something a pair of siblings can manage on their own.