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I was gonna say, “Hey, looks like the Shoujo ai is here.” But I just realized the tag was removed.
Yoku Wakaranai Keredo Isekai ni Tensei Shiteita You Desu - Vol. 3 Ch. 12 - I Don't Really Get It, But It Looks Like I've Triggered Some Sort Of Flag
- Thread starter MangaDex
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Mommy milkers
You can throw out all debate on sexual identity easily.
We don't know how reincarnation works and this was one of those were she actually had to start as a Baby, didn't even remember her old life at first.
But in the end it remains a standard isekai, the author didn't think hard about it obviously, so neither should you. If you wanna read more serious genderbender there's other series on this site that do explore that issue more.
We don't know how reincarnation works and this was one of those were she actually had to start as a Baby, didn't even remember her old life at first.
But in the end it remains a standard isekai, the author didn't think hard about it obviously, so neither should you. If you wanna read more serious genderbender there's other series on this site that do explore that issue more.
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@skilodracus While @Mant pretty much nailed it already I still wanne add my 2 cents since you gave your reasoning: I actually suprisingly agree that people who are suddenly ripped out of the body they knew since birth especially if they are still young would react confused and scared, and probably be traumatized to some degree, that would still not be disphoria in my eyes. You think in absolutes and that's the issue. Disphoria is a constant specific feeling that you cannot adjust to and you just assume that it would be the same for a GB character. But why would it? Personally speaking, if given the chance I would be at least curious to know how it is to live as a women. Who sais the MC didn't just accept the fate he can't avoid and make the best out of it while enjoying the new experience.
Especially since the character is old and based, why shouldn't he be able to adjust? You say he'd have to been living with disphoria for a long time and never noticed it until he got swapped? Doesn't make sense to me. And if so he'd probably have to be gay at least since the vast majority of trans people are ( or straight if you wanne argue their gender is waht they perceive it is, please no semantics on this). Or have some kind of ephamie once it happens along the line of "OMG I was a women all along" ( and still be kinda shocked which is like Mant rightfully said, just an element of fantasy. You wouldn't question the flying capabilties of Dragon either, you just accept it as part of the worldbuilding of fantasy). So the MC being a-ok with it is just lazy worldbuilding - the author probably has no idea of all this and never intended it to be part of their story.
Especially since the character is old and based, why shouldn't he be able to adjust? You say he'd have to been living with disphoria for a long time and never noticed it until he got swapped? Doesn't make sense to me. And if so he'd probably have to be gay at least since the vast majority of trans people are ( or straight if you wanne argue their gender is waht they perceive it is, please no semantics on this). Or have some kind of ephamie once it happens along the line of "OMG I was a women all along" ( and still be kinda shocked which is like Mant rightfully said, just an element of fantasy. You wouldn't question the flying capabilties of Dragon either, you just accept it as part of the worldbuilding of fantasy). So the MC being a-ok with it is just lazy worldbuilding - the author probably has no idea of all this and never intended it to be part of their story.
@The_H_Guy "some people is so deep down their moral bullshit, or political ideology, they lose the ability to perceive an ecchi manga as a simple product of entertainement."
I think the last post from Skilodracus pretty much confirms you nailed your diagnosis perfectly.
Imagine not seeing comedy as comedy but through some gender-studies crappy lenses, all the time, and anyone who just wants to have fun is a "-phobe".
Man, I woulnd't want to live in those shoes.
I think the last post from Skilodracus pretty much confirms you nailed your diagnosis perfectly.
Imagine not seeing comedy as comedy but through some gender-studies crappy lenses, all the time, and anyone who just wants to have fun is a "-phobe".
Man, I woulnd't want to live in those shoes.
If the author wants to draw a girl into herself, let ‘em do it (not to mention they actually have a background which corresponds to what’s happening, which is extremely rare in these stories). Why are some of you fussing over a fantasy wish-fulfillment character ? Honestly. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to question how the hood, in any which way, shape or form, hides her face to the degree that this manga portrays it as. Though, her face is cute , so I don’t mind suspending my disbelief outside of the occasional, but is it really.
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@skilodracus
Thanks for making a psychologically erudite exposition of the simple concept that:
An hetero dude wanting to be dicked just cause suddenly he got a cunt, is a retarded idea.
Maybe the TL;DR version is too compressed for some brain.
Thanks for making a psychologically erudite exposition of the simple concept that:
An hetero dude wanting to be dicked just cause suddenly he got a cunt, is a retarded idea.
