Munou to Yobareta "Seirei Tarashi" ~Jitsuwa Inou de, Seirei Kaide wa Densetsuteki Hero Deshita~ - Vol. 4 Ch. 20 - The Fate of Minister Gottsvan

[lolfacesayshi]

My whole point is that the spirits created a system in which they are enslaved.

How? The spirits are like neighbors, humans ask them nicely to do stuff and they help. Eventually some asshole learned that they'll still do it even without the niceties, and so on and so forth. It's not like all spirits are so servile as to engineer a society that enslaves them.

Spirits around Univas, sure, because he's a massive, beloved celebrity. Everyone else? The others that we saw? Sea spirits had to be corralled, caged, lied to, and basically threatened. Fire spirits in these machines rebelled against the fraud.

The gap between Japanese culture and ideals is truely mystifying. Almost as incomprehensible as the discussion about the gap between thigh high socks and a skirts hem.

Zettai Ryouiki is basically titillation. Some maintain less is more, some assert that more is more. And like everything else that's subjective, discussion about it is pointless if all sides are trying to assert their stance as the ultimate truth.

 

[Miserys_End]

Zettai Ryouiki is basically titillation. Some maintain less is more, some assert that more is more. And like everything else that's subjective, discussion about it is pointless if all sides are trying to assert their stance as the ultimate truth.

And the fact that is a thing is all the more incomprehensible to most outside Japanese culture.

 

[Samdobb]

Last chapter I had to realization that if spirits were involved with the creation of humans they directly created the entire culture that suppresses and mistreats them. Every bad thing that the humans do is partially the spirit's faults because they let humans develop a culture where they can do those things. And one of the earlier chapters there was slavery. The spirits let that happen. The entire traditional ceremony where a spirit basically make themselves a slave to a human was allowed to develop by the spirits. Did not even been a single spirit in the thousands of years say no to anything the humans do?

Okay take a look at what we read so far, does it seem like anyone or anything in this world have the ability to critically think about things?

 

[hurafloyd]

This manga is such a master”piece of trash”.

Binge read it in a morning, give me more trash.

 

[pandatime]

Hey man gotta hand it to Gottsvan for one thing.
guy acutalyl did admit it
meanwhile mr Hero....

 

[galaxia9]

Some good comeuppance. Not just public humiliation but self confessed public humiliation.

 

[Grikath]

And the fact that is a thing is all the more incomprehensible to most outside Japanese culture.

Ummm... Miniskirts + thigh high boots in the 60's, Hotpants + thigh highs in the early '80's, the return of the Miniskirt + thigh highs/thigh high boots in the 90's/noughties, etc. etc....

And that's mainstream fashion.... Not even touching fetish-related stuffz...

Nooooo... absolutely incomprehensible in western fashion for....decades... 😋

 

[vhr2121]

Hopeless to the very end this guy was... BRUH.

 

[Nitrouse]

Last chapter I had to realization that if spirits were involved with the creation of humans they directly created the entire culture that suppresses and mistreats them. Every bad thing that the humans do is partially the spirit's faults because they let humans develop a culture where they can do those things. And one of the earlier chapters there was slavery. The spirits let that happen. The entire traditional ceremony where a spirit basically make themselves a slave to a human was allowed to develop by the spirits. Did not even been a single spirit in the thousands of years say no to anything the humans do?

Now take your time with your own take and think about the Waiters in the US. And when you're done i want to hear your conclusion

 

[GreenDude1]

Now take your time with your own take and think about the Waiters in the US. And when you're done i want to hear your conclusion

Waiters didn't take part in the creation of humanity. Waiters don't have elemental powers. Waiters need money to buy Food and Spirits don't need that. There is literally nothing that's stopping the spirits from just leaving considering most people can't even see spirits unless they're very high ranked spirits.

 

[Miserys_End]

Ummm... Miniskirts + thigh high boots in the 60's, Hotpants + thigh highs in the early '80's, the return of the Miniskirt + thigh highs/thigh high boots in the 90's/noughties, etc. etc....

