Yurige no Heroine ni Tensei Shita Ore, Nazeka Are ga Haeta Mama desu - Ch. 2

[ariel_haymarket]

I'm scared of reading the 287 comments from previous chapter after admin had lock the discussion in Dynasty.

Trust me, they're nothing worth potentially getting banned over. Don't join the seething, whether inside or outside of Mangadex forums.

 

[eviljackspicer]

Me in response to this forum:

PEACOCK HARDER

 

[AzrefReza]

I agree. Indulging a patient's psychosis is one of the cruelest things you can do. People should stop doing that. The more you indulge in it the deeper the psychosis grows until the patient reaches a point of no return and no amount of behavioral therapy will teach them to love themselves for who they are. They reach a point of sunken cost where admitting the truth becomes too painful for them to handle and they have to escape deeper and deeper into an ever-more-fragile delusion as a coping mechanism until it eventually breaks. It's a hideously cruel abusive practice. More damaging than thalidomide ever was.

But hey, it's also profitable as fuck, so it's not like the medical-industrial complex will get rid of it anytime soon. Doubly so when there's so many dipshits out there that got tricked into believing all the big corpos supporting it have motivations beyond profit.

It's a two-for-one sale, really. They make money selling people a lie about "the right thing" and it just so happens that "the right thing" is extremely profitable for them.

This. This dammit! You don’t treat a person’s depression by “validating” that they are indeed complete garbage and that the world would be a better place without them. You don’t treat a person who believes they are Napoleon by giving them a bi-corn hat and handing them the keys to the Louvre. Why should it be different when it touches matters of genitalia?!

 

[Playerbase]

This. This dammit! You don’t treat a person’s depression by “validating” that they are indeed complete garbage and that the world would be a better place without them. You don’t treat a person who believes they are Napoleon by giving them a bi-corn hat and handing them the keys to the Louvre. Why should it be different when it touches matters of genitalia?!

Then do tell what’d be your ideal “treatment”?

But I don’t expect you to because you just want to talk shit.

 

[AzrefReza]

Then do tell what’d be your ideal “treatment”?

But I don’t expect you to because you just want to talk shit.

Wow, even going so far as roaming my other comments to shit on them? Talk about salty…


To answer your question, I’d say it really depends on the level of dysphoria.

If the person is perfectly functional and doesn’t suffer, as long as it’s clear to them that society and people at large have no obligation to indulge in their delusions, well just leave them be. Live and let live, you know. If we needed to “treat” every person who’s not who they think they are, then there would be quite a number of arrogant not-as-smart-as-they-believe pricks in therapy right now…


On the other hand, if the discrepancy between their perceived self and their objective self causes them distress or harm, then the ideal treatment would be whatever works for delusional disorders.

 

[Playerbase]

Wow, even going so far as roaming my other comments to shit on them? Talk about salty…


To answer your question, I’d say it really depends on the level of dysphoria.

If the person is perfectly functional and doesn’t suffer, as long as it’s clear to them that society and people at large have no obligation to indulge in their delusions, well just leave them be. Live and let live, you know. If we needed to “treat” every person who’s not who they think they are, then there would be quite a number of arrogant not-as-smart-as-they-believe pricks in therapy right now…


On the other hand, if the discrepancy between their perceived self and their objective self causes them distress or harm, then the ideal treatment would be whatever works for delusional disorders.

So you have no argument then because the things you said never happened.

 

[NARESH4444]

Ah,yes,when confronted with the oh so simple fact that treating the mental hang ups is a far better long term solution then permanent life altering surgery n' hormonal treatment that can go very wrong...

This. This dammit! You don’t treat a person’s depression by “validating” that they are indeed complete garbage and that the world would be a better place without them. You don’t treat a person who believes they are Napoleon by giving them a bi-corn hat and handing them the keys to the Louvre. Why should it be different when it touches matters of genitalia?!

...they chose to actually where the bi-corn hats and demand the keys to the Louvre,even as their armies perish in the harsh Russian snow.

