Yondome wa Iya na Shizokusei Majutsushi - Vol. 2 Ch. 8 - Assault

[littleoni]

@timesen

Spoiler

The bug tamers are the mantis race (I forgot how they are called) that live with the arachne. They are introduced during the forest arc. It's stated that they traditionally tame bugs, and Vandar even asks about it, how come they are the only bug tamers. It's not too important in the grand scheme of things, actually, since the reason Vandar has the but tamer job is, well, questionable from the beginning, it affects weird things, and is later replaced with the "Abyssal" things, which actually does make sense. This was one of the things that threw me off a bit: Vandar equips an uninfested vampire just before or just after, I don't exactly rememeber, the Bellmod episode. And immediately after that episode he goes "Abyssal", as all vampires are abyssal, he can now equip them regardles of infestation. Wasn't it easier to make him go abyssal just before that and avoid the inconsistency? Well, then again he would be immune to the demon's eye ... which is never fired his way, actually.
I'm speaking nonsense again. Back to the point. I actually liked the main story a lot before he went to the duchy. It was well made, the author made an effort of being more or less consistent, and even tried playing with the rules he himself setup: since Hiroto doesn't have a fate or fortune, he is unaffected by them. He actually gets rid of his bad fortune in Origin (this is not explained in deep detail, but the narrative suggests it very strongly), so as Vandar in Lambda he is only affected by what he or someone else does with knowledge or belief of a result. In short: coincidences don't affect him. If you pay attention, this holds true during the initial arc, the ghouls arc and the rebuilding of Talosheim. I loved that part. But once he leaves for the duchy, he gets randomly delayed a couple of times, the characters doing the delay have no way of knowing what's about to happen. And the people doing the happening have no knowledge of Vandar at that point, at all. So due to these delays, he happens to arrive at a village the same day someone gets injured and he can heal them, the same day someone falls ill in a nearby village and he can travel to save them. And due to these fortunate delays, he arrives at the city the exact day that the Rainbow Blades do, and encounters them at the guild hall. What in the holy hell? Ok, let's assume he was not immune to coincidences, it just so happened he never encountered one up to that point. He is still supposed to be fortuneless, why does he arrive at the best possible time in various occasions, not just once? From that point on, the narrative becomes muddier and muddier, the inconsistencies pile up and at some point things just happen. It's half impossible to predict them, and the half that you can predics is that nothing will actually stand in Vandar's way ... Also, very dissappinted when he is revealed to be the Fated One, and not just a fortuneless random guy. A fortuneless random guy was a better MC than another fated one.
It's not that I'm just complaining to ruin the work. I'm ranting because it infuriates me how the author can just murder his work. To say the truth, anything not related to Vandar was very intresting: the history about Vida, Alda and the gods. The explanation of how the reincarnation systems work. The actual reason why the demons exist and what are they. The second war and how the situation came to be. And the subplot of the emperor and the S ranked guy. And obviously the Origin segments. Those felt great. But once Vandar comes into the picture ... it just feels dull.

 

[Nucifera]

@littleoni

Spoiler

Popping in to give my two cents here. Van's charm ability is Death Attribute charm, not Undead Charm. Anyone who has a disposition associated with the death attribute is affected by it, as proven pretty early on by it affecting humans who are suicidal. The Vampire progenitor was born from the literal corpse of Zakkart, of course they are affiliated with Death. The Ghouls were born sibling to the vampires from the twin of the vampire progenitor. Ghouls and Vampires are the descendants of a magical corpse breathed to life by the Goddess of Life. That's why they are affected by the death attribute charm.

The Scylla wasn't affected by Demon Path Environment, gained by Van 12 chapters prior to meeting them (98 & 110), only Orbia was affected and thats naturally because she was dead. He gains easy access to them because Merrebeveil sent a divine message to the Scylla warning him of his arrival, and to welcome him. Regardless, at this point, he was already titled Holy Son of Vida and was given the Tentacle King title the night he met them by Merrebeveil. Once he gained the title, they began to be affected by Demon Path. Note: Demon Path was not limited to Death Attribute either but to anyone walking the path of the Demon (between good and evil).