Maybe the TL;DR version is too compressed for some brain.
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Regarding eggs... if you don't live near where they're produced, the price will be higher naturally. "Shelf-time" aside, keep in mind how limited their transportation is. It is slow, low volume, not climate controlled, not all roads are paved, and their wagons have solid wheels but don't have things like shocks/struts - so some eggs are probably going to be damaged on route. There is a risk of being attacked via bandits or monsters with every trip. A merchant won't make the trip at all unless it is pretty profitable, thus the price at the end location will be much higher than what they paid some village farmer.
For those disinterested in gender discussions, sorry please scroll on by. Or move on to the next chapter of the next series you're reading.
@Iskarioth
@skilodracus
You two have your own ideas about what gender itself is that I don't share.
But throwing around "transphobe" towards anyone that disagrees with you effectively makes the term meaningless. Strictly speaking transphobia would be a phobia (irrational fear) of "transgendered" people. But generally that extends to hated/dislike as well. If you are using the term simply to describe anyone who doesn't agree with your orthodoxy, you're simply wrong on multiple levels. Fundamental disagreement doesn't imply hatred nor bigotry.
@Mant
I think people should properly separate "what you are" (the circumstances of your birth you can't choose) with "who you are". That gender is a biological/medical matter, nothing to do with who you are. The obsession with the gender of yourself (or another person) comes from our perception of what gender means. How we're defining men and women. Do we define them biologically/medically, or by gender roles?
There is a cultural expectation that "a man is <this>" and "a woman is <that>" in terms of activities, hobbies, clothing, sexual interest, and countless other preferences. The rigid idea of something being "masculine" or "feminine" - we're talking not about gender, but gender roles and the expectations that accompany them. However gender roles are artificial and vary to some degree between cultures, but all cultures seem to have them. Now not all people fit the (artificial) gender role associated with their gender. Those people whose preferences don't match up to the gender roles expected of them may be treated poorly and also may have a poor self-perception, such as thinking
Now as for the MC, she has the past life memories of a person who had a male body. But she also has 11 years of memory living with a female body - all her life before the other memories awoken (when she fell off a bridge). Both those experiences/lives make Ren who she is today. Her memories don't really have anything to do with her sexuality, but Ren is primarily (probably exclusively) female-attracted. Her current life's memories/experiences
@skilodracus
You can also read the above.
I think that theory is horribly mistaken, and the results of following it are tragic. Which you can see with horrifyingly high trans suicide rates. What you are =/= who you are. Expecting people to conform to gender stereotypes/gender roles leads to this misery. The actual discomfort comes from not matching up to what they think they "should be", and that's tremendously horrifying/stressful feeling (I know from personal experience for a slightly different reason), thinking that you're just worthless... Our very instinct tells us to "fit in" which is pretty horrible when you don't. The concept of "cis" is made up as part of that (mistaken) theory. Gender dysphoria however is real, but it isn't the only type of body dysphoria you know? There are people that think their arm doesn't belong to them, that they are meant to be blind, etc. Body Dysphoria is a mental disorder - which by the way shouldn't be stigmatized as it is nor treated as an attack/insult. I have my own mental issues too. Most people actually experience some mental disorder or another at some point in their lives (often temporarily). So lets get past that point, okay?
Now the brain itself is very versatile, running counter to your views of how brain wiring with respect to the body works. Your body changes a lot over your lifetime and your brain adapts. You grow, replace all the cells in your body, sometimes get injured, and it adapts through everything. We naturally learn make use of other things as though they're extensions of ourselves - such as the keyboard I'm typing on, a controller, steering wheel, hammer, etc. We can learn to balance ourselves on a bike though it is highly unnatural. The brain's plasticity goes even further than that... there are actual camera systems for blind people that feed data through the tongue via electrical impulses. It doesn't work instantly, but in about a month the brain learns to route visual data received from their tongue, and the blind can once again see. It is black and white though but way better than nothing. See... our brain isn't that rigid. It doesn't refuse to wire properly to "the wrong genitals". There isn't a "male brain" and a "female brain". There are patterns in neural connectivity that (usually) develop, yes. But the brain is the same organ for men and women. Another example is things like limb transplants which are now possible. You can learn to use a hand that isn't your hand. It is probably possible (in the future) to add additional limbs and learn to use them too, but there are more hurtles such as the skeletal system. But you think the brain itself is inherently fussy about genitalia? No... not on a physical level it isn't. So that theory is hot garbage anyhow. People with (any form of) body dysphoria do not in fact have the "wrong" hardware. There is no "wrong" hardware. No "wrong" body. If your brain where successfully moved to another body - you would adapt to it - although not instantly.