Thank goodness it's 2025 and the tides are turning back to what they should be.

 

[Dooble]

My mother experiences delusions. They can be pretty severe. It's very hard for her and the people around her. Medicine helps, but not totally, and it causes its own problems. Some medicines are prescribed but turn out not to help. Switching medication is sometimes necessary but can be incredibly awful. And the system often won't believe people; my mother said she was experiencing withdrawal symptoms after tapering off from one medication but the doctors just didn't believe her and told her to wait it out and their only recourse was institutionalizing her until it ran its course, and disregarding our concerns and certainly hers as she suffered through it. And if I had to guess what your political inclinations would likely be on what change to make to the hospital system? Taking away her insurance because she doesn't have a job. If that's not your call, possibly question why right-wing political groups so commonly push in that direction.

You can talk all you want about how to care for delusional people but you don't even understand what medical delusions are like, you don't know how they're treated, and you don't actually care for the people suffering. Your mental model is built off of asylums from a century ago as filtered through jokes and children's cartoons. It's honestly a little impressive you have the gall to really think you know what you're talking about.

 

[MangaMonger]

Solid second chapter. So many manga with crazy premises fall off hard after the first chapter, but this one didn't, at least not yet. I like seeing Misono run wild.

 

[Carn109]

Misono is so based
She's such a legend for looking out for mc
Also its so true that every otaku gotta do their dailies

 

[NotSomeone]

My mother experiences delusions. They can be pretty severe. It's very hard for her and the people around her. Medicine helps, but not totally, and it causes its own problems. Some medicines are prescribed but turn out not to help. Switching medication is sometimes necessary but can be incredibly awful. And the system often won't believe people; my mother said she was experiencing withdrawal symptoms after tapering off from one medication but the doctors just didn't believe her and told her to wait it out and their only recourse was institutionalizing her until it ran its course, and disregarding our concerns and certainly hers as she suffered through it. And if I had to guess what your political inclinations would likely be on what change to make to the hospital system? Taking away her insurance because she doesn't have a job. If that's not your call, possibly question why right-wing political groups so commonly push in that direction.

You can talk all you want about how to care for delusional people but you don't even understand what medical delusions are like, you don't know how they're treated, and you don't actually care for the people suffering. Your mental model is built off of asylums from a century ago as filtered through jokes and children's cartoons. It's honestly a little impressive you have the gall to really think you know what you're talking about.

Unfortunately, arguing with these people is a waste of time. They don't consume any content in their life whatsoever that challenges their view of the world, they are not welcoming or open to the idea of a change on the status quo because they are cowards.
Even if you take your shot, they will move the target and proclaim you missed, either that or they're too stupid to notice they set up a target in the first place. They are ignorant and simply lack the baggage to understand things.

They are going to look at a trans person who wants a different body and/or role in society and call them crazy, you know what they will do next?
Follow some guy who injected himself with 100 different steroids and proclaims himself to be able to teach you to be a "real man", after that they will jerk off to some instagram model who did 40 different surgeries on her thighs.
And when you point out the contradiction they will not understand.
It's more energy efficient to teach a dog algebra.

 

[NIPHY]

I'm a simple girl... I see two people.. I ship.

But I'm not a harem enjoyer.

 

[Everaert]

girl what are you doing reading gb manga if you dont want to see trans people lol

log off and go transition already quit projecting your own bs onto everyone else

What gb tard? He still has a dick
I also had a question about the degenerate credit page, not the manga itself. But yeah, it seems your kind are too slow to figure that out.

 

[Everaert]

Unfortunately, arguing with these people is a waste of time. They don't consume any content in their life whatsoever that challenges their view of the world, they are not welcoming or open to the idea of a change on the status quo because they are cowards.
Even if you take your shot, they will move the target and proclaim you missed, either that or they're too stupid to notice they set up a target in the first place. They are ignorant and simply lack the baggage to understand things.