The Empusa and Arachne were able to tame Spiders and Mantis respectively because of them being the children of Zanalpadna, the evil god of carapaces and compound eyes. They were also ONLY able to tame spiders and mantis, this is stated as soon as Van shows he came tame other insects. Granny wasn't able to get the job because she wasn't a master of insects, but the host of them. She just didn't meet the requirements. As for the equipping, Van gains other equip skills, notably in this case Corpse Binding, which includes vampires. He also later gains Group Binding allowing him to equip any ally of his regardless of race.

I wont say that Death Mage is the pinnacle of writing or anything, but I think the author does a really good job of fleshing their world out and keeping inconsistencies in check imo.

Edit: So I saw your post just a few min ago after I finished this so i'll add a little. The Abyss skill is NOT his Charm or Enticement Skill. Vans Death Charm upgraded to the Demon Path Enticement Skill and the Dark-Demon Path Skill as of the latest chapters. Both from having gained the Demon Guider and Dark Guider Jobs. The undead fell under Corpse binding gained from the Corpse Demon Commander job, and later Group Binding as spoken in the main body of my reply. I'll have to double check Bellmonds introduction but im pretty sure he used insects because he also has Luciliano equipped at that point too, who was human. The author might have forgotten to specify that insects were used but at this point im not even sure it was necessary. Why remove harmless parasites just to add them again every time until he got the Corpse Commander job? Of course not. There was no reason to even specify in event at the very least.

 

[littleoni]

@Nucifera

Spoiler

I don't actually remember the scyla part all that well, but I think you are right, and I was wrong.
About the bugs ... It was said to be a tamer job, period. No matter how or why they got it, they had it and that should bar Vandar from having it. The fact that he even skips the tamer part and goes directly to master is weird too, and then there is the equipping thing that no other tamer job has ... It feels bad.
About equpping random crap, to begin with equipping someone infested as an insect just because they are infested is stupid, no matter how you look at it. But we can accept it, it's a loophole. I read it quite some time ago, and I don't remember the exact order, but the author literally says that a vampire was equipped just because he adored Van so very much, or something like that, and he was equpped while not infested: infested cannot "move" while equipped, but the vampire was describing the experience to compare it to an infested. Breaking the rules. (Also, slimes are not bugs. Defining bugs as anything that crawls is stupid. Considering that the first bug he tames ... doesn't crawl ...)
EDIT: When he picks up Abyssal Guider, he get's Abyssal Enticement. Correction: Abyssal Path Guidance, which works as an Enticement.

 

[timesen]

@littleoni

Spoiler

I actually made never the connection between the fate stuff and what's happening around him. But didn't vida meddle with his soul or something? Gave him her blood and that helped him a bit? I am not sure myself, I can misremember.
But yeah this with the villages saving stuff was a pretty huuuuuge coincidence. Yes, that made me go "Well, okay then...."
But with the other parts like meeting with haremprota and his gang (which I thought was pretty nice handled) and arriving at the scylas right when a murder mystery happens and the war with the pigs, yes you can say those are all pretty convenient coincidences. But then again it propels the story, creates plot and provides worldbuilding. When he just arrives and nothing happens what should happen?
With the chosen one I absolutely agree with you. Why does it always have to be some special person, be it royalty, heros blood or something. I thought it was really funny that he was proclaimed to be the holy son but he was just someone similar. That he basically got his title through his own actions. That he got acknowledged by vida more than anything else. Put a damper on me as well as it got revealed that he was zakkard+champions soul and was long proclaimed to be reborn

@Nucifera Thank you I had most of the details already forgotten

What a spoiler wall we created XD

 

[sircusa]

@littleoni

Spoiler

I don't remember the Ampusa and Arachne too clearly but don't they exclusively only tame mantis and spider like monsters? As for equipping Bellmond, didn't he create some kind of loophole by infesting people with a parasite to allow him to equip them?

I didn't realize that part about getting rid of his own bad fortune and being immune to coincidences. It's too bad the story doesn't stay that way as things do line up too conveniently at times. Hartner Duchy is definitely one of the more weaker arcs even if a lot of awesome stuff happens in it.

I also agree with the Death Charm being too vague and inconsistent at times but it doesn't affect my enjoyment too much since it generally never invalidates enemy encounters (outside of Eleanora) and he doesn't depend on it when establishing friendly relations with the living.

