Zenbu Kowashite Jigoku de Aishite - Vol. 2 Ch. 6 - Stagnant Quagmire

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I noticed Naoi has some kind of bruises on her arm and a few cuts on her legs, so her father might be aggressive and might have physically hurt her in some moment. I'll vote for Naoi's dad as the worst parent
If by cuts on Naoi's legs you mean the one in the colored page with Kurumi and Kokoro, I think those are from the rose Kurumi is holding. If you've seen cuts on her legs on other pages, then my mistake.

Though I agree at first that the dad is worse since he's dealing both physical and emotional damage and the mom is only dealing emotional damage, other user's comments convinced me that the inflicted emotional damage of the mother might actually be worse. I'm still not sure.
 
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Wanting to steal the eraser, even though she could have bought it (and did), wasn't because she wanted something and was willing to resort to stealing, but because she feels burdened by the facade of perfection and wished she could do something 'bad' to be free of it for even a moment. The fact that she didn't actually need to do it is the point.
I know what the author wanted to convey but I wish it was executed differently. What I meant was that reason alone leading to said scene wasn't very realistic or believable to me. It comes across as... well, "cartoonish" and predictable, after reading so much manga. I am of course no author but I do feel like that scene could have been modified to appear more natural and at the same time, convey the same feeling.

I like this author so I'm still interested in seeing where this story goes. But precisely because I like the author that I think it could have been done better.
 
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I know what the author wanted to convey but I wish it was executed differently. What I meant was that reason alone leading to said scene wasn't very realistic or believable to me. It comes across as... well, "cartoonish" and predictable, after reading so much manga. I am of course no author but I do feel like that scene could have been modified to appear more natural and at the same time, convey the same feeling.

I like this author so I'm still interested in seeing where this story goes. But precisely because I like the author that I think it could have been done better.
The reason why I thought you didn't understand is because, if you are understanding, then you seem to essentially be proposing that the character have an entirely different personality, motivation, and relationship with her parent, rather than just asking for the scene to be reframed.

In this scene, she is not really trying to rebel against anyone other than herself. She isn't rebelling against the mother's restrictions because it seems like there essentially are no or few explicit restrictions. Instead, the normal parent/child relationship is inverted such that she is responsible for her mother's emotional well being, leading to her developing her 'public face' to try to manage the mother's emotions for her. She seems to largely place these restrictions on herself to avoid her mother becoming emotionally distraught or self injuring, though this has grown to her social circle (including Kokoro etc) becoming attached to her acting this way.

I can't comment on the author's other works as I haven't read them, but at least I think this is a valid path to take the character and would probably not like this one as much if it was written to be a more realistic story about a typical child rebelling against their controlling parent complete with realistic dialogue. Though again, different preferences are equally valid, but I don't think an author doing something differently than their other works is a flaw in and of itself.
 
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The reason why I thought you didn't understand is because, if you are understanding, then you seem to essentially be proposing that the character have an entirely different personality, motivation, and relationship with her parent, rather than just asking for the scene to be reframed.
Oh no, like I said, there surely must be more than one way to reframe the scene while keeping the character's personality, motivation and relationships intact. If you are talking about the example I thought up of, my reasoning was that given her mother's behavior (going by how real people like her act in my experience), it's possible there's something the daughter mildly cared about (something more believable than an eraser but not necessarily something important) but her mother probably went hysterical in the past when she found her daughter "wasting" time or money on it when she could be studying or doing whatever the mother thinks is for her own good. So, it's something that could free her from her "facade of perfection" while also being more believable. Of course, like I said, this isn't the only way to reframe that scene.

I'm not saying the original scene was out of character; just that it was hard to take seriously. If you think about it, the other times she tried to "ruin" something (the class photo or the desk), she picked something with more believable context to it, even though Naoi had asked her for something like a pen (which was just as random as the eraser). While the manga has its unrealistic parts, the mom's character design isn't one of them. Nor is the daughter's. Having known people like them in real life, I'm not asking for "a typical child rebelling against their controlling parent complete with realistic dialogue". I imagined tying that scene to a part of her history could have felt a little more natural while keeping her character design intact.
In this scene, she is not really trying to rebel against anyone other than herself. She isn't rebelling against the mother's restrictions because it seems like there essentially are no or few explicit restrictions. Instead, the normal parent/child relationship is inverted such that she is responsible for her mother's emotional well being, leading to her developing her 'public face' to try to manage the mother's emotions for her. She seems to largely place these restrictions on herself to avoid her mother becoming emotionally distraught or self injuring, though this has grown to her social circle (including Kokoro etc) becoming attached to her acting this way.
I doubt she has much of a choice in these self-imposed restrictions when deviating a bit makes her mother act that way. She seems to have learned and curated these rules along the way, for example, as a child, she sees her mother threaten self-harm when she doesn't get a 100 on every test. She thought her mother would be happy with 90+ but finds out she's not. At all. And in a very traumatizing way.
 