And that's mainstream fashion.... Not even touching fetish-related stuffz...

Nooooo... absolutely incomprehensible in western fashion for....decades... 😋

It's not the fashion trend that is that is incomprehensible. It is the religious fervor that otaku hold twords that gap that mystifies outsiders.

Nothing more weird then a couple of otaku nerding out over the perfect ratio of sock height, to exposed thigh, to skirt length in a completely nonsexual manner...

 

[essensue]

My whole point is that the spirits created a system in which they are enslaved.

Its not that you are wrong in that they allowed it to happen, i just feel the spirits were blindsided by humans propensity to enshitify everything they touch. Humans felt so emboldened by the Spirits passivity that over time just dropped any pretense of actual familial fealty. From there the rituals were twisted into what they are now. So yes the Spirits allowed it to happen, but it was the humans that twisted the spirits love into something corrupted.

Basically this, with a reminder that the whole thing is a really strained metaphor for parenthood:

When you have kids, you're willingly signing up for a lifetime of putting someone else's needs ahead of your own.

I like it from the standpoint that it explains the dumb and alien concept of spirit servitude in the context of a very human emotion. But it obviously falls apart because it takes a very intimate parent-child relationship and stretch it across countless generations of removal and challenges like "most people can't even see or interact with minor spirits." (I think? I forget the lore.) Yeah, I'm sure you can make metaphorical arguments like "well parents' sacrifices for their children are just as invisible to them" or "what if the natural resources we exploited had feelings and cute little faces."

But it doesn't change the fact that those metaphorical "parents" are now more like estranged exes who manage to pay child support, and telling the average human that the spirits serve them out of a sense of family is like telling a non-Christian that Jesus loves them very much.

 

[Miserys_End]

Basically this, with a reminder that the whole thing is a really strained metaphor for parenthood:

When you have kids, you're willingly signing up for a lifetime of putting someone else's needs ahead of your own.

I like it from the standpoint that it explains the dumb and alien concept of spirit servitude in the context of a very human emotion. But it obviously falls apart because it takes a very intimate parent-child relationship and stretch it across countless generations of removal and challenges like "most people can't even see or interact with minor spirits." (I think? I forget the lore.) Yeah, I'm sure you can make metaphorical arguments like "well parents' sacrifices for their children are just as invisible to them" or "what if the natural resources we exploited had feelings and cute little faces."

But it doesn't change the fact that those metaphorical "parents" are now more like estranged exes who manage to pay child support, and telling the average human that the spirits serve them out of a sense of family is like telling a non-Christian that Jesus loves them very much.

Think it's only the lesser spirits that normally can't be seen. The Well Spirit was revered by and held discussions with the people in the village, and greater spirits acted more like politicians, diplomats, and or advisors. So lots of people see spirits and many even worship them, it just seems that the Goverments of the different nations have a twisted view of what their relationship should entail.

 

[jagfanbb]

My head canon is that he almost died from hunger but then he learned to farm from a kind old man. The old man's kindness broke something in him and he cried till he passed out that night. After learning everything from the old man that he could, he set off to start his own farm. Gets fucking shredded. Marries a wholesome firecracker tomboy. He has 9 kids like Phillip Rivers, 3 dogs, and 6.75 (one's a tripod) cats. He dies happy, surrounded by his loved onesz and quietly thanks Univas and the spirits for setting him on his true rightful path.

 

[lolfacesayshi]

It's not the fashion trend that is that is incomprehensible. It is the religious fervor that otaku hold twords that gap that mystifies outsiders.

Nothing more weird then a couple of otaku nerding out over the perfect ratio of sock height, to exposed thigh, to skirt length in a completely nonsexual manner...

Guess you've never seen coffee geeks talk about their coffee blend ratio. Or cooks, etc etc etc. Humans can get needlessly passionate about nearly anything.

Also does that even actually happen IRL? That sounds like something you see in anime and manga, based on behavior in online chatrooms and forums. Typical nerdery, basically.

 

[RanginAswati]

Man, the fire spirits had no chill