They are going to look at a trans person who wants a different body and/or role in society and call them crazy, you know what they will do next?
Follow some guy who injected himself with 100 different steroids and proclaims himself to be able to teach you to be a "real man", after that they will jerk off to some instagram model who did 40 different surgeries on her thighs.
And when you point out the contradiction they will not understand.
It's more energy efficient to teach a dog algebra.

On ho. Someone has a different opinion (shock) from the tolerastov
How big is your spoon that you eat so much propaganda?

 

[AzrefReza]

My mother experiences delusions. […] It's honestly a little impressive you have the gall to really think you know what you're talking about.

This is a prime example of why American defaultism is really insufferable. I’m French. Don’t you dare assume my opinions on public healthcare and experiences of hospitals (or mental healthcare outside hospitals) are anything remotely similar to whatever you might have heard about in that Third World shithole called the USA!

Unfortunately, arguing with these people is a waste of time. […] It's more energy efficient to teach a dog algebra.

Now this is next level. You talk about refusing to challenge one’s own opinions by confronting them to something new, but damn, you sure can’t fathom that someone might have differing opinions on one subject without also getting into the whole MAGA redneck Andrew-Taint-asslicking package. You really are one narrow minded fellow.

Your example is excellent nonetheless. Instathots full of surgery are fake. Self-proclaimed “alpha males” who need to get half their paycheck swindled to go work out somewhat, are fake. Trans women are fake women. Trans men are fake men.
Now what to do about them? Instathots who undergo surgery to look somewhat better? Well, leave them be, old age will help them realize that botox at 25 sure was a shitty idea. A woman who’s addicted to surgery to the point of harming herself? Gonna need professional mental healthcare help. “Alpha males” who get swindled by some rapist disgrace? It’s punishment in it’s own way. A dude so deep in self-hatred that he’ll get into debt to pay for the next “coaching session”? Gonna need professional mental healthcare help. A person who firmly believes they have the wrong genitalia but still lives their life mostly happily? You do you. A person whose dysphoria gets to the point of self-harm or severe depression? Gonna need professional mental healthcare help.
Do you see the trend? Do you understand how you can acknowledge that someone has a mental trouble and needs help, without wanting to lock them up and make them disappear from the face of the earth?


Also you too get your reminder that your American political compass does not remotely apply to a widely different culture like mine. And if you think blah blah blah we’re not that different, it’ll only show how little you know about French culture and politics.

 

[NotSomeone]

This is a prime example of why American defaultism is really insufferable. I’m French. Don’t you dare assume my opinions on public healthcare and experiences of hospitals (or mental healthcare outside hospitals) are anything remotely similar to whatever you might have heard about in that Third World shithole called the USA!



Now this is next level. You talk about refusing to challenge one’s own opinions by confronting them to something new, but damn, you sure can’t fathom that someone might have differing opinions on one subject without also getting into the whole MAGA redneck Andrew-Taint-asslicking package. You really are one narrow minded fellow.

Your example is excellent nonetheless. Instathots full of surgery are fake. Self-proclaimed “alpha males” who need to get half their paycheck swindled to go work out somewhat, are fake. Trans women are fake women. Trans men are fake men.
Now what to do about them? Instathots who undergo surgery to look somewhat better? Well, leave them be, old age will help them realize that botox at 25 sure was a shitty idea. A woman who’s addicted to surgery to the point of harming herself? Gonna need professional mental healthcare help. “Alpha males” who get swindled by some rapist disgrace? It’s punishment in it’s own way. A dude so deep in self-hatred that he’ll get into debt to pay for the next “coaching session”? Gonna need professional mental healthcare help. A person who firmly believes they have the wrong genitalia but still lives their life mostly happily? You do you. A person whose dysphoria gets to the point of self-harm or severe depression? Gonna need professional mental healthcare help.
Do you see the trend? Do you understand how you can acknowledge that someone has a mental trouble and needs help, without wanting to lock them up and make them disappear from the face of the earth?


Also you too get your reminder that your American political compass does not remotely apply to a widely different culture like mine. And if you think blah blah blah we’re not that different, it’ll only show how little you know about French culture and politics.

