Yofukashi no Uta - Vol. 18 Ch. 172 - What time?

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Sorry. I just mean like, you give this beautiful reply and all these sources but I just don't think any of it matters because I think the "falling in love" part of the story is way, way more important than the "with a vampire" part. I take what the author has characters tell us about vampires at face value because I think the story is about love and emotion in general so it would make most sense for it to actually be the reason for all of these things. To me that was always the premise from the beginning.
I'm not the guy you replied to, but Imma reply anyway.

The fact that they're vampires isn't just a cosmetic feature. It's had all sorts of important roles to play in the story. Moreover, from the beginning, the story has been interspersed with mystery subplots and the motif of the detective has been repeating since fairly early. Like in the peeper plot, or figuring out Kabura's relationship with Nazuna. This pattern even extend to emotional mysteries, like figuring out that vampire's feelings towards menehara-kun (blanking on her name rn).

Idk. I guess I just figured that the author has been signalling to us to engage with this like it's a mystery, and that characters aren't always reliable. We can only really trust the phenomenon we've seen. And we saw Kiku die in the sunlight. We saw that Kiku was weakened, making her death more plausible. What we can't see is love - though I think Kiku was in love with Mahiru based on her actions, thoughts, and facial expressions, and her love complicates things.
 
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I'm not the guy you replied to, but Imma reply anyway.

The fact that they're vampires isn't just a cosmetic feature. It's had all sorts of important roles to play in the story. Moreover, from the beginning, the story has been interspersed with mystery subplots and the motif of the detective has been repeating since fairly early. Like in the peeper plot, or figuring out Kabura's relationship with Nazuna. This pattern even extend to emotional mysteries, like figuring out that vampire's feelings towards menehara-kun (blanking on her name rn).

Idk. I guess I just figured that the author has been signalling to us to engage with this like it's a mystery, and that characters aren't always reliable. We can only really trust the phenomenon we've seen. And we saw Kiku die in the sunlight. We saw that Kiku was weakened, making her death more plausible. What we can't see is love - though I think Kiku was in love with Mahiru based on her actions, thoughts, and facial expressions, and her love complicates things.
Just like the other guy, this is all true. Totally. But my read is the exact opposite. Love is a weird, abstract thing that is different for every person and that's what the story has been exploring. Everything seems like it's complicated vampire nonsense, but it's all emotion. That fucking love thing again! Lol I've literally been reading the story in the exact contrast as you. That we can't normally prove love, but in this universe it can be proven via vampirism, is a really unique idea to play with and it's basically what I always assumed was kind of...the whole point, especially as the story opens with Kou not understanding love or how to deal with his ennui.

Example: Kou's half-vampirism may have something intricate to do with Nazuna's dhampyr status and they have gone on record as explaining blood being drawn can activate a change, but they also outright say there may be another cause and then immediately show us Kou switching when thinking of Nazuna with the "badump" heartbeat sfx. It happens again after he fights Haruka and finds out Nazuna agreed to a date, he gets a jealous "badump" and then switches him back. This almost immediately before (or after) showing Kiku experience the same thing in the movie theater where she starts smiling.
 
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Just like the other guy, this is all true. Totally. But my read is the exact opposite. Love is a weird, abstract thing that is different for every person and that's what the story has been exploring. Everything seems like it's complicated vampire nonsense, but it's all emotion. That fucking love thing again! Lol I've literally been reading the story in the exact contrast as you. That we can't normally prove love, but in this universe it can be proven via vampirism, is a really unique idea to play with and it's basically what I always assumed was kind of...the whole point, especially as the story opens with Kou not understanding love or how to deal with his ennui.
Part of what makes rich stories like this so enjoyable is that we can have these disagreements and broaden our own perspectives. How others see the same material can tell you a lot about them, and help better inform yourself. I appreciate your perspective, and I agree with a lot of it. I'm not sure I agree all of it, but I see where you're coming from.

From where I'm sitting, Kotoyama has obviously worked pretty hard to make whether love kills vampires ambiguous. I feel like if "proving your love" was the point, that rule would be much more clear cut. We wouldn't have three different versions of the same myth, with different characters making different deductions about what is true or not. The problem is that, if it's supposed to be clear cut, then why did he bother to include all these mixed signals? What was his intent? He's clearly a thoughtful writer who had this plot planned out from start - I think he did it for a reason. Rather than just being a romance, I think it's a romance-mystery. I agree that it's about love 100%. But it's about love in a specific context. It's about disaffected weirdos on the fringes of society exploring the mysteries of their own feelings, and of human relationships in general. I feel that, rather than being about finding certainty in love, it's all about navigating the uncertainty which comes with human relationships. It's about the mystery of feelings and relationships. So I engage with this romance like it's a mystery - which is honestly a lot of fun and really fresh feeling. Consider that the idea of proving love doesn't have to be real in the universe for Kotoyama to still explore it, and the impact the idea has on his characters.

