Tsuki ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu - Ch. 114 - Like a lightbulb

[Renvix]

oh that explains why ilumgand kept taking the medication even though he knew something was wrong 🤔

 

[Milanin]

See?
It fit my comment "the story try to "blame" Makoto"...

In a way, it is blaming Makoto 100%, because Illum did come to him to confront him about feeling this way, but Makoto just blanket covered his arse by erasing the memories haphazardly before even hearing the kid out.

In terms of d&d it would be a failed wisdom/perception throw.

 

[Bibliothecarius]

Thanks for the chapter!!!!

 

[madzai]

In a way, it is blaming Makoto 100%, because Illum did come to him to confront him about feeling this way

Even manga specifically show why he did that. Because he was harassed by random student all the time.

Makoto just blanket covered his arse by erasing the memories haphazardly before even hearing the kid out.

After Makoto killed assasins? What he's supposed to hear out? Incoherent screaming?

In terms of d&d it would be a failed wisdom/perception throw.

Nope. Since it not not affect our character in any way.

People keep trying to make it looks like the kid have any effect on the story or characters. Or how he could end up differently without Makoto interference. It's a no in both cases, with people providing actual citation why.


If anything, the story of llumgand is a jab at Hibiki and her power to make fanatics out of people, without ability to actually make them better. She "contaminated" llumgand with her ideals, but the kid is clearly not strong enough to carry them, folding like a wet blanket at the very first obstacle.

 

[zerio]

it underscores Makoto's flaws in a way that actually impacts him instead of everyone just tiptoeing around the issue. I think it's a good addition to support a fairly meh drug plot.

It at least shows that separate from the language issue, dude also inherently doesn't care much for communication.

More like he doesn't care about hyuman, which is a result of the bad treatment he received from the goddess and the hyumans.

If a demihuman approached him, he's more likely to care.

 

[sisio]

now thats bring some detail that missed at anime

 

[koldtk]

Milk? From Gorgons?

 

[isoycrazy]

Milk? From Gorgons?

I think in the lead up to the demonstration with the powers on the boulder, it shows the Gorgons as farmers caring for the cattle in the Demiplane, so it isn't their personal supply.

 

[Milanin]

Or how he could end up differently without Makoto interference

The point is that he would have surely ended up different with Makoto's interference. If he managed to tell Makoto that he was being affected by a drug, Makoto would have gotten Shiki to test and determine the effects and possibly detect the others in the city that will be happening soon.

 

[madzai]

The point is that he would have surely ended up different with Makoto's interference. If he managed to tell Makoto that he was being affected by a drug, Makoto would have gotten Shiki to test and determine the effects and possibly detect the others in the city that will be happening soon.

People are talking about not running into llumgand at all. He would still ending taking drugs to catch up to Hibiki.

If he managed to tell Makoto that he was being affected by a drug, Makoto would have gotten Shiki to test and determine the effects and possibly detect the others in the city that will be happening soon.

Makoto have no reasons to listen to him at all. llumgand is a dumb nobody with shitty character, who again and again confirmed to Makoto and other that he's not really able to held a normal conversation with them. Shiki, if he's so smart could go and dig about llumgand and his obsession. He didn't. Let's blame him, right? Especially after the whole affair with the Scepter, and how it ends up, if uouy read WN\LN. Point being that it's not reasonable for Makoto to listen to random nobodies, he's totally have better thing to do. llumgand inability to approach Makoto normally for a long time is on him, and expecting Makoto to listen to him after assassins attack is just weird. Even if could sense him taking drug, why should he care at all?

 

[Milanin]

why should he care at all

If you've read the WN/LN then you know of the IF worlds. That's why he should care at all.
He's not so uncaring as you've portrayed him in your explanations now. And if he had just listened to him when he had this moment of clarity, a part of history would have changed in a massive way.

 

[madzai]

If you've read the WN/LN then you know of the IF worlds. That's why he should care at all.
He's not so uncaring as you've portrayed him in your explanations now. And if he had just listened to him when he had this moment of clarity, a part of history would have changed in a massive way.

This is a meaningless discussion. If they decided, f.e., to shake up Rona, who was acting really sus and make Tomoe scan her memory all of this can be prevented. But it's unreasonable to to assume them doing so, because it certainly make things more complicated with demons (it ends up making things complicated anyway). You can dissect every interaction that way and judge it after knowing the consequences. This is not Tensura where MC have literal omniscient being whispering into his ear.