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Now that we know Naoi also has good grades, I'm thinking of them as academic rivals in another universe (still with the traumas).
 
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Oh no, like I said, there surely must be more than one way to reframe the scene while keeping the character's personality, motivation and relationships intact. If you are talking about the example I thought up of, my reasoning was that given her mother's behavior (going by how real people like her act in my experience), it's possible there's something the daughter mildly cared about (something more believable than an eraser but not necessarily something important) but her mother probably went hysterical in the past when she found her daughter "wasting" time or money on it when she could be studying or doing whatever the mother thinks is for her own good. So, it's something that could free her from her "facade of perfection" while also being more believable. Of course, like I said, this isn't the only way to reframe that scene.

I'm not saying the original scene was out of character; just that it was hard to take seriously. If you think about it, the other times she tried to "ruin" something (the class photo or the desk), she picked something with more believable context to it, even though Naoi had asked her for something like a pen (which was just as random as the eraser). While the manga has its unrealistic parts, the mom's character design isn't one of them. Nor is the daughter's. Having known people like them in real life, I'm not asking for "a typical child rebelling against their controlling parent complete with realistic dialogue". I imagined tying that scene to a part of her history could have felt a little more natural while keeping her character design intact.

I doubt she has much of a choice in these self-imposed restrictions when deviating a bit makes her mother act that way. She seems to have learned and curated these rules along the way, for example, as a child, she sees her mother threaten self-harm when she doesn't get a 100 on every test. She thought her mother would be happy with 90+ but finds out she's not. At all. And in a very traumatizing way.
That all makes sense.

To me then, I think it makes sense that the first thing she considers isn't something that's a direct rejection of her mother, but rather a direct rejection of the 'character' she created. It's abundantly clear she's not ready to go against their dynamic in any way or to try to change it, so the first thing she thinks about is some minor thing of no impact or relationship to anything. The first things she actually does, and mostly uninstructed, are stealing the photo and carving the desk, but it makes sense to me that she was not mentally ready to consider something like that pre-Naoi.

At the same time, if we're just talking about things the mother might react badly about after the fact, the eraser clearly was one. We know because we got to see her mother freaking out about her even considering stealing the eraser and framing it like it was a rejection of Kurumi's relationship with her mother, to which she responds by immediately trying to reassure her mother (showing us, again, that she's not yet ready to consciously reject their dynamic, even with Naoi's influence of asking her not to go).

Also thank you for the civil discussion over these posts - you got me to think more deeply about the character dynamics in this series and also to consider more carefully what it is I actually enjoy about it.
 
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That all makes sense.

To me then, I think it makes sense that the first thing she considers isn't something that's a direct rejection of her mother, but rather a direct rejection of the 'character' she created. It's abundantly clear she's not ready to go against their dynamic in any way or to try to change it, so the first thing she thinks about is some minor thing of no impact or relationship to anything. The first things she actually does, and mostly uninstructed, are stealing the photo and carving the desk, but it makes sense to me that she was not mentally ready to consider something like that pre-Naoi.

At the same time, if we're just talking about things the mother might react badly about after the fact, the eraser clearly was one. We know because we got to see her mother freaking out about her even considering stealing the eraser and framing it like it was a rejection of Kurumi's relationship with her mother, to which she responds by immediately trying to reassure her mother (showing us, again, that she's not yet ready to consciously reject their dynamic, even with Naoi's influence of asking her not to go).

Also thank you for the civil discussion over these posts - you got me to think more deeply about the character dynamics in this series and also to consider more carefully what it is I actually enjoy about it.
Likewise, thank you, it's fun analyzing characters and their actions. Your point about the first "action" (shoplifting) being more "thoughtless" than the next two got me thinking. Though, it didn't need to be a rejection of her mother but could have been a momentary rejection of something simpler to start with like school rules, the same way shoplifting was a (riskier and uncharacteristically foolish) rejection of morals/social rules and the law. And don't get me wrong, I can enjoy overt edge in a series as long as it doesn't break my suspension of disbelief. So, unlike Kurumi, I find Naoi's character interesting regardless of how unrealistic she is.