Sort of related, I think there's some commentary in how those who sought such certainty (Kiku, and to an extent Haru) both ended up destroying themselves. At some point, you have to embrace uncertainty in love, because trying to prove it constantly will strain and break any relationship. You can never truly know the inside of somebody's heart, and so that obsession with certainty is fundamentally unhealthy. That's a lesson I learned from experience. I feel like it wouldn't have gone so poorly for those two if proving the love was the goal - rather than an aspiration, it seems more like a cautionary tale. Is proving love really that important, or is it necessary that we find the strength to take love on faith? Isn't faith in your partner a fundamental part of love?

Regardless, the strongest piece of evidence that love can hurt vampires is how their love for treasured objects hurts them. The question is whether a human can be a treasured object, and whether that object can be made after they become a vampire.

Ultimately, I think how the story ends is going to shed a lot of light on which of our interpretations makes more sense for it. With the way things are going, I suspect that Kou will become a detective. If Kou and Nazuna decide that they don't want to risk proving their love, to me that indicates that proving it was never the point. That what was important was resolving their own emotional mysteries, gaining confidence in who they think they are, and becoming happier and more fulfilled individuals.

But we'll see. Thanks for humoring me.

 Edit: Just saw your edit. I'm unsure if the badump marked a transition from state to state, but I have not gone back to look. I will say that makes a certain amount of sense, that Nazuna (a half vampire) could only make Kou into half a vampire. But I also believe that would reinforce my interpretation - which is that the story is about uncertainty and ambiguity in love, the self, and in relationships. Nazuna and Kou both exist in this strange inbetween state, and because of their unique status, there may be no certain way to prove their love. Though the specifics depend on things we don't yet know about half vampires and dhampyr. If it does kill vampires, would it kill her?
 
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I think it's still gonna be a gotcha but it will have to do with how nazuna's mother died and how nazuna was born which is still a mystery.
Nazuna is a natural born too.

Kou is half transformed Morbius.



Akira is the boobs.
 
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I think it's still gonna be a gotcha but it will have to do with how nazuna's mother died and how nazuna was born which is still a mystery.
Nazuna is a natural born too.

Kou is half transformed Morbius.



Akira is the boobs.
 
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RE: Sunlight, I can't think of any vampire media where sunlight is immediately fatal; it often strongly burns immediately, but there's always some amount of survivability; the question becomes how much exposure is necessary to kill. It would be perfectly reasonable based on...existing vampire precedent?...to have sunlight be something they can deal with in short spurts if needed but also fatal if Kiku decides to take a nap in it; or that biting a human you love/holding an item from your past makes you fatally vulnerable to something that is normally just unpleasant.

One thing I think we can all agree with is that Kotoyama has left a lot of breadcrumbs scattered around and the vagueness and uncertainty is a feature, not a bug. Lets just hope he has a plan and he wasn't just leaving his options option hoping to figure it out as he goes!
 
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I had thought it was pretty clear what happened, the confusion and conversation is interesting. Kiku died after turning human from drinking the blood of a human that she genuinely, with absolutely no strings attached, fell for. Her time returned to her and she burst into dust. Mahiru died from the sun because he was in contact with his greatest weakness and attachment from his time alive - Kiku herself. At least that was what seemed to be implied. She, with purpose, inserted herself into all of his attachments and overwrote them with herself.
 
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I had thought it was pretty clear what happened, the confusion and conversation is interesting. Kiku died after turning human from drinking the blood of a human that she genuinely, with absolutely no strings attached, fell for. Her time returned to her and she burst into dust. Mahiru died from the sun because he was in contact with his greatest weakness and attachment from his time alive - Kiku herself. At least that was what seemed to be implied. She, with purpose, inserted herself into all of his attachments and overwrote them with herself.
Menehera-kun doesn't burst into flames when he's with Seri, though. Besides, falling in love is a prerequisite for becoming a vampire. Since all vampires are in direct physical contact with their love when they're turned, making more kin would be difficult to say the least.

I think Kiku fell in love with Mahiru, but it's still hard to say whether sunlight killed her because she was weakened, or because the myth she believed was true. With Mahiru, we can be much more confident that it was sunlight, and maybe the note he left behind was a treasured possession which exacerbated the sun.

I've said it in other threads, but I wonder if when Mahiru asked "did you have fun," he was asking her if she enjoyed her time spent with him, even though she didn't become a human in the end. There's a few different ways you can read that line.
 