Trans people are human beings first and foremost. Trans people deserve empathy and support, not hatred and discrimination. To any trans people, I say this:
Now the biggest problem with your gender theory - beyond simply being wrong - is it leaves people following a path to nowhere and looking for something that doesn't exist. Desperation turns to despair, and thus the tragic suicide rates we see. There are many who never commit suicide, but you think they aren't suffering? Very few will find lasting happiness like that. So you're hurting them even with the best of intentions in your heart. If you want to actually help them, we need to dismantle gender roles and all the expectations attached to them. Instead of sending them down the yellow brick road that goes off a cliff.
For those disinterested in gender discussions, sorry please scroll on by. Or move on to the next chapter of the next series you're reading.
@Iskarioth
@skilodracus
You two have your own ideas about what gender itself is that I don't share.
But throwing around "transphobe" towards anyone that disagrees with you effectively makes the term meaningless. Strictly speaking transphobia would be a phobia (irrational fear) of "transgendered" people. But generally that extends to hated/dislike as well. If you are using the term simply to describe anyone who doesn't agree with your orthodoxy, you're simply wrong on multiple levels. Fundamental disagreement doesn't imply hatred nor bigotry.
@Mant
That's essentially the idea behind being trans - a "woman in a male body" or "man in a female body". But I think the concept is mistaken, a misinterpretation of reality.
I think people should properly separate "what you are" (the circumstances of your birth you can't choose) with "who you are". That gender is a biological/medical matter, nothing to do with who you are. The obsession with the gender of yourself (or another person) comes from our perception of what gender means. How we're defining men and women. Do we define them biologically/medically, or by gender roles?
There is a cultural expectation that "a man is <this>" and "a woman is <that>" in terms of activities, hobbies, clothing, sexual interest, and countless other preferences. The rigid idea of something being "masculine" or "feminine" - we're talking not about gender, but gender roles and the expectations that accompany them. However gender roles are artificial and vary to some degree between cultures, but all cultures seem to have them. Now not all people fit the (artificial) gender role associated with their gender. Those people whose preferences don't match up to the gender roles expected of them may be treated poorly and also may have a poor self-perception, such as thinking
The (incorrect and regressive) answer they've arrived at is
and with that they've made sense of themselves... even if the answer is wrong it seems better than having no answer at all. The correct (and more liberating) answer is that <what> you are is not <who> you are. Other people shouldn't judge you on <what> you are (things you never chose like gender, race, nationality, sexual attraction, etc) and should instead judge <who> you are. This applies to yourself internally too... how you see and treat yourself. You don't need to fit into one of 2 cookie cutters. Individuality will always be superior to trying to fit yourself within a cookie cutter, even if you now have 54 cookie cutters to choose from. It is okay to be a unique individual. In short, a "man in a woman's body" is nonsense... regressive nonsense. So too is the current <identity> obsessed movement that defines people by the circumstances of their birth. I think it is tremendously harmful, divisive, regressive, toxic, and terribly misguided.
Now as for the MC, she has the past life memories of a person who had a male body. But she also has 11 years of memory living with a female body - all her life before the other memories awoken (when she fell off a bridge). Both those experiences/lives make Ren who she is today. Her memories don't really have anything to do with her sexuality, but Ren is primarily (probably exclusively) female-attracted. Her current life's memories/experiences
will become more relevant later in the story - when she encounters many of the people from her orphanage. Some of which she likes to varying degrees, and a few she hates. Her feelings towards them have not disappeared nor changed with the awakening of past-life memories.
@skilodracus
You can also read the above.
Or rather... how much varied opinion you INTERPRET as such. There are of course those who actually fear/hate trans people, but I'm not seeing it here. Just people who don't share your "enlightened" (actually regressive) viewpoints.