On a related topic, I think Naoi's "don't go" was also out of genuine concern for Kurumi. We see that she pauses before trying to explain her words and though Naoi targets Kurumi for fun at first because of the (wrong) image she had of her, once she starts noticing signs that Kurumi's mother might be just as abusive as Naoi's father, it's implied she begins to feel differently. The story is "moving" and I predict less of the initial teenedge now.
 
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Likewise, thank you, it's fun analyzing characters and their actions. Your point about the first "action" (shoplifting) being more "thoughtless" than the next two got me thinking. Though, it didn't need to be a rejection of her mother but could have been a momentary rejection of something simpler to start with like school rules, the same way shoplifting was a (riskier and uncharacteristically foolish) rejection of morals/social rules and the law. And don't get me wrong, I can enjoy overt edge in a series as long as it doesn't break my suspension of disbelief. So, unlike Kurumi, I find Naoi's character interesting regardless of how unrealistic she is.

I think maybe we could argue that her initial frustration with having to check on Naoi and complaining out loud was kind of a rejection of, if not school rules, her role as an upstanding student who teachers can count on for things like that.

On a related topic, I think Naoi's "don't go" was also out of genuine concern for Kurumi. We see that she pauses before trying to explain her words and though Naoi targets Kurumi for fun at first because of the (wrong) image she had of her, once she starts noticing signs that Kurumi's mother might be just as abusive as Naoi's father, it's implied she begins to feel differently. The story is "moving" and I predict less of the initial teenedge now.
It definitely was revealing about what the author was going for with this series, with Naoi having multiple levels to her character along with normal romantic affection behind the over the top persona she goes for. Someone compared this series to Kitanai Kimi ga Ichiban Kawaii, which is something where the characters are edgy and unrealistic throughout, but we can imagine that this will instead be a series where they both care for each other and are trying to support each other in their difficult situations as best they know how.
 
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Kitanai Kimi ga Ichiban Kawaii

Pretty short so give it a read, there is also an ASMR of a part of the story as a bonus
Thanks.
I remember starting it but never reading it through. Well it certaintly was something, I don't know how I could ever forget...The're both terrible people but they still deserved better than that ending. Therapy maybe?
 
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definitely both...., i don't know about yall but drunk fathers are worst when they have inly daughter/s, absolute hell hole, but not taking away the fact knife wielding mom is just as bad. Although if we consider the redemption route moms are redeemable atleast, drunk fathers mosf often never come out of it and the best they can do is just leave their daughters to their own devices not meddling in their life.
 
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Please consider buying the chapters/Yuri Hime issues if you can! There's guides and such out there if you need help navigating things. I do have Volume one and there's only a few extras so I'll try to translate those at some point too; things are about to get really busy at work though so don't hold your breath lmfao. ALSO I've been going back and redoing the old chapters when I have time here and there so they should all look a lot sharper/have a better translation in general.
Genuine question. Is there any way that I as an English only reader can support yuri hime?
 
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Genuine question. Is there any way that I as an English only reader can support yuri hime?

I’d recommend bookwalker the most (it might seem intimidating at first but you should be able to navigate with a Google translation and the check out is available in English) you don’t need to do any mystery internet trickery and should be able to buy stuff like normal from wherever you are (I live in America and don’t have any issues)

https://bookwalker.jp/label/162/

If you’re just looking for this series specifically here’s the Japanese title 全部壊して地獄で愛して

Amazon jp has more steps if you prefer to use that. if you search for yuri hime in English I think it will auto correct it for you but if it doesn’t put this in コミック百合姫.

The first annoying part is making an account cause you’ll have to put in a Japanese address; you can just use like. A hostel or a hotel or something lol it’s a bit of a pain but then it should work and you can buy it like you normally would (they do ship overseas but it’s expensive so it’s better to buy stuff in bulk, the ebooks are cheap)

The SECOND annoying part is that I think after like 4-5 purchases or something it’ll ask you to verify your location. You’ll wanna get a vpn with your location set to Japan and that should do the trick (you DONT have to use the vpn again in the future as far as I know, just the one time)

If money is an issue the next best thing I think you can do is read the free chapters on ichijin plus https://ichijin-plus.com/comics/89324057887009

(It’s just a content warning warning that opens up at first, pick the left option はい) to get views and likes on it!

Yuri hime issues are weirdly numbered two months in advance (this past chapter was in the October issue for example lol. The next issue which comes out in September, is the November issue)
 
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The interval between updates always makes me forget how good this manga is.
 
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The mother is worst. like Naoi did, you can ignore the dad but you can’t ignore someone who frijing threaten to kill itself
 

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