Fukushuu o Koinegau Saikyou Yuusha wa, Yami no Chikara de Senmetsu Musou Suru - Ch. 134

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I don't think Time Travel is a power in this universe, because it would cause so much inconsistency with the decision-making process of the entire story.

Most likely it's Raoul inserting himself into this illusion made from Vicky's memories. Maybe to prove a point about how easy it was to turn a literal child into an callous, uncaring monster if you extend your literal divine hand to her at the lowest point of her life.
Good idea that it's Raoul doing a test. Though I wonder what he would propose to her.

Vengeance? She's justified in seeking vengeance, and Raul himself chose (extreme!) vengeance.

Escape? Escape to a home with loving parents without constant threat of assassination? That would be somewhat similar to Theodora, who chose (and whom Raoul helped) to limit her vengeance (unlike Raoul)?
 
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You say this as if it in anyway annuls her of her actions. It does not and you know what you are trying to do by acting like she deserves a lighter sentence because of her way of thinking. That is no excuse and is just as stupid as people who get caught in a lie coming up with fanciful excuses as saying "I know what my truth is." Your word games aren't working.

Funny, I thought word games were what you're playing. Saying stuff that that explanation annuls anything, for example. Or bringing up Talking about fanciful lies? Aren't you just putting words in people's mouths or adding shit that isn't relevant?

I think it's really simple. She's already been punished for her crimes. Now it's simply a question of whether Raoul thinks its enough, it's not enough, or he doesn't actually believe in limited revenge in which case it doesn't matter.

And as readers, either we agree with whichever of the three things he chooses to go with, or we don't. Which we also can't yet because we don't know which he chose at this time. And even then, it will depend a lot on our personal beliefs about the scale and form of punishment and retribution.

Although I will say, I read some comment saying this isn't justified because her punishment's only been for months instead of years. I can't even imagine how that was quantified. Some people's personal beliefs probably aren't worth respecting, they're just what comes out whatever serves as figurative ass end of their brain.

Anyway we're not bloody talking about who's absolved of what, or whatever zero sum game you want to play so you can either hate her 100% or love her 100%, or some objective measure of punishment here. You're the one bandying about trying to be conclusive and definitive with an ever wider range and increasingly irrelevant bunch of 'words' thrown about.
 
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Good idea that it's Raoul doing a test. Though I wonder what he would propose to her.

Vengeance? She's justified in seeking vengeance, and Raul himself chose (extreme!) vengeance.

Escape? Escape to a home with loving parents without constant threat of assassination? That would be somewhat similar to Theodora, who chose (and whom Raoul helped) to limit her vengeance (unlike Raoul)?

I guess one good question is: "What do you want?". We've seen her terrible life, we've seen how everyone around her treats her. And now, when she's moments away from dying: what does child Victoria want? Would she respond with spite and hatred, that same child that just wanted to dance?
 
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what, is this time travel? or is it like Jigsaw having 10000 plans for things after he died?
 
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You say this as if it in anyway annuls her of her actions. It does not and you know what you are trying to do by acting like she deserves a lighter sentence because of her way of thinking. That is no excuse and is just as stupid as people who get caught in a lie coming up with fanciful excuses as saying "I know what my truth is." Your word games aren't working.
What word games? I didn't say anything about annulment. I said the punishment and how to treat the perpetrator changes depending on the motivations and circumstances of the perpetrator. Victoria is being shown as evil due to circumstances, not by nature like most of the other villains in this manga.

Returning to Theodora, she attempted murder and wasn't punished because Raoul deemed her circumstances redeeming enough (truthfully, he just used her grudges to justify his actions). By your standards, he should have sent her to hell for attempting evil because circumstances don't matter.
 
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I mean, it's not like it EXCUSES the horrible, awful things she did later on. Just kind of explaining that the Kingdom has always been a disgusting, awful, terrible place and why it produces people like Victoria. She's not magically excused, and she wasn't: she was literally crucified with insects eating her alive and brutally tortured and has now had all authority stripped from her. I think "she's an awful person who deserved her torture," and "anyways now let's see why she became so terrible and also we can do more with her as a character" can co-exist as concepts.
 