The real question was: "Is there any reason for Makoto listening for this random student blabbering (again, Makoto didn't even remember who he is)?". Again, llumgand didn't want to convey some useful info to Makoto, no he was trying to "settle",actually not really, seeing how immediately pissed he become (and no, "drugs" aren't an excuse and never are), the initial conflict that he, 100% caused by being a little b*tch and throwing all he favorite hero ideals out of the window. Being a perfect example of Makoto disdain toward most of hymans. Who he cared for anyway, in the big picture, the same way as with demons.

 

[Kaibathedragonlover]

Well, i kind of not really agree fully, but you do have a point. But aren't they directly responsible? Hiding crucial information from Makoto. Like Illumgand wasn't killed by Makoto students gang, he was killed by Mio. Tomoe pretend not to understand Luto explanation about traveling between worlds. They all hold information about Rembrandt "deeds" and about demon cults around the city. Mio hid information about meeting Hibiki, Tomoe hid information of how bad other hero is, that leads to Makoto beating the shit out of him, that lead to basically Illumgand v.2. They refuse to state their opinion a lot of time, saying Makoto must decided for himself (he's 15 y.o., btw), Mio backtracked on intimacy that she proposed herself. The only who actually helped are the Gods, who show Makoto what may happen if he don't chill a bit.

Actually their interference is the least influencing reason behind his detachment and they believed that it was to avoid causing him unnecessary pain or worry, but it did stunt his growth as a person for a while and even he was aware and allowed it; the main causes of his detachment are that he was the only hero that was summoned against his will, because he didn't want his sisters to be separated from their family, he was rejected by the bug as a hero, only the demihumans accepted him, he ended up creating a space that is similar to Japan with the demiplane by accident (so he never really got over his homesickness) and after living in that world for two years he said that he only liked like 5% of it, not 50% but 5% finally Makoto doesn't really have any serious goal in that world, beyond kicking the bug teeth inside her throat, everything he sets himself as a goal is something he does to find a place in this world since he doesn't really have a place where he belongs, he could just have moved to the demiplane and close it permanently from the rest of the world; hell after the incident caused by the adventurers in the demiplane in his place I would have ordered Tomoe, Shiki and Mio to gather the demihuman species they consider that have potential including the demons, move them to the demiplane and close it tight.

 

[DeltaVee]

"You ruined my life!"
"Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?"

 

[llde]

I mean this isn't really a fatal flaw because it doesn't matter and none of this can meaningfully harm Makoto in anyway. That's kind of point of a fatal flaw, it has to be a critical weakness that leads to tragedy for the character. The consequence of this behavior is that people Makoto doesn't value die and he is affected in no way because they don't matter. Most of the people Makoto actually cares about are totally untouchable by the events happening around him. Also it's pretty clear that Makoto actually largely hates this world so I don't know why anyone would think he cares about it or would ever care about it.

Makoto's actual fatal flaw is his detachment which is increasing over time to the point where even some of his closest allies were briefly afraid of him/what he's becoming. This would eventually estrange him from his loved ones as he gradually becomes as cruel as the shitty goddess that runs this world.

Right calling it "fatal" may have been an overstretch. But it could affect him, as now he risk missing the critical piece of information that some power is using demonic drugs and is hellbent on making people hating him. (this of course assuming some level of informational security for psyops, like the destruction of documents). Reflecting better it may be quite well a derivative flaw on what you are describing about his detachment. It also highlight how much Makoto tend to "panic" and to overreact.

Whetever he later got the info in another way doesn't matter that much to consider this a flaw.

Why he should try to talk to a shithead like this? Illumgand is the one who can't uphold the ideals of hero he adore and act as an a-hole. Why Makoto should care even a little bit? Especially after manga show him being harasses by random dumbass students.

Dumbass dies. End of consequences.

No, he don't. Or he'll spend all the day listening to morons. Makoto was clearly "set up" by author to make a point. It's just the point being stupid.

Oh, Makoto clearly learned his lesson in this one. Treat trash like trash. This is exactly that he did.

IT's not like makoto is remembering him however. If the author clearly made Makoto remember Illumgand as the shithole he is, even if IIRC they only interacted one time,so the other stuffs should not being known make sense, It would be better, becouse it would clearly address this as consequences for previous behaviour of Illumgand.
But in this way? Hardly seems a consequence of FAFO, without "exiting" from the narration POV. He doesn't remember him, so he doesn't remember him being "trash". It also make way more explicit then before how much Makoto tend to panickly overreact when not with his advisors. And what he did was a massive panic induced overreaction.

And honestly, if the "powers" that are conspiring against Makoto had a slight focus on informational security, Makoto would have hard time to discover the info Illumgand could provide him by talking.

 

[AAA1]

I actually find it quite refreshing :/
It feels like a proper isekai story that MC just kinda does whatever he wants and not in a rush to do certain things to fit the narrative/arc/plot. All while that is the plot regardless.

