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Rina's good, but Irene is actually best girl thus far.
Yuukyuu no Gusha Asley no, Kenja no Susume - Vol. 4 Ch. 22
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I just remembered he's not supposed to be out doing quests because of the academy curfew. Dumb rule for capable students.
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@Rayster to be fair, she hasn't gotten any valuable information from Astley, from his point of view she is just sort of annoying. She's that friend who always seems to show up when you're having your meals, or snacking on chips, and just joins in, it isn't really hurting you that they are there, and they are fun to tease.
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@CountryMage ,
I get your comparison that she's like an annoying friend but that's not exactly the case here given the context, and could very well hurting you (even if not physically) through social influence and authority.
It's more like, she being a superior in your company who noticed you, a newcomer full of potential and impressive knowledge, then proceeded to :
[ul]- stalk you and involve herself when you're working (even if it's your freelance/side jobs outside of the company),
- attempted to take credits for your researches and works (despite you repeatedly rejected her directly and indirectly),
- used her authority power to escalate dramas between you and your co-workers (even if you managed to calm it down),
- pressured, manipulated and blackmailed you through her authority and social power along with another superior who actually doesn't have direct control in your department to make you act in their favor (instead of them taking proper procedures to actually investigate the matter and take actions accordingly with HR, even though technically by IRL laws the contract would have no binding power because it's accepted not in its original T&C by the company already in the first place, even by magically the contract could not bind him too)[/ul]
After all of those disloyal and disrespectful actions that shouldn't be taken against a supposedly-friend, she's just not a trustable and reliable person at this point to believe her that she wouldn't do anything more until she gets what she wants at this point of the story. Given her social status and reputation as a renowned archmage, she could even just frame you for whatever thing for her own benefits and the general public would believe her instead of Astley with an unknown identity and background, how would anyone feel if they are put in the same situation as Astley? Or anyone having a situation with their problematic superiors who exploit shady obscure company rules IRL?
About your point that she *hasn't* gotten any valuable info from Astley, it's already disrespectful enough to him that for she to repeatedly bait and pressure him to spill it despite his direct and indirect refusals. If she's really trying to be a friend, she would know when to stop and where the line is and respect him and their 'friendship'. At the current point in the story, even if Astley has been patient with her, she's already pushing it, which is why I mentioned that some readers have been lenient to her. At this point where Irene hasn't redeemed herself, I honestly don't see why it's okay for anyone to justify her actions that put someone under harassments and manipulations if they don't already know about her redemption arc later.
The following comment of mine could be offensive for some people but it's an opportunity for introspection and self-reflection.
Are people, who defend for her but still don't know about her redemption stories, the kind of people who are used to toxic and manipulative people around them and feel like as long as it's tolerable and not 'gone too far yet' then it's excusable? Or are they the kind that has done things similarly to Irene or toxic people and feel it's fine as long as it's not pushed too far simply because 'we are friends and we should just accept our flaws and not be criticized at all'. I think the people who are in such a situation to think about it for themselves, why is it okay for anyone to treat their supposedly-friend and not get called out for their disrespectful attitude, behavior and actions if they truly want to build a friendship? Sure, maybe some people who are under a toxic relationship don't retaliate, but that doesn't mean they don't mind it though, especially if they are trying to not involve other people (eg: Rina in context) in the drama, but does that make it okay?
I get your comparison that she's like an annoying friend but that's not exactly the case here given the context, and could very well hurting you (even if not physically) through social influence and authority.