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What word games? I didn't say anything about annulment. I said the punishment and how to treat the perpetrator changes depending on the motivations and circumstances of the perpetrator. Victoria is being shown as evil due to circumstances, not by nature like most of the other villains in this manga.

Returning to Theodora, she attempted murder and wasn't punished because Raoul deemed her circumstances redeeming enough (truthfully, he just used her grudges to justify his actions). By your standards, he should have sent her to hell for attempting evil because circumstances don't matter.
There you go again. Making false equivalencies. Victoria killing innocent people like having Raouls entire village murdered, tortured, raped is not the same as Theodora killing a sick child murdering rapist. They are not comparable in who they chose to kill and you know it. Stop with the word games or do you actually believe this? Cause thats fucked up.
 
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what more do you want?
See around.
The popularly acceptable punishment are “death”, “lifetime in miserable state”, “prolonged excruciating physical and mental torture to make them regret even existing but not allowed any relief”.
It’s sadism that find a safe target, not justice that try to balance out what punishment is given according to what is done.

I honestly don't see the problem. Why are manga readers (honestly fantasy and sci fi in general as well) always so reluctant to change their opinions? You have to die on that hill where you either loved or hated a character since the start of a series.
Indeed. But there’s also another problem.

All these hatred towards story arc explaining villains’ background just made their conviction look weak.
If they don’t think she deserves any forgiveness, then knowing her background shouldn’t make them feel threatened. There’s no need to want to cover their eyes and ears from knowing more about the character when provided the chance.

what, is this time travel? or is it like Jigsaw having 10000 plans for things after he died?
Last time, the hell angels are peeking into Vicky’s past to understand more about how to deal with her for Raoul.
So we get the flashback arc.
 
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As said before, the only way to redeem the character is being mind controlled beyond her having any significant input in her own actions.
 
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There you go again. Making false equivalencies. Victoria killing innocent people like having Raouls entire village murdered, tortured, raped is not the same as Theodora killing a sick child murdering rapist. They are not comparable in who they chose to kill and you know it. Stop with the word games or do you actually believe this? Cause thats fucked up.
Wow, way to continue twisting everything. You're just mad that someone doesn't see things the way you do. You're so narrow-minded that anything that doesn't agree with you is inherently wrong, so you just keep twisting things in your mind until the original argument is unrecognizable. The point never has been whether or not Victoria deserved to be punished. The point was is Victoria a redeemable character, and if so, what level of atonement is appropriate for her crimes.

In her mind, Victoria was killing enemies. In Theodora's mind, she was trying to kill an enemy. Whether or not they were justified in viewing said people as the enemy is a different argument entirely, and can easily shift depending on circumstances and perspectives. Regardless, in this universe, the ultimate punishment is not merely an execution. Fates worse than death can be had while alive (i.e. Victoria's case where she was constantly being eaten alive by bugs) and punishments can and do continue in the afterlife as well.

IMO, this arc shows Victoria is someone that can be redeemed. Of course, she must be punished, atone for her misdeeds, and change herself to be redeemed, but she is not like the Saintess, her father, and others who are irredeemable. Even though the Saintess was manipulated by the Goddess of Love, for example, when she was confronted with reality, she sought to save herself by sacrificing others, thus making her irredeemable. So the real question, for me, is whether or not Victoria will take the steps towards being redeemed. Her backstory demands she be given a chance, but whether or not she can be forgiven in the end depends on the actions she takes next.
 
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You know what, i still don't condone what she has done. But It'd be lying if i said that if the World wasn't such a cesspool that a decent person there is as rare as a diamond, she may have turned out into a kind princess. Do hope that at the end of all this, Raoul commit a cosmic scale reset because even the Gods themselves are PoS
Sympathy is a hand extended to all.

Sympathy is neither redemption nor forgiveness. It does not wipe their sins and mistakes clean. It is the acknowledgement that whether good or bad, you're facing another human being, and recognize you're both experiencing life as it is.
 
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Maybe i'm illiterate but this was not foreshadowed AT ALL before we got here, which makes me think author pulled this out of their ass.
 

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