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having a new volume cover with Kiku gives me the idea she cheated death :worry:
 
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Sun can and does kill vampires.
Kiku explicitly warned Mahiru of the sunlight.
All the vampires are night walkers.
And the detective used sunlight in conjunction with a wedding ring to kill a vampire.

I agree that the whole thing with Kiku seems implausible. But it's only ambiguous to us, who actually witnessed her die in the early morning sun. Despite Hatsuka's firm claims about what happened, we still have information he doesn't. So, she may not have fallen in love, or the myth may be bullshit, or it could be true. We just don't know.
Gotcha, I thought the sun thing only dulled the healing factor or just annoying to vampires without something sentimental when they were human or when they just turned, mb. Wish we got a concrete answer but whatever, I didn't particularly like Mahiru, Kiku, nor their relationship so I'm fine if either of them aren't heavily touched upon again after this.
 
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Kiku died because she sucked Mahiru's blood after falling in love with him, turning her human and rapidly aging her, Mahiru died because he became a vampire and stayed out in the sun
So you wanna say that it's like barter? One becomes human while the other vampire?
 
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I'm very satisfied that someone brought up the fact that it isnt certain what would happen to nazuna as she is a true born vampire. Also kou seems to be drifting apart from nazuna and having no interest in becoming a vampire, I'm starting to really dislike him. I just really hope this doesn't end with nazuna becoming a lame human.
I think he's feeling a little bit rejected, + he seems like a person who wouldn't want to force himself on another to the degree that he'd rather remove himself and drift apart without a word than talks things out, he did so at least once in his life already, and only exception was when his friend's life was directly in danger. It's very wishy washy, true, but some people can't help but feel they're a bother to others.
Phew, at least I am not the only one who pointed the confusion about Kiku's death.

I think the fact that we dont know if she did fall in love and became human works in an isolated story, but at the same time it is the most important question in the manga, so it just makes it annoying. Tho I guess it is still kinda pointless since Nazuna isn't a traditional vampire.
That's the thing is that irl you can't measure feelings, and the only way they know there is a threshold at all, is because
A.) a bite turns a human into a vampire
B.) a vampire can experience someone emotions in the moment by sucking their blood
so they could come to the conclusion: love =>vampirisation ; all scientific style.
The problem is that (we don't know that, just assuming) vampires don't drink each other blood, and no one witnessed death of Kiku and Mahiru, so neither their cause of death, nor the emotions they felt, can be confirmed, only deduced(just like Nezuna's mother cause of death).
Another two wrenches in the current theorism is that
1.) Nazuna is a halfborn-vampire, probably not the 1st of her kind, but still an undocumented evenement.
2.) Kou's transformation into a vampire is intermittent, possibly as a result of the 1.) point
At this point the manga can go whichever direction they want, because enough is not known that everything will make enough sense regardless. Still it looks like author will avoid the best and worst endings, opting to try to make it the most interesting.
All - this - text
I think, like most things in the mange, the effects of the Sun were intentionally left vague, but we know because of that vampire teacher which was killed by Kyouko, about how hard it is for vampires to die as he waited 10 years to starve.
 
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Ahh, wonder how this will go? If it's a bittersweet ending or not, I'll have enjoyed the ride regardless~ :coffee:


But regardless, thank you so much for translating these chapters! I just recently came back to where I left off from reading this series a year ago and was glad that there were chapters up until recently!
 
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I guess I just never got that we were supposed to assume that's why Mahiru died. Like Kiku was out in the daylight when she led Kou to his mom and I mean, sure, maybe we can start playing "there's a certain AMOUNT of sunlight that is required to be harmful" but then that would just kind of suck.

To be clear, my understanding of Mahiru's death was to act as a confirmation from Susuki saying she couldn't suck Kou's blood because it would kill him. Azami confirms this. It was a mutual suicide because they loved each other. I don't think the sun played any part in it.

Edit: It's also worth noting Miss Detective attacked Akkun at night with the intent to kill him so I don't even think we can use the teacher as reference that the sun provides a finishing touch or something.
My understanding was that what killed the teach was the combination of the ring and the sun. What killed kiku was time unwinding and mahiru died because kiku was his attached item and he was in the sun. The sun alone is not enough. It takes an attached item and the sun to do it. For Akkun the glasses stopped his regenerate healing. From that it serves to reason that items that tie them to their past nullify or weaken vampire abilities. The only reason vampires can go out in the sun is because they are constantly regenerating. If they lose their regenerative healing through proximity to an item that ties them to their past, they turn the dust.
 

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