It's more like, she being a superior in your company who noticed you, a newcomer full of potential and impressive knowledge, then proceeded to :
[ul]- stalk you and involve herself when you're working (even if it's your freelance/side jobs outside of the company),
- attempted to take credits for your researches and works (despite you repeatedly rejected her directly and indirectly),
- used her authority power to escalate dramas between you and your co-workers (even if you managed to calm it down),
- pressured, manipulated and blackmailed you through her authority and social power along with another superior who actually doesn't have direct control in your department to make you act in their favor (instead of them taking proper procedures to actually investigate the matter and take actions accordingly with HR, even though technically by IRL laws the contract would have no binding power because it's accepted not in its original T&C by the company already in the first place, even by magically the contract could not bind him too)[/ul]
After all of those disloyal and disrespectful actions that shouldn't be taken against a supposedly-friend, she's just not a trustable and reliable person at this point to believe her that she wouldn't do anything more until she gets what she wants at this point of the story. Given her social status and reputation as a renowned archmage, she could even just frame you for whatever thing for her own benefits and the general public would believe her instead of Astley with an unknown identity and background, how would anyone feel if they are put in the same situation as Astley? Or anyone having a situation with their problematic superiors who exploit shady obscure company rules IRL?
About your point that she *hasn't* gotten any valuable info from Astley, it's already disrespectful enough to him that for she to repeatedly bait and pressure him to spill it despite his direct and indirect refusals. If she's really trying to be a friend, she would know when to stop and where the line is and respect him and their 'friendship'. At the current point in the story, even if Astley has been patient with her, she's already pushing it, which is why I mentioned that some readers have been lenient to her. At this point where Irene hasn't redeemed herself, I honestly don't see why it's okay for anyone to justify her actions that put someone under harassments and manipulations if they don't already know about her redemption arc later.
The following comment of mine could be offensive for some people but it's an opportunity for introspection and self-reflection.
Are people, who defend for her but still don't know about her redemption stories, the kind of people who are used to toxic and manipulative people around them and feel like as long as it's tolerable and not 'gone too far yet' then it's excusable? Or are they the kind that has done things similarly to Irene or toxic people and feel it's fine as long as it's not pushed too far simply because 'we are friends and we should just accept our flaws and not be criticized at all'. I think the people who are in such a situation to think about it for themselves, why is it okay for anyone to treat their supposedly-friend and not get called out for their disrespectful attitude, behavior and actions if they truly want to build a friendship? Sure, maybe some people who are under a toxic relationship don't retaliate, but that doesn't mean they don't mind it though, especially if they are trying to not involve other people (eg: Rina in context) in the drama, but does that make it okay?
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Nah she is for sure insufferable during this volume so I definitely understand the complaints for her, I'm just biased since after you learn more about the whole situation she becomes way more likeable. Also
her behavior is largely due to asley (major spoiler!!!)
teaching her that way when she way just starting out as an adventurer, she doesn't remember it was him due to memory manipulation and he doesn't know because he hasn't done it yet....
yes, time travel fuckery, but he basically stalks her as an upcoming adventurer and saves her life and starts her on the path of being a mage (she wanted to be a warrior, it was cute)
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@Rayster dude, you're way overthinking this, and forgetting how long Astley was shut away from society. He doesn't know what normal social interaction looks like. Astley isn't really bothered by any of this, because he knows he would be just fine, even if they try to blacklist him. As for disrespect, or disloyalty, look at the way he and Pochi treat each other, she was in real pain and nearly vomited, because he was a little annoyed she ditched him to eat cake. He and Pochi have been going back and forth with the painful, borderline dangerous, pranks for who knows how long.
Also Irene may have escalated the drama in class, but Astley started it in the first place. Those three challenging him was inevitable, after what he said in class.
Also Irene may have escalated the drama in class, but Astley started it in the first place. Those three challenging him was inevitable, after what he said in class.
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@jrohrer13 ,
Yea, I get that if someone has gone ahead in the stories and read about her growth, it's definitely understandable that she can be likeable, after all she's not an evil psychotic terrible character, but otherwise it's just odd to see people without the knowledge of her character development defend and justify for her. I honestly think that her appearance has encouraged some people to be more lenient with her (just like how an attractive person in real life tends to get more lenient treatments in general), imagine if it's a burly arrogant ugly male or spectacles-worn fishy scheming male character that are generally less favorable characters.
Thanks again for sharing the spoilers though~ I like
in a story and looking forward to reading that part 😃
@CountryMage ,
I didn't overthink, it all came quite naturally to me because life experiences I've had and seen/heard of have taught me that there are many awful people in reality and being naive unnecessarily when red flags are shown will only make you an easily-manipulated target. I only wrote that long because I had to explain my points in details so that people can actually get what I'm saying.