I think that theory is horribly mistaken, and the results of following it are tragic. Which you can see with horrifyingly high trans suicide rates. What you are =/= who you are. Expecting people to conform to gender stereotypes/gender roles leads to this misery. The actual discomfort comes from not matching up to what they think they "should be", and that's tremendously horrifying/stressful feeling (I know from personal experience for a slightly different reason), thinking that you're just worthless... Our very instinct tells us to "fit in" which is pretty horrible when you don't. The concept of "cis" is made up as part of that (mistaken) theory. Gender dysphoria however is real, but it isn't the only type of body dysphoria you know? There are people that think their arm doesn't belong to them, that they are meant to be blind, etc. Body Dysphoria is a mental disorder - which by the way shouldn't be stigmatized as it is nor treated as an attack/insult. I have my own mental issues too. Most people actually experience some mental disorder or another at some point in their lives (often temporarily). So lets get past that point, okay?
Now the brain itself is very versatile, running counter to your views of how brain wiring with respect to the body works. Your body changes a lot over your lifetime and your brain adapts. You grow, replace all the cells in your body, sometimes get injured, and it adapts through everything. We naturally learn make use of other things as though they're extensions of ourselves - such as the keyboard I'm typing on, a controller, steering wheel, hammer, etc. We can learn to balance ourselves on a bike though it is highly unnatural. The brain's plasticity goes even further than that... there are actual camera systems for blind people that feed data through the tongue via electrical impulses. It doesn't work instantly, but in about a month the brain learns to route visual data received from their tongue, and the blind can once again see. It is black and white though but way better than nothing. See... our brain isn't that rigid. It doesn't refuse to wire properly to "the wrong genitals". There isn't a "male brain" and a "female brain". There are patterns in neural connectivity that (usually) develop, yes. But the brain is the same organ for men and women. Another example is things like limb transplants which are now possible. You can learn to use a hand that isn't your hand. It is probably possible (in the future) to add additional limbs and learn to use them too, but there are more hurtles such as the skeletal system. But you think the brain itself is inherently fussy about genitalia? No... not on a physical level it isn't. So that theory is hot garbage anyhow. People with (any form of) body dysphoria do not in fact have the "wrong" hardware. There is no "wrong" hardware. No "wrong" body. If your brain where successfully moved to another body - you would adapt to it - although not instantly.
Trans people are human beings first and foremost. Trans people deserve empathy and support, not hatred and discrimination. To any trans people, I say this:
Now the biggest problem with your gender theory - beyond simply being wrong - is it leaves people following a path to nowhere and looking for something that doesn't exist. Desperation turns to despair, and thus the tragic suicide rates we see. There are many who never commit suicide, but you think they aren't suffering? Very few will find lasting happiness like that. So you're hurting them even with the best of intentions in your heart. If you want to actually help them, we need to dismantle gender roles and all the expectations attached to them. Instead of sending them down the yellow brick road that goes off a cliff.
@bk3k. "If you want to actually help them, we need to dismantle gender roles and all the expectations attached to them."
No we don't.
Because gender roles are a natural reflection of nature and both are useful and necessary.
There's a reason if a man is generally expected X and a woman is expected Y, because through thousands of years that's how those genders manifested themselves in reality and that's how things worked succesfully. The alternatives died.
You don't abandon (or dismantle) reality because of feelings, even if we're talking of deep seated feelings that lead to suicide for an extreme minority of people, the same way you don't abandon the use of cars because sometimes someone gets in a crash or driven over.
Nobody assembled around a table twisting their evil moustaches while "assigning gender roles".
They're a natural consequence of nature, reality, and history teaches that if you don't follow nature and reality you die.
Dismantling gender roles is the same as claiming that men and women are equal on every ground: they simply are not.
No we don't.
Because gender roles are a natural reflection of nature and both are useful and necessary.
There's a reason if a man is generally expected X and a woman is expected Y, because through thousands of years that's how those genders manifested themselves in reality and that's how things worked succesfully. The alternatives died.
You don't abandon (or dismantle) reality because of feelings, even if we're talking of deep seated feelings that lead to suicide for an extreme minority of people, the same way you don't abandon the use of cars because sometimes someone gets in a crash or driven over.
Nobody assembled around a table twisting their evil moustaches while "assigning gender roles".
They're a natural consequence of nature, reality, and history teaches that if you don't follow nature and reality you die.
Dismantling gender roles is the same as claiming that men and women are equal on every ground: they simply are not.
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Not a lot to say, 'cept...
Dex-chan lover
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I can see that this group is having fun with the translations. Fuckin died when i saw "mommy milkers" haha.
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Yuri route unlocked, hell yeah. That said, our genderbent lead may have just broken Selena's brain.
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More flowers, please.
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