Fukushuu o Koinegau Saikyou Yuusha wa, Yami no Chikara de Senmetsu Musou Suru - Ch. 134

[Nikoj]

"She has a tragic backstory! you have to forgive her!" nah, 100 chapters after idgaf, pointless redemption is pointless.

Same with all the villains in My Hero Academia, except Gentle, he did nothing wrong, people be forgiving murderers casue they're hot only.

 

[dahhv2]

Wait, isn't that the nekomata Raul? What the fuck?

 

[Grailm]

Wow, way to continue twisting everything. You're just mad that someone doesn't see things the way you do. You're so narrow-minded that anything that doesn't agree with you is inherently wrong, so you just keep twisting things in your mind until the original argument is unrecognizable. The point never has been whether or not Victoria deserved to be punished. The point was is Victoria a redeemable character, and if so, what level of atonement is appropriate for her crimes.

In her mind, Victoria was killing enemies. In Theodora's mind, she was trying to kill an enemy. Whether or not they were justified in viewing said people as the enemy is a different argument entirely, and can easily shift depending on circumstances and perspectives. Regardless, in this universe, the ultimate punishment is not merely an execution. Fates worse than death can be had while alive (i.e. Victoria's case where she was constantly being eaten alive by bugs) and punishments can and do continue in the afterlife as well.

IMO, this arc shows Victoria is someone that can be redeemed. Of course, she must be punished, atone for her misdeeds, and change herself to be redeemed, but she is not like the Saintess, her father, and others who are irredeemable. Even though the Saintess was manipulated by the Goddess of Love, for example, when she was confronted with reality, she sought to save herself by sacrificing others, thus making her irredeemable. So the real question, for me, is whether or not Victoria will take the steps towards being redeemed. Her backstory demands she be given a chance, but whether or not she can be forgiven in the end depends on the actions she takes next.

Now you are just trying to say that everything is a matter of perspective. That there is no objective right and wrong. That Victoria and Theodora are practically the same, its just a matter of how you view things.

That type of moral wishy washiness is not good. You have to draw the line somewhere and Victoria is objectively wrong for what she did. No amount of saying, well by her perspective. All those people deserved what they got, even innocent villagers.

Fuck that. A few months to maybe a year of punishment does not equate to the numerous lives she had tortured and slain. Sorry or not, she has to pay the piper. She shouldnt get off early because of some sob story.

This isn't about redemption, this is about punishment. And as for redemption, i'm going to need to see a lot more from her to even consider it. No tragic background means anything towards redemption. You still did bad and you have to pay.

 

[Tsumi]

Now you are just trying to say that everything is a matter of perspective. That there is no objective right and wrong. That Victoria and Theodora are practically the same, its just a matter of how you view things.

That type of moral wishy washiness is not good. You have to draw the line somewhere and Victoria is objectively wrong for what she did. No amount of saying, well by her perspective. All those people deserved what they got, even innocent villagers.

Fuck that. A few months to maybe a year of punishment does not equate to the numerous lives she had tortured and slain. Sorry or not, she has to pay the piper. She shouldnt get off early because of some sob story.

This isn't about redemption, this is about punishment. And as for redemption, i'm going to need to see a lot more from her to even consider it. No tragic background means anything towards redemption. You still did bad and you have to pay.

And it's this kind of absolute rigid thinking that creates conflict and prevents people from understanding each other. In the real world, it also creates environments that stifles individuality, punishes people for being different, and creates a criminal justice system that is only interested in incarceration and discards reformation and correction.

Also, you are so wrapped up in your emotional response to Victoria that you can't even respond rationally. I have addressed everything you have an issue with yet you keep repeating the same items like a broken record.

 

[Flostirend]

"She has a tragic backstory! you have to forgive her!" nah, 100 chapters after idgaf, pointless redemption is pointless.

Forgiveness is often useful. Imagine just the result of the atomic arms race without it.

https://ncase.me/trust/

 

[Flostirend]

That is the reason for her actions, not an excuse when adding to others suffering.

Humans can be programmed, conditioned to act in a determined way. The younger they are the easier to do. Lets see how the story goes, surely at some point we will see if it's genetic or epigenetic conditioning.

 

[Siete]

The catboy twink God isn't Raoul. Raoul was just pretending to be him, there's a real catboy twink God.

 

[Haze123553]

I think her character needs to be put in context.

She was abused af as a child, manipulated by a supernatural beings and we'll find out what just that entails soon.

She grew up and became infatuated with Raul, she did abuse him. Torture him amongst other things but again she was driven even more mad by the former love entity.

She killed anyone she didn't like including his friends and families all to have him to herself.


The question is how much agency did she have throughout.

Thr authors trying real hard to make her sympathetic right now but the question remains just how much of her personality and actions are really her?

 

[VielTheEnemy]

im NOT gonna be sad for current Victoria after seeing this,wrap it up author i ain't buying it💀✌🏻

 

[shion9]

Yeah logically there acting like her being drugged by the goddess and forcibly possessed into raping Raoul is her doing because…

“She liked Raoul”

Then ignore how the Goddess magic removes all self control from a person and isn’t something an ordinary mortal like Victoria can resist.

Victoria is literally getting compared to Hitler, other characters who have done much worse shit than her in this manga never got this much hate.

 

[Grailm]

And it's this kind of absolute rigid thinking that creates conflict and prevents people from understanding each other. In the real world, it also creates environments that stifles individuality, punishes people for being different, and creates a criminal justice system that is only interested in incarceration and discards reformation and correction.

Also, you are so wrapped up in your emotional response to Victoria that you can't even respond rationally. I have addressed everything you have an issue with yet you keep repeating the same items like a broken record.