How long Astley had been away from society and how his relationship with Pochi is (which their level of closeness is incomparable with Astley-Irene relationship's, given that they've spent millennia together, and Pochi is even level100 higher than Astley you'd think they don't know where the line is? People act more rudely and can be violent around siblings in general but they don't act the same way around acquaintances, and Astley is at most an acquaintance to Irene at this point), does not make it okay for her selfish treatments and actions taken towards an acquaintance/friend to be excusable/appropriate.
Now I'm too lazy to further this conversation already, let's just agree that regardless of how Astley feel about Irene, many readers including me feel that Irene (as of current point in the story) is not a trustable character that people would want to have as a friend in reality. Regardless of how Irene is, I'm still looking forward to reading further development of the plots, and I hope other readers and you will too.
Yea, I get that if someone has gone ahead in the stories and read about her growth, it's definitely understandable that she can be likeable, after all she's not an evil psychotic terrible character, but otherwise it's just odd to see people without the knowledge of her character development defend and justify for her. I honestly think that her appearance has encouraged some people to be more lenient with her (just like how an attractive person in real life tends to get more lenient treatments in general), imagine if it's a burly arrogant ugly male or spectacles-worn fishy scheming male character that are generally less favorable characters.
Thanks again for sharing the spoilers though~ I like
Time-travel element
@CountryMage ,
I didn't overthink, it all came quite naturally to me because life experiences I've had and seen/heard of have taught me that there are many awful people in reality and being naive unnecessarily when red flags are shown will only make you an easily-manipulated target. I only wrote that long because I had to explain my points in details so that people can actually get what I'm saying.
How long Astley had been away from society and how his relationship with Pochi is (which their level of closeness is incomparable with Astley-Irene relationship's, given that they've spent millennia together, and Pochi is even level100 higher than Astley you'd think they don't know where the line is? People act more rudely and can be violent around siblings in general but they don't act the same way around acquaintances, and Astley is at most an acquaintance to Irene at this point), does not make it okay for her selfish treatments and actions taken towards an acquaintance/friend to be excusable/appropriate.
Now I'm too lazy to further this conversation already, let's just agree that regardless of how Astley feel about Irene, many readers including me feel that Irene (as of current point in the story) is not a trustable character that people would want to have as a friend in reality. Regardless of how Irene is, I'm still looking forward to reading further development of the plots, and I hope other readers and you will too.
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@macarroiz chop-chop as in: hurry up, move along, and let's go.
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Irenes blackmailing wasn't nice but like many noticed it has no larger consequence for Ashley besides being annoyed.
Gods messenger said that people started only to believe in themselves and the people above them Irene personify this while still very human this is basically the nature of her twisted personality.
Him being in the student council maybe help him to get to the school records. This helps in so far that we have seen very suspicious things happen like abandon cities, suppressing the amount of mages , reduce the quality of mages , gave the mages basically a slave contract and this isn't something which happened over the course of centuries but only in the last few decades.(meaning a human life time).
This is too suspicious seems like Demon King follower turned some higher ups in the school, government and the adventure guild to their side or replaced them. The records would gave away who works in the school for them. Aslyes promotion in the Adventure Guild properly gives away sooner or alter the culprit there too.
Also after the first semester is over Asley will have to start serious preparation work for the coming of the Demon King . Rene will be properly send to the Sword School to become Battle Mage so the whole blackmail thing just air for Asley they don't know what is coming.
Gods messenger said that people started only to believe in themselves and the people above them Irene personify this while still very human this is basically the nature of her twisted personality.
Him being in the student council maybe help him to get to the school records. This helps in so far that we have seen very suspicious things happen like abandon cities, suppressing the amount of mages , reduce the quality of mages , gave the mages basically a slave contract and this isn't something which happened over the course of centuries but only in the last few decades.(meaning a human life time).