In the topic about challenging opinions: I was talking about the people in this thread, specifically, not about political discourse at large. It is obviously productive to argue in a civilized manner, but when I am making points and the other side calling me retard, it is kinda hard to keep taking stuff seriously.

In the topic of gender or body dysphoria, I find it unfruitful to argue about whether it is or not a mental dysorder. My personal opinion is that unless dangerous to you or the people around you, you should do whatever you want with your body, be it injecting roids, getting a butt lift or changing your gender. Freedom is about pursuing what you want to be after all.
But it's not hard to overview the people I was discussing things with here and see that they do believe that trans people should not be able to pursue surgery, but be made to accept the way they are. These same people don't argue when someone wants to inject roids or have a BBL done, see my point?

You're also assuming I am American, I am not. I live in a ex-colony, for sure, but the kind of ex-colony that got fucked over by everyone else. I'd say my view of the political compass is not at all Americanzied, seeing that I am a leftist and the USA has no "left" from my pov.

 

[Dooble]

This is a prime example of why American defaultism is really insufferable. I’m French. Don’t you dare assume my opinions on public healthcare and experiences of hospitals (or mental healthcare outside hospitals) are anything remotely similar to whatever you might have heard about in that Third World shithole called the USA!



Now this is next level. You talk about refusing to challenge one’s own opinions by confronting them to something new, but damn, you sure can’t fathom that someone might have differing opinions on one subject without also getting into the whole MAGA redneck Andrew-Taint-asslicking package. You really are one narrow minded fellow.

Your example is excellent nonetheless. Instathots full of surgery are fake. Self-proclaimed “alpha males” who need to get half their paycheck swindled to go work out somewhat, are fake. Trans women are fake women. Trans men are fake men.
Now what to do about them? Instathots who undergo surgery to look somewhat better? Well, leave them be, old age will help them realize that botox at 25 sure was a shitty idea. A woman who’s addicted to surgery to the point of harming herself? Gonna need professional mental healthcare help. “Alpha males” who get swindled by some rapist disgrace? It’s punishment in it’s own way. A dude so deep in self-hatred that he’ll get into debt to pay for the next “coaching session”? Gonna need professional mental healthcare help. A person who firmly believes they have the wrong genitalia but still lives their life mostly happily? You do you. A person whose dysphoria gets to the point of self-harm or severe depression? Gonna need professional mental healthcare help.
Do you see the trend? Do you understand how you can acknowledge that someone has a mental trouble and needs help, without wanting to lock them up and make them disappear from the face of the earth?


Also you too get your reminder that your American political compass does not remotely apply to a widely different culture like mine. And if you think blah blah blah we’re not that different, it’ll only show how little you know about French culture and politics.

Oh, genuinely sorry about the "Everywhere is like the USA" thing. I got a little tilted and overuniversalized and did a weak cover with the gesture to rightward trends. I try to avoid doing it but in the end I am still an American and have some of the blinders we all get mass-installed.

As for your argument here, if you look at the statistical evidence, transition helps people with their dysphoria relatively well and much better than any other potential remedy. This is true both of trans people with depression or self-harming tendencies and those without. If you want to make sure people get the care they need, the best thing to do is be kind and supportive, and suggest making use of available resources; cruelty and shame really almost never help vulnerable people and so all that guff from whoever it was saying they bully trans people for their own good is severely misguided. This kind of atmosphere also helps those people who later detransition. The more this is a normal, non-fraught thing, and the more people are given the chance to explore their own feelings and desires and exercise their own choices, the better able they'll be to get help. If a young person is sorting out their identity and socially transitions only to later transition back, that can be a good thing... if the process doesn't involve terrible bullying and hatred.

The popular chestnut that goes around that the suicide rate doesn't go down is misunderstanding context; it's the percentage of transgender people who have ever attempted suicide, and medical transition can't retcon your personal history so you'd never attempted it in the past, before transition. It helps people struggling with suicidal ideation.