Tho at this rate, the story would never end lol.

don't worry about that. for story like this, the side characters is the one who move the plot. his relationship to goddess, the heroes relationship to goddess, and his relationship to the heroes is the main plot narration of this story. other story should make a general rule to writing like this before deciding the same theme which is "OP mc doing things without goal" like in any other titles

 

[madzai]

Actually their interference is the least influencing reason behind his detachment and they believed that it was to avoid causing him unnecessary pain or worry, but it did stunt his growth as a person for a while and even he was aware and allowed it; the main causes of his detachment are that he was the only hero that was summoned against his will, because he didn't want his sisters to be separated from their family, he was rejected by the bug as a hero, only the demihumans accepted him, he ended up creating a space that is similar to Japan with the demiplane by accident (so he never really got over his homesickness) and after living in that world for two years he said that he only liked like 5% of it, not 50% but 5% finally Makoto doesn't really have any serious goal in that world, beyond kicking the bug teeth inside her throat, everything he sets himself as a goal is something he does to find a place in this world since he doesn't really have a place where he belongs, he could just have moved to the demiplane and close it permanently from the rest of the world; hell after the incident caused by the adventurers in the demiplane in his place I would have ordered Tomoe, Shiki and Mio to gather the demihuman species they consider that have potential including the demons, move them to the demiplane and close it tight.

Great analysis! But he isn't actually ended being locked in Demiplan for a long time without any hyman visiting(Lime is basically dragonoid) before starting launching his grand plan. The only thing he really can invest into is just exploring the world (that kinda backfired since he clearly like demon society more) and getting stronger, to protect everyone again Goddess, that he overdid due to trolling Gods not telling him he already almost beat the sh*t out of Athena.

IT's not like makoto is remembering him however.

Sure, but manga did as much as show Makoto reasoning - being constantly harassed (or rather, annoyed) by students. In such conditions, expecting one of many such students holding actual useful info, while acting exactly as other - hostile is really a far stretch.

And honestly, if the "powers" that are conspiring against Makoto had a slight focus on informational security, Makoto would have hard time to discover the info Illumgand could provide him by talking.

Rona fall into narrative "hymans are stupid" and it cost her and demons dearly.

 

[isoycrazy]

All this What If's makes me think about a conversation between a veteran captain and a young woman who experienced her first real battles in The Aeronaut's Windlass. She is feeling guilty about not doing more, knowing now what the antagonists were after. The captain tells her not to think that way. She should judge her actions on the knowledge that she had in that moment.

Makoto didn't know about the drugs. Makoto is trying to be nice to Rona and not ruin a possible friendship by having Tomoe read her mind. He sees this student who he doesn't 100% recognize following him for some unknown reason and vague explanation. Makoto thinks this is about a romantic issue, like the one he remembers in this chapter. Then he scares the guy with a full display of his powers, which he doesn't want known to the public. So, assuming it's a romantic issue, he does the logical thing and makes the guy forget about the fight or following Makoto.

It is a complete rational action on the information he had in the moment.

 

[llde]

Rona fall into narrative "hymans are stupid" and it cost her and demons dearly.

Right, but IIRC Makoto at this point of time doesn't know it. If I was in his situation I would keep thinking my opponents have the highest standard of informations ecurity available at the world.

And while it's true many other students approached him, how many did at night in a backalley? The circumstances where clearly different. And after the attack it wouldn't be a stretch for Makoto to think he was involved with the attackers

 

[llde]

All this What If's makes me think about a conversation between a veteran captain and a young woman who experienced her first real battles in The Aeronaut's Windlass. She is feeling guilty about not doing more, knowing now what the antagonists were after. The captain tells her not to think that way. She should judge her actions on the knowledge that she had in that moment.

Makoto didn't know about the drugs. Makoto is trying to be nice to Rona and not ruin a possible friendship by having Tomoe read her mind. He sees this student who he doesn't 100% recognize following him for some unknown reason and vague explanation. Makoto thinks this is about a romantic issue, like the one he remembers in this chapter. Then he scares the guy with a full display of his powers, which he doesn't want known to the public. So, assuming it's a romantic issue, he does the logical thing and makes the guy forget about the fight or following Makoto.

It is a complete rational action on the information he had in the moment.

He thinking it was regarding a romantic issue is part of the problem imho. Waiting at night in a back-alley?
He was attacked by assassins when he appeared, yet he didn't even think he could have been involved by the attackers (or tricked by them to try to distract him). Makoto could, and should in the context, at least interrogate him before wiping his memory.