This is too suspicious seems like Demon King follower turned some higher ups in the school, government and the adventure guild to their side or replaced them. The records would gave away who works in the school for them. Aslyes promotion in the Adventure Guild properly gives away sooner or alter the culprit there too.
Also after the first semester is over Asley will have to start serious preparation work for the coming of the Demon King . Rene will be properly send to the Sword School to become Battle Mage so the whole blackmail thing just air for Asley they don't know what is coming.
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We can all agree that Irene is being excessively intrusive and annoying here, but in the end, it's still just an annoyance.
Rather, Asley knows that she wants more from him than he does from her, so I think the best approach to this situation is to lean on her more. Leverage the fact that an archmage is semi-dependent on your presence to further your goals, several of which a strong political backing would handy for.
What's she gonna do at this point? Say no and call you unreasonable? Flunk you out of school?
Rather, Asley knows that she wants more from him than he does from her, so I think the best approach to this situation is to lean on her more. Leverage the fact that an archmage is semi-dependent on your presence to further your goals, several of which a strong political backing would handy for.
What's she gonna do at this point? Say no and call you unreasonable? Flunk you out of school?
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i know tldr:
i agree with a lot of what Rayster has said. Honestly at this point I will likely be dropping the story. I'll probably take a quick check in a couple of issues later but at this point I have lost enthusiasm even with the spoilers. Actually the spoilers make me less interested. For me part of the issue is a combo of what do I think is reasonable and partly what is enjoyable.
First, even before the student council incident, and this is just my reading and feelings. The Irene character to me is hugely annoying. I get that there will be these types of characters, the snob who thinks he is better then Asley, the jealous person who tries to undercut him, the tension creators but not truly bad ... but she is one of the major characters, has too much screen time and to me is a huge irritant. Poochi aside there are only two characters I like in this story, Asley and Rina. We've seen more of the character I don't like then Rina one of the two characters I do like. Some one mentioned that she is the friend who shows up for meals. I disagree. I have a friend who seems to have that gift, can sense free food from miles away, kind of annoying / amusing. The thing is he has other features that make him redeemable, you need help he is one those that will be there busting his butt, he gets free tickets to a concert he calls you up and asks you along. I see nothing like this in Irene. Whether she can actually steal or hurt him to me is not the issue it is the attempts, it is the atmosphere created of constantly having to watch your back with her character. While I don't feel she needs to be his friend for me she in the position of being a major antagonist.
Student Council / Forgery problem: First let me say that I believe they know Asley did it and not Rina. Did he violate the contract or not? It does not matter as far as the issues it has created for me and the story. Punish him or not rather then blackmail. Blackmailing him by saying we caught you if you don't want to be expelled join the SC wouldn't like but could somewhat see. When they basically said if you don't do what we want Rina might be expelled to me crossed the line. To me it was basically if you don't do what we want we won't hurt you but will hurt someone you care for, that's scum. Threatening a persons friend rather then the person to me changed it. It took the two of them from an annoyance, from a user to a corrupt person, a bad person, an abusive person. To me that is a line that once crossed is hard to bring the person back from, not saying it couldn't happen but it would take some exceptional writing for a believable redemption. As far as the spoilers and redemption of Irene, everything mentioned is simply something I would expect of someone from her influence and level so to me it doesn't necessarily redeem her. It doesn't convince me that she isn't just a user and abusive. Everything said in the spoilers can be explained through self-interest or through job requirements.
Just curious one question from the people with the spoilers, so how many issues or chapters are there so far total for all the volumes?
Ok, so if I'm dropping it why post. I guess because I liked the story to start with, seemed a little different, found it interesting and was hoping for more. But for me it went from enjoyable to frustrating with more annoying or bad characters then characters I liked. Made me want to vent a little so I guess here is my vent. Thanks for reading my rant and hope you enjoy all the manga you are reading.
i agree with a lot of what Rayster has said. Honestly at this point I will likely be dropping the story. I'll probably take a quick check in a couple of issues later but at this point I have lost enthusiasm even with the spoilers. Actually the spoilers make me less interested. For me part of the issue is a combo of what do I think is reasonable and partly what is enjoyable.