If you don't think we're really the gender we say we are, obviously I'm not the biggest fan of that, but if you mean what you say... The best thing to do is just leave us be in peace.

This seems pretty obvious to me, and I've been burned a few too many times of people who like to go on about various things purely as excuses for what is ultimately "I don't like these people and want to be cruel to them", and generally coming from an USA perspective—because we really do dominate the Anglophone internet unduly—so can be unduly quick on the jump to assumptions.

 

[AzrefReza]

In the topic about challenging opinions: I was talking about the people in this thread, specifically, not about political discourse at large. […] I'd say my view of the political compass is not at all Americanzied, seeing that I am a leftist and the USA has no "left" from my pov.

All’s peachy, then! Honestly, I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. The only point where we might disagree is that, if somebody I care about is intent on doing some unnecessary invasive medical treatment because they don’t feel well about themselves, I’m gonna have a long and hard discussion with them to try and reroute them towards mental healthcare, and that remains true whether said medical treatment is injecting weird substances into their body to make it puff out or chop said body to make it look different. I come from a background of depression and know firsthand just what weird and dangerous ideas your brain can get for no good reason…

Oh, genuinely sorry about the "Everywhere is like the USA" thing. […] This seems pretty obvious to me, and I've been burned a few too many times of people who like to go on about various things purely as excuses for what is ultimately "I don't like these people and want to be cruel to them", and generally coming from an USA perspective—because we really do dominate the Anglophone internet unduly—so can be unduly quick on the jump to assumptions.

As I said, my stance on your average trans Joe (or Jane, whatever) is meh, don’t care, leave them be. To give you an example, I’ve got a colleague from a different department who’s a MTF trans. I know it because somebody told me what her original first name was, and that’s the only way I know: I honestly thought she was just an ugly 40-something who smoke way too much.


And so I don’t care, still call her “her”, because to me, she’s always been a (very ugly) woman and she’s physically different enough from her male self that I see them as two different people. And she seems perfectly fine with her life, so why would I care?

Now different example. I once had a male friend, who at one point decided that he was actually a woman, and however I turned the question about, the only thing that seemed to justify the change was that he enjoyed wearing dresses and doing pole dance. And here we touch something that can reaaaally ruffle my feathers: I hate and despise internalized gender stereotypes. Wanting to wear dresses doesn’t make you a woman, just a man who likes dresses, and considering it perfectly OK, that should be normalized. In the end, we fell out of touch because what I perceived as hypocrisy made me profoundly dislike the time we spent together.

And the second thing that ruffles my feathers regarding trans activism is when some of them feel entitled to some special rights because of what, once again, I consider a delusional mental trouble. I’d say that’s part of my French cultural background, where society has much more weight in the balance with individual desires than it might have in America: to summarize it very crudely, you might want to be something you’re not, doesn’t mean the rest of the world has to humor you, especially when it starts treading on other people’s lives. To give a voluntarily extreme example, a rapist is not going to a women’s prison because he’s suddenly discovered himself to be trans…

So I get that there are places and contexts where trans people are treated so shitty that there’s a need for activism, but as with many “budding” social movements, there are also a lot of cases and contexts where the activists get the crank too far (like that person on the first page of this thread telling another to “go transition already”, yikes…) and I have every right to call it out when it happens, even if the general goal of better trans acceptance is positive.

And spoiler alert: I have a very light trigger when MTF trans activism clashes with women’s rights, and more generally when trans discourse clashes with my fight against gender stereotypes. TL;DR don’t explain by transgenderism what can just as easily be explained by not adhering to gender stereotypes. Especially when your “follow-up” is hormones and a bistoury…

 

[NARESH4444]

Still goin' at it,I see.

Still trying to justify ever failing ideas as well.

It's not gonna change the tide built from the bad will,and 2025 has so far prooven to the start back to a more a stable society,at least in the important nation that does get involved with everyone,the US.

And being anti-US also means trying to find some other nation that is just as liberal without destroying things too,good luck with that.

 

[Outflanks10]

Thanks for the translations ElPsyKongroo