I do like the Fated One trope in this case because of how much emotion and history is involved with it

 

[littleoni]

@sircusa

Spoiler

About the Fated One ... It felt dull. I see it this way: after all of what happened to Hiroto, being a loser on Earth, living through Hell on Origin, and finally finding a purpose on Lambda, he is dropped with the fact that he is the Fated One. That his effort was not actually his, it was fated to happen, anything he has done for himself, and others, is just part of a bigger plan made by someone else and he is just there. I don't know, it felt bad, kinda denying his effort and suffering. If he acquired the status of Fated One, or Holy Son, through his own actions, as it was hinted at the beginning, it would have felt just so much better.
About the empusa and arachne stuff ... It's semantics. The whole loophole thing is based on semantics, and that's a way to do things. You can base a loopholed system on the semantics of it, but if you do you have to be consistent. There is a person with a "tamer" job that hits bugs, period. Vandar cannot get it. It's vague, but it's even hinted that if a job went extint, as in no one having it, Vandar could then acquire it. Bug tamers exist, a master job is an advanced tamer job. Vandar shold be unable to get it.

 

[sircusa]

@littleoni

Spoiler

I can see why you wouldn't like the Fated One trope but I feel like it doesn't invalidate his efforts. Vida predicted his reincarnation but she didn't necessarily know what he'd do. She even failed to protect Darcia with her Divine Message. Vandalieu even questions Vida's willingness to help since he has no memories or emotions from his life as Zakkart.

As for the jobs, yeah, I don't really have a thorough understanding of it. I don't really remember him having many apprentice-like jobs so I just assumed he didn't need them. The fact there exists both Insect Master and Insect Tamer is pretty odd but I just assumed that was caused by how differently the 2 jobs handled the insects.

 

[Nucifera]

@littleoni

Spoiler

I managed to find the relevant portion from Bellmonds introduction "Vandalieu stuffed one of his Worms into Bellmond’s mouth to infest her while equipping both Eleanora and Luciliano inside his body." I believe the author just didn't mention Eleanor and Luciliano already being infested in this instance.

"the author literally says that a vampire was equipped just because he adored Van so very much"

Having just finished a reread not too long ago, I really cannot remember this stance. I think it would stand out to me too.

I found the relevant passage from chapter 133 regarding Empusa and Arachne taming.

"This child is a Spider Tamer despite not having received Zanalpadna’s divine protection?!” one of the Arachne exclaimed.

“Wait, Spider Tamer and Mantis Tamer only allow the taming of spider and praying mantis monsters! They shouldn’t allow the taming of worm-type monsters. And they wouldn’t allow tamed monsters to go in and out of the body!” another pointed out.

The Arachne were just as surprised as Myuze. Based on their words, it seemed that some insectoid monsters that were considered to be untamable like Undead outside the Boundary Mountain Range could indeed be tamed by Arachne and Empusa who had gained the divine protection of Zanalpadna and acquired specialized Jobs.

This was likely because Zanalpadna, the parent of the Arachne and Empusa, was one of the gods who had created insectoid monsters.

It seemed that the divine protections of evil gods and Jobs that could be gained as a result of the divine protections had not been investigated outside the Boundary Mountain Range. It was possible that these were simply considered to be the special abilities of monsters."

To add a little to this, Van's job was Insect User which had the description "A Job that can be acquired after successfully taming a certain number of insectoid monsters. One must have the trust of the tamed insectoid monsters." It can be assumed that Bebeckett the insect sword didn't gain the trust of her insect depsite Bug Tamer and Bug Master Tamer jobs. Thats the only explanation for Van being able to acquire the insect user job which is a higher level job.

I'll certainly admit that the equipping mechanics is certainly a little out there haha. And slimes being insects too lol.