First, even before the student council incident, and this is just my reading and feelings. The Irene character to me is hugely annoying. I get that there will be these types of characters, the snob who thinks he is better then Asley, the jealous person who tries to undercut him, the tension creators but not truly bad ... but she is one of the major characters, has too much screen time and to me is a huge irritant. Poochi aside there are only two characters I like in this story, Asley and Rina. We've seen more of the character I don't like then Rina one of the two characters I do like. Some one mentioned that she is the friend who shows up for meals. I disagree. I have a friend who seems to have that gift, can sense free food from miles away, kind of annoying / amusing. The thing is he has other features that make him redeemable, you need help he is one those that will be there busting his butt, he gets free tickets to a concert he calls you up and asks you along. I see nothing like this in Irene. Whether she can actually steal or hurt him to me is not the issue it is the attempts, it is the atmosphere created of constantly having to watch your back with her character. While I don't feel she needs to be his friend for me she in the position of being a major antagonist.
Student Council / Forgery problem: First let me say that I believe they know Asley did it and not Rina. Did he violate the contract or not? It does not matter as far as the issues it has created for me and the story. Punish him or not rather then blackmail. Blackmailing him by saying we caught you if you don't want to be expelled join the SC wouldn't like but could somewhat see. When they basically said if you don't do what we want Rina might be expelled to me crossed the line. To me it was basically if you don't do what we want we won't hurt you but will hurt someone you care for, that's scum. Threatening a persons friend rather then the person to me changed it. It took the two of them from an annoyance, from a user to a corrupt person, a bad person, an abusive person. To me that is a line that once crossed is hard to bring the person back from, not saying it couldn't happen but it would take some exceptional writing for a believable redemption. As far as the spoilers and redemption of Irene, everything mentioned is simply something I would expect of someone from her influence and level so to me it doesn't necessarily redeem her. It doesn't convince me that she isn't just a user and abusive. Everything said in the spoilers can be explained through self-interest or through job requirements.
Just curious one question from the people with the spoilers, so how many issues or chapters are there so far total for all the volumes?
Ok, so if I'm dropping it why post. I guess because I liked the story to start with, seemed a little different, found it interesting and was hoping for more. But for me it went from enjoyable to frustrating with more annoying or bad characters then characters I liked. Made me want to vent a little so I guess here is my vent. Thanks for reading my rant and hope you enjoy all the manga you are reading.
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@jrohrer13
Reallay I know that the on the manga side we are nearly catched up to the raws
On the WN side someone picked it up after the manga release again but seems to dropped it with no source of the raws(WN) on Novelupdates . Where are the oginal WNs ?
Reallay I know that the on the manga side we are nearly catched up to the raws
On the WN side someone picked it up after the manga release again but seems to dropped it with no source of the raws(WN) on Novelupdates . Where are the oginal WNs ?
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@Fiercesoulking
I think you might be talking about the LN translations (At least I am pretty sure it was the LN) because I have not seen any translations of the WN floating around but maybe they are out there. I read it here, https://ncode.syosetu.com/n9055cl/ as a method to practice my Japanese.
On a side note I have no clue how to properly reply to someone other than just @name them lol it seems that is not how other do it though.
I think you might be talking about the LN translations (At least I am pretty sure it was the LN) because I have not seen any translations of the WN floating around but maybe they are out there. I read it here, https://ncode.syosetu.com/n9055cl/ as a method to practice my Japanese.
On a side note I have no clue how to properly reply to someone other than just @name them lol it seems that is not how other do it though.
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@jrohrer13 how old is Irene again I forgot xD
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@Invader_Retro
So I don't think we ever got an exact age according to the web novel but she is supposed to be around 75-80 years old
. She's supposed to be around as old as billy, I think they were class mates if I remember right.
So I don't think we ever got an exact age according to the web novel but she is supposed to be around 75-80 years old
going by the time travel Arc, in fact if I remember right she is supposed to be 76 but don't know if the exacts of that were confirmed
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@jrohrer13 alright thanks got confused for a bit there 👍
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