Oh i understand. I understand what evil is and people who think we are all the same and anyone can be redeemed are people who just get crushed in life. Some people are beyond redemption and letting them out again and again just leads to more harm. Difference isnt always good, sometimes its incompatible if not downright harmful. Your idealized utopian way of thinking brings nothing but harm.

Keep on projecting.

 

[kimono]

I get both sides, but many people are missing the point of the author: Victoria was manipulated from her childhood by everyone she knew, and not one, but TWO Gods (the Love god by the Saintress and cat guy probably). Like other users said, the paralelism with Raoul are obvious (who was manipulated by everyone from the moment he set foot in this world) and probably the author will hammer it further.

Also, we're heading into a "revenge of the gods" phase, so Victoria acts as a friendly rival by a shonen logic (a villain from a past arc that comes back to join Raoul).

Also, fuck that kingdom, everyone was insane and evil what the hell.

Maybe i'm illiterate but this was not foreshadowed AT ALL before we got here, which makes me think author pulled this out of their ass.

It isn't, but Victoria is way too fun as a character: She's Raoul's enemy (she killed her sister, or ordered to), Raoul's lover, Raoul's rival lover (if you ship Theodora), and his foil all in one pack.

I hope he doesn't get head over heels (I still ship him with Theodora) but those two interacting is too fun.

Also, a revenge manga doing a redemption arc after 100 chapters is way too funny, just the reactions are priceless. Redo of a healer could never.

 

[Tsumi]

Oh i understand. I understand what evil is and people who think we are all the same and anyone can be redeemed are people who just get crushed in life. Some people are beyond redemption and letting them out again and again just leads to more harm. Difference isnt always good, sometimes its incompatible if not downright harmful. Your idealized utopian way of thinking brings nothing but harm.

Keep on projecting.

Nah. You need to have the open mind to evaluate based on the fictional world's merits and not be so narrowminded so as to be limited to our own. A serial killer might be irredeemable in our world regardless of circumstances, but certainly not in a world full of extreme deception and manipulation, where eternal life is possible, and the afterworld exists.

 

[theshet]

Humans can be programmed, conditioned to act in a determined way. The younger they are the easier to do. Lets see how the story goes, surely at some point we will see if it's genetic or epigenetic conditioning.

Epigenetic would be genetic in nature tbh. What you are referencing are the set genes she has being turned "off" or "on" in response to the enviromental factors. It would be exactly that in ANY case, especially when you consider twin studies with same sets of genes. That is what I mean by saying "it is a reason, not an excuse". The way she acts, the reason is all the things that happened (epigenetic in nature). But it doesn't excuse the action of acting on those feelings like she has done.

Ngl, my undergraduate degree is evolutionary biology, never in my life did I think I would discuss epigenetics in a manga forum lmao.

 

[Grailm]

Nah. You need to have the open mind to evaluate based on the fictional world's merits and not be so narrowminded so as to be limited to our own. A serial killer might be irredeemable in our world regardless of circumstances, but certainly not in a world full of extreme deception and manipulation, where eternal life is possible, and the afterworld exists.

Just destroy her soul like miss saint. Thats the mercy she deserves. Fuck it, just destroy this world. Humanity is so corrupt by the gods, that theres not enough pure humans in Raouls now ruined paradise to repopulate with.

 

[Tsumi]

Just destroy her soul like miss saint. Thats the mercy she deserves. Fuck it, just destroy this world. Humanity is so corrupt by the gods, that theres not enough pure humans in Raouls now ruined paradise to repopulate with.

So your answer to anything you don't like is to burn it all down. Seems productive.

 

[Flostirend]

Now you are just trying to say that everything is a matter of perspective. That there is no objective right and wrong. That Victoria and Theodora are practically the same, its just a matter of how you view things.

That type of moral wishy washiness is not good. You have to draw the line somewhere and Victoria is objectively wrong for what she did. No amount of saying, well by her perspective. All those people deserved what they got, even innocent villagers.

Fuck that. A few months to maybe a year of punishment does not equate to the numerous lives she had tortured and slain. Sorry or not, she has to pay the piper. She shouldnt get off early because of some sob story.

This isn't about redemption, this is about punishment. And as for redemption, i'm going to need to see a lot more from her to even consider it. No tragic background means anything towards redemption. You still did bad and you have to pay.

Absolution is just the first step to redemption. A long penitence will follow, often for the rest of the life. In the end is more beneficial for a society a sinner that pays for the crimes that one that just stays dead.

 

[Grailm]

So your answer to anything you don't like is to burn it all down. Seems productive.

With so few people, how much genetic diversity does Raoul have in his now ruined paradise. Not enough from what i see. On top of the fact the gods aren't going to let him do what he wants. This might as well be a daemonworld from 40k. This world is just fucked.

 

[Tsumi]

With so few people, how much genetic diversity does Raoul have in his now ruined paradise. Not enough from what i see. On top of the fact the gods aren't going to let him do what he wants. This might as well be a daemonworld from 40k. This world is just fucked.

So just burn it all down. Because the rules of our common sense apply to that world. Because an eternity isn't enough time to fix things. Because Raoul, despite killing two gods already, obviously doesn't have the power or cunning to defeat the remaining overly confident gods. Because the demon civilization obviously don't matter. Because there can't be other human settlements we haven't seen yet. Got it.

 

[Csabawars]

She nurtured to be curel.
As they say monsters not born. They are created. I dont mind if she get some type of redemtion. Ofc i still want raul to despise her but give her a chanche and add some guilt into the mix too.
(Lets face it the main culprit is the god of love. She would probably let the hero live happly if the godes not corrupt her .]