Are you talking about untranslated chapters in regards to Abbysal Guider? Because as of the later chapter (185) Van only has the Demon, Dark and Creation Guider jobs. Here is his job history and unique skills from ch183


Job history: Death-Attribute Mage, Golem Transmuter, Undead Tamer, Soul Breaker, Venom Fist User, Insect User, Tree Caster, Demon Guider, Archenemy, Zombie Maker, Golem Creator, Corpse Demon Commander, Demon King User, Dark Guider, Labyrinth Creator, Creation Guider, Dark Healer, Disease Demon


Unique skills:
God Devourer: Level 4
Deformed Soul
Mental Encroachment: Level 8
Labyrinth Creation: Level 1
Demon King Fusion: Level 10
Abyss: Level 5
Divine Enemy
Soul Devour: Level 4


Edit: Anyways, I have to head to bed. As much as I love discussing Death Mage i've got a 12 hour shift tommorrow. I'll check back again later

Edit again really quick because I just remembered this part of the story. When Ricklent and Zuruwan are talking about the creation of Jobs Ricklent mention that there were many anomalies within the system that were born from either errors or simply not having thought the system through completely before having to seal it. One the instances mention is duplicate jobs such a Knight and Chevelair. How that cultural differences can affect the job system and just about any job can be generated. This is also a decent explanation for how Van was able to obtain the Insect User job, rather than the Bug Tamer job. It could have fallen within different measures for some reason. Though I do believe it was just a matter of Bek not being good enough to get it personally. It's not every day that someone has a skill that makes a specific insect love you, thus fulfilling the trust requirement.

 

[timesen]

@Nucifera

Spoiler

Nice job finding those passages so quickly. Hope your work won't be too stressful when you have 12 h to fight through( on a Sunday no less).
Yeah nothing beats discussing your favorite storys^^
Just put this into spoilers so not to break the spoiler wall combo XD

 

[yohane]

@nunarita pale skin and heterochromia are common dhampir traits in that world

 

[Nucifera]

@timesen

Spoiler

Np! I came back to add a edit rq. Couldn't get it out of my head. You have a great one, and littleoni too

 

[littleoni]

@Nucifera

Spoiler

That part doesn't actually change the semantics all that much. It maybe does explain why he could get the job and others couldn't ... Maybe ... Doesn't explain why no arachne or empusa got it before, since they should have met the conditions at some point, arachne more than empusa. You have to tame them, they literally do. But we can somehow overlook that. In that case, is there no other "User" job? If there is, why is the binding part so obscure and why does it come as a surprise, woudn't any "User" have it? If there is not, why? A heremit once tamed 1000 squirrels (obscure MTG reference, ignore it), a sheepherd could "tame" hundreds of sheep, and over their lifetime, thousands. Wouldn't they become "Sheep Users" and then equip the sheep? Or maybe "Mammal User" or "Vertebrate User" since "Insect User" is vague as hell: just because he tamed a beehive he can equip lizards ... It doesn't hold. It was patched by the author at a later date, maybe originally all tamers would work that way, or the conditions were more unique and that idea was removed? Maybe originally Vandar let something infest him for a very long time until it got assimilated, and thus he gained the ability to equip thing? And that development didn't make the final cut and only the idea was left, but it was orphaned? I won't pry too deep, I just like things to be consistent, and if as an author you pretend to have some kind of rules, adhere to them and don't change them midway.
What I'm trying to say: there are some conditions to being offered a job. Knowing what they are is not a requirement since Vandar wouldn't get any jobs otherwise. Correction, he could if he studied other jobs and then tried to simulate them, but he does not. If knowing them is not a requirement, and anyone gets offered the jobs they met the conditions for, an "user" job would have been discovered at some point unless it's insect specific. It being insect specific is absurd: it doesn't follow any logic, insects don't have any characteristic to them that would make an "user" job something characteristic to them.
About the Abyssal thing ... I don't know, I just remember it that way ... Let me check. Ok, we have different translations. Dark Guider -> Abyssal Guider. I just checked it with my horrible version. They are the same thing, I don't know why it was translated this way, Dark is more correct in this case.

 

[Hadski]

Why do i only remember the dark tone that the LN give ?

 

[Southelgin25]

Great keep them coming

 

[moel]

@timesen awesome!

 

[Wolvenworks]

damn, Sam's daughters are so burnt there's nothing left of their former beauty. it's kinda sad.

 

[Operatix]

Gude chapter yea!

 

[Pokoj11]

Good boy kill them all :3 :3 :3 :3

 

[GrimThoughts]

I’m just happy that these more recent chapters are less depressing lol

 

[captain_crunch]

Going to Tokyo Drift that wagon